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I have a fixed Hamburger Mietvertrag for 2,5 more years, but…

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Good day! I have a...
Good day! I have a fixed Hamburger Mietvertrag for 2,5 more years, but i found a new job in Berlin and moving there in March 2018. I am looking for nachmeiter now, as my vermieter told me it’s my responsibility and only in this case i can get out of the Contract. Is this correct? Or moving to another city because of Job is an exception?
I also tried to sign with him Kündigung paper, but he denied. I wonder, whether I should still send it to his post address as Eingeschriebener brief mit rückschein? And what happens if his address has changed or fake?
Also I would like to ask: when i find nachmieter, shall the period of his rent cover my 2,5 years? Because I have a feeling that my vermieter would want 1-year Contract..can it still be done and can i still get out of my future responsibility for find the 2nd nachmieter? What papers do i require for this process?
Thank you very much for your answer in advance!
Ekaterina Vlasova.
Submitted: 4 months ago.Category: German Law
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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
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12/11/2017
Lawyer: hhvgoetz, Rechtsanwalt, LL.M. replied 4 months ago
hhvgoetz
hhvgoetz, Rechtsanwalt, LL.M.
Category: German Law
Satisfied Customers: 3,037
Experience: LL.M. in International Trade Law (Newcastle upon Tyne, UK)
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Hi,

the contract in case of a residential flat can only be fixed up to a total of 4 years and only if both parties are not allowed to terminate.

Please show the exact wording of this part of the contract in order to check whether it is valid.

However, there is no general exception to get out because of a new job.

The landlord ist not obliged to accept a Nachmieter. You have to check with him what criteria the Nachmieter has to meet in order to have a chance that he will accept him.

Regards

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
Good day!Thank you for the answer.
The contract is attached.
So far i understood that moving to another city is not a reason. But i also was asking, whether I need to get a Nachmieter for the period, that I have left in my contract. Or will it be fine, if my Vermieter decides to make with new Nachmieter the Contract only for 1 year? Is there any paper I need to sign with Vermieter, that frees me from my Contract conditions, as soon as i find the Nachmieter?
Lawyer: hhvgoetz, Rechtsanwalt, LL.M. replied 4 months ago

Hi,

the clause for the fixed time lease is invalid, because there is no valid reason estipulated in the contract, see § 575 BGB.

https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_bgb/englisch_bgb.html#p2316

Thus, you can terminate then contract in written form (with signature) at the latest on the third working day of a calendar month to the end of the second month thereafter (see § 573c BGB).

Make sure to be able to prove reception of the document on time.

Hand it over personally with a witness, keep a copy.

If you use a certified letter, have someone to witness WHAT you sent.

In addition you miight use a FAX which prints a copy of the first sent page on the receipt.

Regards

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Lawyer: hhvgoetz, Rechtsanwalt, LL.M. replied 4 months ago

In case you get sued, don't hesitate to contact me as I am also located in HH.

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
Sorry, i don't understand this quite correct "the clause for the fixed time lease is invalid, because there is no valid reason estipulated in the contract, see § 575 BGB." - this means that my reason of moving to another city is not a reason for stopping the contract, correct? So I HAVE to find Nachmieter anyway, right? Otherwise I have to pay for the rest of 2,5 years?Regarding the kuendigung letter: i already tried to handle it personally, but he denied. So i want to send it via post with the signature on receive. Will this be enough?
What happens if he changed the address, but doesn't want to tell me one? The letter will be sent back to me by the post then.And again: i also was asking, whether I need to get a Nachmieter for the period, that I have left in my contract. Or will it be fine, if my Vermieter decides to make with new Nachmieter the Contract only for 1 year? Is there any paper I need to sign with Vermieter, that frees me from my Contract conditions, as soon as i find the Nachmieter?
Lawyer: hhvgoetz, Rechtsanwalt, LL.M. replied 4 months ago

You just terminate the contract within the period stated in § 573c (around 3 months).

The fixed time lease is NOT valid. Please READ the law I linked!

You don't need to look for any Nachmieter.

Explain this to your landlord. If you want to be nice, offer him to help to find a Nachmieter, but you are not obliged to do so.

You don't need to sign anything, just make the termination note arrive at time. If you send it via mail, make sure to have a witness who has seen WHAT you have put in the envelope.

It is of not much use to have proof from the post company that you sent an envelope (of unknown content).

You send the letter to the address mentioned in the contract.

Use in addition FAX if you got the number.

If the address is invalid, try to get a witness when he refuses to give the address to you.

Good luck!

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
Thank you very much!
Two more clarifications, please:
- it is mentioned in the law that the contract can be fixed in time, if the owner plans reconstruction in the flat. So if my Vermieter invents this kind of reason, is it a problem for me? Or should have he told me/written in Contract that before, when we signed the actual contract, so now this reason would be invalid?
- do i need a witness only when i prepare the letter and place it in the brief, or to go with me directly to the post office? Does the post office in this case also need to be a witness?Thank you again!
Customer reply replied 4 months ago
One more important notice to give on that: as i was a foreigner and didn't have a big knowledge in this process, my Vermieter convinced me to pay him every month in cash instead of bank transfer. I didn't have a choice that time, because it's very difficult to find a flat in Hamburg, when you have 1500,- brutto salary. So I agreed. Which makes me think that he is actually in a much worse position by law, than me, right? And if he decide to go to court, he will get in trouble and not me?
Lawyer: hhvgoetz, Rechtsanwalt, LL.M. replied 4 months ago

§ 575 states that the reason has to be estipulated in written form before the contract is signed, please carefully read again the law.

The post office will in any case only certify (if you choose some kind of Einschreiben) that they gave the envelope to him, nothing about the content. Thus, you'll always need a witness to be sure unless you use a FAX with a qualified receipt where you can see, what was sent.

If things are done the right way having proof of having terminated the contract at time, the landlord will be in trouble.

However quite likely the landlord may rise some issue about Schönheitreparaturen or damages in the apartment (because of fury). I highly recommend to document the state of the apartment with a witness and photos. It may be important to have some kind of witness of how it was when you moved in.

Thus, be nice to him, try to explain the legal basis and offer to help with a Nachmieter beyond any legal obligation.

Regards

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
Understood. Thank you very much.
Would you please let me know, what papers should I sign with my Vermieter, when there is a new Nachmieter found? Something like Cancellation of the Flat Contract?As i already lost one month notice, because he denied to accept my paper, does it mean that if I sent the letter today, officially i would need to pay for March 2018 as well? What happens, if there is already a new Nachmieter, who also pays for March 2018..can my Vermieter accept both payments by law?Thank you again.
Lawyer: hhvgoetz, Rechtsanwalt, LL.M. replied 4 months ago

You don't have to sign anything except your own termination notice.

Yes, you may have lost March 2018. However, state in the new termination letter that he refused to receive it at time knowing that it was the terminaation and that you cannot be held responsible for that and thus should only have to pay February.

Always also ask in the alternative that you whish termination for the next possible date.

"Hilfsweise kündige ich zum nächstmöglichen Zeitpunkt."

If you have a witness for the situation he denied the termination, you won't have trouble at court.

In case you get a Nachmieter and he will let you out before March, of course you can sign such a paper as long as it does not contain anything else you don't understand...

However, this shall be signed, when you got the Nachmieter. Beforehand, I don't see much use of any paper...

Of course your landlord cannot ask for damages for the March rent if he gets it from someone else. Anyhow, you will have to prove at court that it was rent to someone else and that he got the money.

Regards.

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
Thank you! "Hilfsweise kündige ich zum nächstmöglichen Zeitpunkt" would not work in my case, because I wish to be out only in March 2018 and not earlier. Right?
I totally understand that I should sign the paper, only when the Nachmieter is found. That's why I was asking, what kind of paper it should be? regular Mietaufhebungsvertrag?
Lawyer: hhvgoetz, Rechtsanwalt, LL.M. replied 4 months ago

The other way round:

"Hiermit kündige ich die Wohnung zu Ende Februar 2018. Hilfsweise..."

The hilfweise clause is thought for case he does not let you out by the end of February and you cannot prove having terminated at time at the beginning of December. This time you will be out by the end of March and the lease contract will not just go on because of an invalid termination.

Regards

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Lawyer: hhvgoetz, Rechtsanwalt, LL.M. replied 4 months ago

If you find a Nachmieter he accepts, it will be a "Mietaufhebungsvertrag".

However, look at the content. You can put "Mietaufhebungsvertrag" on anything.

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
Thank you so much! Could you please have a look at the attachment, whether it's fine like this?
Is there any advice you could give me, while i would be filling in the Mietaufhebungsvertrag? Or is it fine if i send it to you for the check, when i fill it in?
Lawyer: hhvgoetz, Rechtsanwalt, LL.M. replied 4 months ago

Oben OK...

"Da Sie sich am XX.XX.17 weigerten, meinen Kündigungsbrief entgegen zu nehmen und ihn rechtzeitig zu unterschreiben, wissend, dass es die Kündigung war, ist die Kündigung Ihnen dennoch rechtzeitig zugegenagen. Daher muss nur den Februar 2018 als letzten Monat meiner Miete bezahlen.

....

Ich bitte um eine schriftliche Bestätigung der Kündigung (unten)."

Mietaufhebungsvertag: Don't sign anything you don't understand. In case of doubt, send it over...

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
Thank you again!
So it's actually the responsibility of Vermieter to fill it in, when we meet in the flat to handle it to another Nachmieter?
Does it mean that within 2-3 months I can still contact you and send you the Mietaufhebungsvertag for check?And one more question regarding Schönheitreparaturen or damages in the apartment: is he actually able to hold more than the deposit that I gave him (1000,-) ? How does he evaluate the damage? I didnt make any photos when I moved in, but the flat had some obvious damages (old windows, old paint on pipes, some yellow spots on the walls etc.) He is a very sly person and I want to be ready for any of his tricks.
Lawyer: hhvgoetz, Rechtsanwalt, LL.M. replied 4 months ago

You'll be able to contact me under here later in case of any doubt.

You legally just have to terminate the contract. The rest is the landlord's business. If you help him, nice.

You actually don't have to sign anything.

Schönheitsreparaturen:

If he did not give the apartment to you in a completely renovated state, you don't have to do anything except from fixing things you have broken. Of course he can sue you for more than the 1000 Euros if there is any severe damage. He would have to sue you if he wants more than 1000 Euros. You will have to go to court if you want the 1000 back and he does not pay you...

Usually when you receive the apartment, an "Übergabeprotokoll" is made. If not, it is obvious that you might have to argue with him about the state of the apartment and possible witnesses will play an important role.

Good luck.

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
Thank you very much! I will send the letter by post today with my witness and hope that he receives it.
I think I have to do this without letting him know in advance, otherwise he denies to take the letter.
I will update you later if it's the case.
Thank you again a lot!
Customer reply replied 4 months ago
You said that I would be able to contact you later, but does it mean that I would have to make one more payment?
Im don't understand how the payment system works here, to be honest. They charged me 65,- already.
Lawyer: hhvgoetz, Rechtsanwalt, LL.M. replied 4 months ago

Use this URL. You can continue writing here even after rating me.

Without rating me, I don't receive any compensation.

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
do I understand right that 65,- euro is a flat compensation for your help in this particular issue of mine? It's not monthly or per question etc.?
And that I could proceed with rating you right now (so you could get the compensation), but I still would be able to ask you questions within the next 2-3 months without extra payments?
Lawyer: hhvgoetz, Rechtsanwalt, LL.M. replied 4 months ago

If your question relates to the termination issue it is of no extra charge.

I know that JA has some monthy prepaid model. In case of doubt, check with JA support as I have no access to your data. I am actualy a mere user of JA just like you who happens to be a lawyer being able to answer your question...

Regards

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
Thank you. Just wrote them as well. lets see what they say:)
Lawyer: hhvgoetz, Rechtsanwalt, LL.M. replied 4 months ago

Ok, see you later.

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
Hi again:) i just wonder, which version by the post suits me the most..:
Bei der Zusatzleistung Rückschein senden wir Ihnen die handschriftliche Bestätigung der Auslieferung durch den Empfänger als Original zurück.
Bei der Zusatzleistung Eigenhändig wird das Einschreiben nur dem Empfänger persönlich oder einem zum Empfang besonders Bevollmächtigten ausgehändigt.
Das Einschreiben Einwurf ist eine Lösung für diejenigen, denen eine Bestätigung der Zustellung durch die Deutsche Post genügt. Das Einschreiben Einwurf wird in den Briefkasten, das Postfach oder eine andere Empfangsvorrichtung des Empfängers eingelegt und der Zusteller bestätigt das durch seine Unterschrift.Or is it better to order courier even?Thank you!
Lawyer: hhvgoetz, Rechtsanwalt, LL.M. replied 4 months ago

Einwurf is actually sufficient. But make sure to get the confirmation that it was thrown in. The post tends to delete the relevant data after one year (which may be a problem in a lawsuit years later).

Rückschein has the advantage that you get the confirmation automatically, but it's more expensive.

You can also just go to the mailbox with a witness...

Don't waste money in a courier.

Regards

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
Thank you so much for your nice answer. I was thinking that i HAVE to get the confirmation back that the Vermieter received my letter and also signed for it. I didn't know that simply throwing into mailbox or Einwurf is enough..
Lawyer: hhvgoetz, Rechtsanwalt, LL.M. replied 4 months ago

Having him sign the letter just eliminates all the hassle of proving reception. But if he won't... you'll have to rely on mail confirmation and the witness for the content.

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
Ok. So actually the witness of the CONTENT from my side and the confirmation from the post of someone (him or his girlfriend?), receiving the letter, is enough? So getting his signature on "receiving confirmation" is better, but not necessary?
Lawyer: hhvgoetz, Rechtsanwalt, LL.M. replied 4 months ago

Correct.

Who is whose girlfriend? Did't quite get the point.

Just get the paper from the mail (Rückschein or confirmation of the Einwurf you'll have to ask for if you did Einwurf-Einschreiben) and let a witness (preferibly not your boyfriend or family member) watch the content of the envelope as you close it and send it away.

That's it.

The confirmation of the landlord renders all the above unnecessary.

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
Sorry. I meant what if in the flat of my Vermieter his girlfriend lives too (thats what i know)?
And then when the post arrives, she will decide to sign for it. Will this be valid for me as well?
Lawyer: hhvgoetz, Rechtsanwalt, LL.M. replied 4 months ago

If she is not co-proprietor of the apartment, he should sign unless he states that her signature is OK or she regularly does administrative work for the apartment.

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
Ok, so the post will follow this rule. Good to know.
Thank you again!
Lawyer: hhvgoetz, Rechtsanwalt, LL.M. replied 4 months ago

Ok, see U later.

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
Good morning! (sorry, i still don't know your name)
yesterday I sent the post letter with witness to my Vermieter and also wrote him email with all the details we discussed with you.
But I also would like to be ready for a meeting with him, as he is very complicated person to communicate to.
I wanted to ask one moment, if you dont mind: as i mentioned before, he asked me to make monthly payments in cash all these three years. Only once, when i was on vacation, i transfered him the money via bank per his request, but he asked to transfer only half of the amount, the rest he asked to give in cash. I understood that he is trying to avoid paying bigger taxes, that is why he was not happy that in the comment of my transfer i wrote "half rental payment". So we both understand that he is not an honest person. But I had no choice, as my salary was too low to find another flat. So I paid cash all the time. Without any witnesses or paper confirmations (only whatsapp or emails).Does it mean that it's in his interests not to make this situation (of me leaving the flat) reach the court? Will he be in trouble if it happens? Or will I be in trouble as well?Thank you in advance for the answer!
Katya.
Lawyer: hhvgoetz, Rechtsanwalt, LL.M. replied 4 months ago

Hi,

my name is Olaf.

Most likely the court will not be interested in any tax issues unless you file it a the Finanzamt. However, you won't gain anything.

In case he makes trouble paying back the 1000 € you should make clear, that you are willing to go to the Finanzamt (do not openly put it under the condition of him not paying).

Save WhatsApp Chats and E-Mails just in case...

Regards

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
Hi Olaf,Thank you very much for the information.
If he declines signing the paper for me, I can still avoid paying him the rent until he signs it?
Lawyer: hhvgoetz, Rechtsanwalt, LL.M. replied 4 months ago

Nope, this at least wouldn't be legal. He can sue you for the rent.

You'll have to know if you give it a try.

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
Ok, so even when denies to sign in front of my "hidden" witness, I still should pay my rent as earlier? Or shall I thins time transfer the full amount on his bank account?
And it means after his denial to sign, I have to start court process? there is no other way around the court anymore after that?
Lawyer: hhvgoetz, Rechtsanwalt, LL.M. replied 4 months ago

You move out, he will have to start court proceedings in order to get your rent.

However he might keep the 1000 Euros.

Thus, you may consider to deduct it from the rent although this is illegal.

Regards

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
Understood. Thank you.
But it would be legal if without his signature on this paper, I still simply move our at the end of February and dont pay him more rent? (maybe he keeps those 1000 euros). Or do I have to pay for March as well, as I sent that paper per post only yesterday? (even though i mentioned on the paper, that i tried to handle him the paper earlier..but i had no witnesses for that).
Lawyer: hhvgoetz, Rechtsanwalt, LL.M. replied 4 months ago

This wouldn't be legal. However, what is the consequence: He could terminate the contract, and that's what you want.

He may sue you to get the 1000 € deposit back until he knows about possible damages in the apartment and necessary payments of heating or water (Nachzahlungen). The question is if he will really do it...

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
termination and keeping deposit is maximum he can do? Or maybe asking for more money if he points into more damages, that I didn't do (old windows, pipes etc.), but I have no photos that the flat was like that when I moved in.
But he can not sure me for not paying him the rent, starting from March, right? Even if he didn't sign the Termination paper..He is very unpredictable and strange in logic, that's why Im trying to be ready for anything, when I meet him next time.
So if I simply move out, I would still need to meet him and handle the key etc. Let's see how he reacts, I suggested him to meet this or next week latest for this Kuendigung paper procedure.
Lawyer: hhvgoetz, Rechtsanwalt, LL.M. replied 4 months ago

If you can prove that you tried to give the Kündigung to him before the third working day of december and that he refused to accept it, termination is valid by the end of February.

If just your new termination letter can be proven to have arrived, thet contract will be terminated by the end of March.

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
Got it. Thank you very much. Will keep you updated, if you don't mind:)
Lawyer: hhvgoetz, Rechtsanwalt, LL.M. replied 4 months ago

Ok, see you.

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
Good day, Olaf!I have a question if you dont mind: if my Vermieter signs my Kuendigung paper (i will meet him this week) and releases me from March 2018, do I still need to sign with him now Mietaufhebungsvertag or it's only signed when I am giving away the flat at the end of February?Thank you!
Lawyer: hhvgoetz, Rechtsanwalt, LL.M. replied 4 months ago

If he accepts the Kündigung fot the date you desire, I don't quite get why you should need am Aufhebungsvertrag?!

You need an Aufhebungsvertag to get out of the contract before time...

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
Ok, understood. Thank you!
Lawyer: hhvgoetz, Rechtsanwalt, LL.M. replied 4 months ago

This all depends whether he accepts the reception on time of the first Kündigung you were not able to deliver.

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
Dear Olaf, can my Vermieter also send me signed document per Fax? Or i need only the original?
Lawyer: hhvgoetz, Rechtsanwalt, LL.M. replied 4 months ago

To confirm reception and termination of the contract it should be sufficient as long as your Kündigung arrived in written form as the law asks for written form in such a case.

If you agree in a contract to do it in written form (no legal obligatioN), FAX ist usually sufficient, see § 127 II BGB and § 568 BGB.

https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_bgb/englisch_bgb.html#p0385

https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_bgb/englisch_bgb.html#p2245

Regards

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
I sent the first version per post as printed with my signature by hand. Was it wrong? Shall i send him a new version, fully in written by hand form?
Lawyer: hhvgoetz, Rechtsanwalt, LL.M. replied 4 months ago

Perfect... This in no testament. Signature is sufficient!

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
Ok. Thank you. So Vermieter could print my signed copy, sign it and send me fax back?
Lawyer: hhvgoetz, Rechtsanwalt, LL.M. replied 4 months ago

Exactly.

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
Thank you! I have no idea why he doesn't want to sign it. The letter is laying at his post office (because he was not at home), but for 2 days more maximum, and then the letter gets back to me.
I can't even persuade him to meet me and sign the paper, or to send it by post, or by fax.
Even though I already found him Nachmieter and he signed Contract with him today morning.
Lawyer: hhvgoetz, Rechtsanwalt, LL.M. replied 4 months ago

If he already signed a contract with him, you should again try to have a chat that he lets you out via an Aufhebungsvertrag. In the end, it does not matter, as long as he does not establish any extra conditions in the contract...

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
Will this one work?
Lawyer: hhvgoetz, Rechtsanwalt, LL.M. replied 4 months ago

Wo did write this?

§3

Might be a problem a Schönheitsreparaturen have been agreed but the clause in the original contract might be invalid if the apartent was not renovated when you received it.

In the Aufhebungsvertrag you then may still have to do the Shönheitsreparaturen. The next phrase stating that the apartment has to be in the same state as received may be contradictory of it was handed over not renovated. Why not explicitly put down WHAT exactly you have to do.

§6

I don't understand. Maybe "... vom Mieter ZU ÜBERNEHMEN."?!

§7

Don't understand, what this is about. It is not filled out.

§8

Something is missing there (gemäß what)?

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
Thank you!
3 - wrote the details
6 - yes, you are right:)
7, 8 - removedI took the easier template as an example, some of them were too complicated and detailed.
But I didn't miss something important, right?
Lawyer: hhvgoetz, Rechtsanwalt, LL.M. replied 4 months ago

Ok, good luck!

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
hopefully finally ...thank you!
Lawyer: hhvgoetz, Rechtsanwalt, LL.M. replied 4 months ago

You're welcome.

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
Hi Olaf, attached is the document that my Vermieter just sent me via fax. Will this work as the confirmation form his side?
Lawyer: hhvgoetz, Rechtsanwalt, LL.M. replied 4 months ago

This is gonna work out IF the new guy moves in.

If some problems arrise, he may cause trouble again.

And obviously there is no agreement about the Kaution. However, he will have to pay it back if there are no other claims.

So keep proof of reception of your termination note just in case...

Good luck!

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
Hi Olaf,but i dont have this proof, because the letter ended up in the post office and now will be returned back to me, i guess.
so i am still in the risk then, if the new nachmieter changes his mind or something happens to him..
Lawyer: hhvgoetz, Rechtsanwalt, LL.M. replied 4 months ago

Exactly!

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
Good day, Olaf! I hope you have a nice start into 2018:)Tomorrow lunch time i meet my Vermieter and will try to sign with him the same paper he sent me by fax, but without mentioning the condition of having new Nachmieter moving in. I asked my friend to be there as a witness in case Vermieter declines to sign it again. But can my friend me a "hidden" witness? I mean do I have to tell/reveal my Vermieter about such person being there. Is it fine to hide it?
Lawyer: hhvgoetz, Rechtsanwalt, LL.M. replied 3 months ago

If he is there, he is there. What will your landlord do about it? Nothing!

If he declines to sign it, bad luck.

Is there any problem with the Nachmieter?

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
I just wanted my witness simply to sit at the nearby table and hear everything.
And if my Vermieter signs the paper, I don't need to mention the witness and spoil our communication with him this way even more right at the beginning. Will it be according to the law, if i don't reveal the witness, but he is here?
There should not be a problem with Nachmieter, as I was told by both of them that they signed the Contract. But anything can happen..what if he changes his mind. That's why I want to be safe.
Lawyer: hhvgoetz, Rechtsanwalt, LL.M. replied 3 months ago

It is illegal to have someone listen to a private conversation without the other knowing it.

You will have to present him. But if he does not sign it, I don't see any use of the witness.

The witness needs is useful to prove reception of a termination notice issued by you.

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
Thank you.
I thought i need a witness, who can also see and prove the fact that my Vermieter denied to sign the Kuendigung paper.
Ok, then I make it visible that I have a friend there.
Lawyer: hhvgoetz, Rechtsanwalt, LL.M. replied 3 months ago

But what you received via Fax is not a Kündigung which he has not to sign. You just have to prove that he received it on time.

What you received via Fax is the confirmation that he will let you out even without a valid termination notice (Kündigung).

He is not obliged to sign such a paper...

Regards

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
Good day, Olaf!
Ok, understood. Thank you. So it has to be only my Termination paper, dated at the end of November, which he has to sign below.
Lawyer: hhvgoetz, Rechtsanwalt, LL.M. replied 3 months ago

Yes, but this will only be of use if you can prove that he has received it before the third working day of december. This is what he should confirm or just let you out of the contract without conditions.

In any way I highly doubt that he will do any of that if there are problems with the Nachmieter.

Regards

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
if i understand correct I have two options:
- ask him to sign my Kuendigung paper, dated before the third working day of december
- you wrote ".. or just let you out of the contract without conditions" - does it mean that he can still write me the confirmation paper, like the one he sent by fax, but without mentioning the condition of having Nachmieter?
Customer reply replied 3 months ago
Good day again! So finally he signed my Kuendigung paper, dated by the end of November. It was complicated, but he did it.
I have another question: he now mentioned to me that he is not sure that he can be presented at the keys-exchange with the new Nachmieter. Does he actually have to be there by law? Do I meet the new Nachmieter myself then and give the keys or do I have to send the keys to Nachmieter and he should take of this in this case?
Lawyer: hhvgoetz, Rechtsanwalt, LL.M. replied 3 months ago

Cool.

No he does not have to be present. But make sure to well document the state of the apartment with fotos.

This is what a "Wohnungsübergabeprotokoll" is for so U don't forget any room.

Take a witness with you.

Good luck!

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
Will do. Thank you!
I just noticed that Wohnungsübergabeprotokoll has three signatures: Vermieter, Mieter and Witness. And some sites are saying that Vermieter has to be presented as well (https://www.immobilienscout24.de/anbieten/private-anbieter/lexikon-vermieten/wohnungsabnahme-wohnungsuebergabe.html). Does it mean that i simply cross out "Vermieter" and place "Nachmieter" instead?
Lawyer: hhvgoetz, Rechtsanwalt, LL.M. replied 3 months ago

You should have some provable (in best case written signee by him confirmation) from the Vermieter that he wishes to be absent...

This way he cannot declare later that he did not wnat it that way.

As soon as you have neutral witnesses for the state of the apartment in detail at the day of handover (Übergabe), it is all not much of a deal.

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Lawyer: hhvgoetz, Rechtsanwalt, LL.M. replied 3 months ago

Just put in that the Vermieter wished not to be present and keep the Protokoll in case he wants to see it.

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
ok, thank you very much!
Lawyer: hhvgoetz, Rechtsanwalt, LL.M. replied 3 months ago

You're welcome...

Just try to make clear in case of later hassle that it was the way your landlord wanted it and that the state of everything can be proven at the time you handed the apartment over...

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