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My last name is Nobile. My father born in northern Italy. I…

My last name is...

My last name is Nobile. My father born in northern Italy. I have a genetic mutation that comes from Jewish gene mutation that only expresses when both parents have mutation. Is Nobile a Jewish name?

Expert's Assistant: I did a little digging into my family history: we have a lot of dead eccentric Brits in our family tree. I hope you find some fascinating characters in yours. Please tell me everything you can so the Genealogist can help you best.

I know my great grandfather was called u Vesco, a title. I found its Hebrew meaning was teacher or bishop. My father and grandfather were agnostic.

Expert's Assistant: Is there anything else important you think the Genealogist should know?

Many traditions seemed more Jewish than Italian. My grandfather marrried his niece. We lit candles on what I thought was a big candalabra but I was young. It looked like a menorah. I have to be Jewish to have these genetic mutations. My older sisters have different mutations than I but it runs in Jewish genetics.

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8/16/2018
A. Schuyler
A. Schuyler, Genealogist
Category: Genealogy
Satisfied Customers: 16,629
Experience: Researcher and genealogist for past 30 years
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Hello,

Welcome to our site and thanks for your question. My name is ***** ***** I will do whatever I can to try to help you.

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
I want to know if the surname Nobile was used by Crypto Jews that fled to Italy from somewhere during the Jewish diaspora. We were not brought up in any religion or spiritual beliefs. But the intermarriage, among everyone in the small northern mountain village of Cariseto all marry first cousins or incestual. They have a Cemetery full of babies that were born and died within days. The cemetery goes back to 1840’s. My grandmother had 12 pregnancies and only 4 survived. The village is very small and before cars it took 7 days to go down the mountain in the Apennines mountain range. Genetics has been cruel to all of us 12 grandchildren. I did not have children. My sisters have 6 children between them and as many grandchildren. We can hardly believe they kept this from us. Considering these mutations could manifest in the grands and greatgrands I am trying to ascertain if we are Jewish.....well, we have to be because I have a rare disorder known almost exclusively in Jewish race. I just found out my mother is Half Jewish. I guess I am having an identity crisis at 66 years old. My father’s name was August Anthony Nobile ( Americanized). My grandfather was Agosto Giovanni Nobile married to Pietrina Bermin Nobile and great grandfather was Antonio Troglio Nobile (u vesco) who married Antonia Troglio. That’s all I know. They had 7 children, my great grandfather and all 6 sons were Freemasons. My father was a 32 degree Freemason. The Masons in Italy sponsored them,starting in 1906, to immigrate to New Orleans. That’s where I grew up. Am I Jewish more than Italian, if at all Italian?

Surnames don't have religions. You only have to look around at all the Gentile Goldschmidts and Jewish Smiths to see that. Nobile is an Italian nickname for Noble. There are English, Irish and Scottish Nobles, Italian Nobles and Nobiles.

American Jews sometimes Americanized the German name Knoebel to Noble, but so did many Knoebels who weren't Ashkenazi Jews. Knoebel is the old German word for a servant.

Knoebel was the name of a famous rabbinical German family that left Galicia in the 1600s and some of this family later emigrated to America.

There are a group of about 40 autosomal genetic diseases that are more common in the Ashjenazi Jewish population than in the general population. That means their risk is higher, but they don't have to be Jewish to get the disease. I guess the disease that most people are familiar with is Tay-Sachs. It is rare in the general population, but found a lot in the Ashkenazi population. However it isn't exclusive to Jews. It is also more frequently than normal in the Old Order Amish in Pennsylvania, the Cajuns in Louisiana, and in some French speaking areas of Quebec.

The only way to know for sure if your great grandparents or further back were Jewish is to trace their history back to the old country. There are lots of diseases that are more common among closed communities such as you describe. Mutations can also sometimes happen randomly among any population.

Have you had a DNA test to see how much Jewish ancestry you have?

Italian records are not available online. One would need to write to whatever civil authority is in the village to look up old records to see if they attended church or synagogue.

I found no information on crypto-Jews named Nobile. Crypto Jews were originally Spanish or Portuguese Jews who in the late 1300s pretended to follow Catholicism. There have been other crypto-Jews in other countries as well, including Russia today.

Most Jews in the Diasporoa settled in the south of Italy in the areas of Sicily, Apulia, and Calabria where they were known as Neofiti.

As I mentioned, you can't tell anything from a name. You need DNA testing and so does your family.

Kind regards,

Schuyler

~

A. Schuyler
A. Schuyler, Genealogist
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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
Thank you for your response. I could only trace to my great grandfather. I go to the village every year as I inherited the stone house now 3 stories high in Cariseto. The records are sparse. Many times, I was told, that in the small onclaves high in the Apennines, they did not register births. Their is a small Catholic Church, but my grandparents nor my father held to any religious beliefs. My sisters and I were told we could believe what we wanted. I became a Christian when I was 44, my middle sister became a Christian at 52, my older sister is agnostic, as my father was. My mother, I couldn’t get her to talk too much about her beliefs. It was strange that I grew up among many Italians in New Orleans, all of which were Catholics. We were nothing but Italian. My endocrinologist who treats 2 of my disorders assumed I knew that I was Jewish. She said from her test, my genetics say I am Jewish, on both sides. I don’t care if I am of the Jewish race, I just think someone should have told us. We have congenital hemophilia, Factor V Leiden, Krukenberg Spindle, multiple endocrine neoplasia 1 (MEN 1), MTHFR, club feet at birth, congenital detached retinas, infertility, depression....the list goes on. All the offspring from the 4 children born to my grandparents ( 12 of us ) have at least 2 genetic mutations. But we all have very high IQ’s which seemed to be of the utmost importance in our entire family. But no diabetics, heart disease, you know the usual stuff. Everything we have been diagnosed with falls mostly in the category of rare or very rare. My insurance won’t even cover my condition. Well, I guess my sisters can think about the DNA and genetics tests and counseling for their adult children and grandchildren. They mostly don’t want to know. Ignorance is bliss to them. But, I got to say, genetically speaking......we are all screwed! Thank you for your help, information, and your kind ear.
Buona Sera e Grazie. ANGELINA NOBILE

Hi, Angelina,

All of the things you mentioned are more prevalent in population with a lot of inbreeding, such as your family history reveals in Cariseto. That is true regardless of the religion. No doubt practicing Catholics in the area have a higher than usual number of genetic problems.

I'm sorry your endocrinologist suggested that it was because you were Jewish, since that has noting to do with the particular maladies you mentioned. They are just as common in non-Jews, and are found as far away as China where there has never been much of a Jewish population (only 2,500 in the entire country in the 2010 census out of a population of close to 1.4 billion).

To test for Jewishness, just have a genealogy DNA test. They are quick (you have results in 4-6 weeks), non-invasive (a cheek swab or a little vial of saliva), and cheap (less than $200 usually). Here are some articles to read if you are interested in pursuing this:

https://eu.customercare.23andme.com/hc/en-us/articles/204444434-Can-23andMe-identify-Jewish-ancestry-

https://www.23andme.com/

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