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7.3 powerstoke excursion won’t start, I think something is…

Customer Question
7.3 powerstoke excursion won’t...

7.3 powerstoke excursion won’t start, I think something is wrong with the anti theft system PATS

Mechanic's Assistant: Have you checked the battery, particularly the terminal connections? Are they corroded?

They are not corroded

Mechanic's Assistant: What year is your Excursion?

2003

Mechanic's Assistant: Are you fixing your Excursion yourself? What have you tried so far?

Yes, I’ve had this happen before, in the past I have disconnected the batteries for a while and then it started

Mechanic's Assistant: Anything else you want the mechanic to know before I connect you?

Sometimes it will start then immediately die, the theft light is blinking slowly

Submitted: 1 month ago.Category: Ford
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Answered in 18 minutes by:
3/17/2018
Ford Mechanic: Scott W., Ford Technician replied 1 month ago
Scott W.
Scott W., Ford Technician
Category: Ford
Satisfied Customers: 3,573
Experience: 28 yrs. experience as Ford ASE Master Technician. Accolades include being a 2005 Ford PTS Regional Finalist and 2006 ASE Ford National Technician.
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H​ello my name is ***** ***** the starter try to engage? Is the theft light flashing rapidly like 3 flashes a second?

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
It turns over, fairly new interstate batteries, it is not flashing rapidly. Blinks about every 3 seconds. If I disconnect the battery for about 30 min and reconnect it will fire up for about 2 seconds then die. It did this to me about a month ago, I disconnected battery overnight and it started the next day
Ford Mechanic: Scott W., Ford Technician replied 1 month ago

O​k that means the Pats is working correctly. Have you had it checked for codes? It could be a ICP sensor concern try unplugging the ICP sensor and see if it will start.

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Ford Mechanic: Scott W., Ford Technician replied 1 month ago

I​t is toward the front of the drivers cylinder head, see if there is oil in the connector also.

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
I have an OBDII scan tool, the only code it has is P1670. EF feedback signal not detected. I will check the ICP sensor. Charging batteries now
Ford Mechanic: Scott W., Ford Technician replied 1 month ago

O​k, it could be a bad IDM, injector driver module or a wiring concern between the computer and IDM, I would take a look at the wiring where drapes over the drivers side valve cover, disconnect the large connector and flip the loom over and see if there any wires chafed on the bottom side.

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
Ok, will do. I replaced the wiring harness under the valve cover a few months ago when I but in new glow plugs and rebuilt the injectors. Would this still allow it to start fine and then die after a few seconds?
Ford Mechanic: Scott W., Ford Technician replied 1 month ago

I​t could if the wire is intermittently grounding out, another cheap try is a cam sensor, we replace a bunch of these for stalling concerns also.

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
Wouldn’t a faulty cam sensor throw a code?
Ford Mechanic: Scott W., Ford Technician replied 1 month ago

T​hey most of the time did, but on rare occasions I have seen some not set a code.

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
I checked all the wiring, I don’t see any that we’re worn. I unplugged the ICP and it still won’t start. It was running fine, drove to town about 6 miles. Shut it off at the store and when I came out it fired right up, then died within 2 seconds, started again with same result about 3 more times, then it will turn over without starting, I disconnected the battery for about 30 min. Reconnected battery, started and died 3 more times, now only cranks and will not fire.
Customer reply replied 1 month ago
Is the theft light supposed to be blinking all the time? It blinks with the ignition off, when the wiring ignition is on, and my wife thinks she noticed it has been blinking when the truck was running.
Ford Mechanic: Scott W., Ford Technician replied 1 month ago

OK i am wondering if the injector driver module might be bad. The 1670code means there is no communication between the computer and IDM. Here is the pinpoint test for code 1670. Click here

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Ford Mechanic: Scott W., Ford Technician replied 1 month ago

It should blink key off.

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
What about ignition on and while running?
Ford Mechanic: Scott W., Ford Technician replied 1 month ago

No, it should come on when starting then go out.

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
Can the PATS system be the reason?does it prevent communication between the computer and the IDM?
Customer reply replied 1 month ago
I’ll have to get my multimeter to perform the diagnostic test, I guess I’ll have to get it towed back home to my shop
Ford Mechanic: Scott W., Ford Technician replied 1 month ago

The PATS system when active flashes rapidly to let you know that is the reason of the no start. Since your is not flashing rapidly it doesn't appear to be PATS related. It should be tested with a scan tool though to make sure. Here is a description of the system. You may need to get a scan tool that will check all modules to see if there are other codes stored. Some of the cheaper scan tools don't work with diesels either. Click here

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
Can the IDM sporadically act up? Because I’ve had this happen before about a month ago, but it started the next day?
Ford Mechanic: Scott W., Ford Technician replied 1 month ago

It can, sometimes they leak and get water inside shorting out the module, have you had a lot of rain lately?

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
It’s been pretty dry, but it did rain yesterday
Customer reply replied 1 month ago
This is the first I’ve driven it in about a week
Ford Mechanic: Scott W., Ford Technician replied 1 month ago

I​ would run that pinpoint test and see where it leads, try clearing the 1670 and see if it comes right back if it does that means the fault is still present and the pinpoint test hopefully will lead you to the problem.

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
I spoke to a diesel mechanic at work and he said it probably isn’t the IDM. He said usually both banks will not go out at the same time. He said to try a cam sensor first, easy to change and only about $30. He said the power strokes were notorious about them going out, Ford even had a recall. If this doesn’t work I will then do the diagnostics with the IDM harness
Ford Mechanic: Scott W., Ford Technician replied 1 month ago

G​ood deal, 2 of us say try the cam sensor first, let me know what happens.

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Customer reply replied 26 days ago
Replaced cam sensor, still not starting
Ford Mechanic: Scott W., Ford Technician replied 25 days ago

Have you ran that pinpoint test out for the 1670 code? Is it still setting the 1670 code?

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Customer reply replied 22 days ago
Scott, I ran the diagnostic test for code 1670 up through test FJ7 and everything checked out ok. I could not run test FJ8 because my scan tool is not that advanced and it does not run. Does this mean my IDM is bad? I have cleared the code and it does not throw it again when I’m cranking the engine.
Ford Mechanic: Scott W., Ford Technician replied 22 days ago

Have you pulled the fuel filter cap off and turned on the key to see if the fuel pump is supplying fuel? Or have you checked fuel pressure? I just find it odd it ran into town, started then died, and would start for a couple seconds after the battery was disconnected and reconnected. Another thing too is when cranking, listen for the injectors to start clicking, you may need someone to crank this over then you listen under the hood, they are pretty noisy clicking and clacking if there is no fuel pressure, this would also let us know if the IDM was sending pulse width to the injectors.

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Customer reply replied 22 days ago
I have fuel pressure, not sure what it is but I opened the fuel bowl drain and turned the key on, fuel was flowing out. I had someone crank the engine and I do not hear the injectors making any noise
Ford Mechanic: Scott W., Ford Technician replied 22 days ago

I​ think you at a point where this vehicle needs to have a scan tool on it to monitor pids and do a injector test, these test will help narrow down the no start, I assume all the fuses have been checked first just to make sure there isn't one blown somewhere. But an injector test with a scan will check the functionality of the IDM along with all the communication of the modules. You can then monitor pids while cranking to see if all the pids are reading correctly or if there is one causing the no start. Guessing at a IDM can be expensive, so we want to make sure this is the part it needs, a few dollars of diag can be worth so much more, than buying a module for $$$ and not fixing the truck.

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Ford Mechanic: Scott W., Ford Technician replied 22 days ago

We have a "test" IDM at work just for these instances.

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Ford Mechanic: Scott W., Ford Technician replied 22 days ago

S​ometimes these modules won't let the vehicle start, and will pass every test also, not set any codes. But it should be tested first with a scan tool regardless.

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Customer reply replied 22 days ago
I can purchase a rebuilt IDM for about $120. It will cost at least $150 just to have it towed to a mechanic, I’m probably looking at close to $500 just to have it diagnosed. I’ll check to see if I can find someone who has one. What’s a good reasonable priced scanner that can do what I need?
Customer reply replied 22 days ago
http://www.riffraffdiesel.com/autoenginuity-total-ford-enhanced-bundle/
Would this do what I need?
Thanks
Ford Mechanic: Scott W., Ford Technician replied 22 days ago

T​hat is a good price for a rebuilt IDM. As far as a scan tool I only have experience with a Ford IDS, and they are 3500 plus. The one you listed I am not sure, you would have to contact them and ask if it does koeo injector tests and all other running tests.

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Customer reply replied 22 days ago
A mechanic friend is going to let me borrow his scan tool, going to pick it up now.
Ford Mechanic: Scott W., Ford Technician replied 22 days ago

Ok

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Customer reply replied 21 days ago
it looks as if my ICP sensor is only reading about 250psi when cranking, I unplugged it to make it go into default and it reads about 2300psi but still will not start. Looks like I need to replace it, but why won’t it start
Ford Mechanic: Scott W., Ford Technician replied 21 days ago

I am assuming since the ICP is low, there isn't enough pressure to push the fuel in, there also needs to be 500 psi minimum before the injectors will even fire. I wouldn't replace the ICP yet as long as it reads 0 psi or close too with the key on not cranking then it should be ok.

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Ford Mechanic: Scott W., Ford Technician replied 21 days ago

L​ow ICP can be cause by injector Oring blown out, it could be a IPR valve, it could also have a oil pump problem letting the oil system bleed down and causing a no start. First I would remove the plug on top of the high pressure reservoir, see if oil starts filling this up while cranking the engine over. See if it is full, if will not be completely full since there is a stand pipe in there, and only fills to about an inch or so from the top.

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Ford Mechanic: Scott W., Ford Technician replied 21 days ago

It could also be a fuel injector leaking all the high pressure oil out, to test this we remove the valve covers and inspect the injector spill spouts and the one with all the oil out has a bad injector. It will be running out while cranking the engine over.

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Customer reply replied 21 days ago
Got it figured out, the retaining nut came off the back of the IPR valve allowing the solenoid head to slide back on the shaft. I slid it back forward and it started right up, this is why it was an intermittent problem. I’ll get a new nut and secure it
Ford Mechanic: Scott W., Ford Technician replied 21 days ago

Awesome, you found the problem. Thanks for the reply!

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Ford Mechanic: Scott W., Ford Technician replied 21 days ago

If you have more questions just ask, all I ask, is you take the time to rate my service today, as this is how I am paid for my time, thanks Scott. You can always ask follow up questions after rating.

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Experience: 28 yrs. experience as Ford ASE Master Technician. Accolades include being a 2005 Ford PTS Regional Finalist and 2006 ASE Ford National Technician.

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