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Second opinion] wont start, cranks slowJA: Have you checked…

Customer Question
Second opinion] wont start...

Second opinion] wont start, cranks slow

Mechanic's Assistant: Have you checked the engine's fuel supply? And the spark plugs -- are they all working?

I have fuel, in fact, smells like it is flooding. I have ignition.

Mechanic's Assistant: What is the model/year of your Ford?

1986 Ranger 2.9L FI

Mechanic's Assistant: Are you fixing your Ranger yourself? What have you tried so far?

Yes. I just set the timing and took it for a test drive. I noticed a surging at 55 mph. I pulled off the tpi to check it. Once I put it back on, it would not start.

Mechanic's Assistant: Anything else you want the mechanic to know before I connect you?

It cranks slow like it is out of time

Submitted: 1 month ago.Category: Ford
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Answered in 3 minutes by:
3/11/2018
Ford Mechanic: Ron, ASE Certified Technician replied 1 month ago
Ron
Ron, ASE Certified Technician
Category: Ford
Satisfied Customers: 24,320
Experience: 23 years with Ford specializing in drivability and electrical and AC. Ford certs and ASE Certs
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Ford Mechanic: Ron, ASE Certified Technician replied 1 month ago

When are you setting the ignition timing are you removing the SPOUT connector before you set the timing?

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
I have replaced the fuel pressure regulator, fuel pump, fuel filter, set the ignition timing to 10 BTC. I pulled the new plugs out and cranked the engine over to see if it had too much fuel in the cylinders and it seemed like it was okay. I put the plug back in and ther truck started and ran for about ten minutes and died. Now it cranks slow again like it is a timing issue. I brought #1 up to top dead center and checked the mark on the balancer and the location of the rotor. Everything seemed just fine.
Ford Mechanic: Ron, ASE Certified Technician replied 1 month ago

When are you setting the ignition timing are you removing the SPOUT connector before you set the timing?

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
I removed it, set the timing, then put it back in
Ford Mechanic: Ron, ASE Certified Technician replied 1 month ago

Base timing on this engine should be right at 10 degrees before TDC. Is that where your setting it?

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Ford Mechanic: Ron, ASE Certified Technician replied 1 month ago

Okay with the base timing set at 10 and with the SPOUT plugged back in, what is your timing reading at idle as well as 1500 PRM and 2500 RPM?

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
When I took out the plugs put them back in, the truck ran for about 10 minutes, but was rough. Then it died again. Now it cranks over labored like it is out of time, and will not start. I didn't record the readings, but the timing mark did move as I revved the engine
Ford Mechanic: Ron, ASE Certified Technician replied 1 month ago

Will it start if you remove the SPOUT and leave it out?

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
No. It acts the same way.
Ford Mechanic: Ron, ASE Certified Technician replied 1 month ago

Okay if you unplug the coil so you have no spark and then crank it overdose it still crank hard?

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
All this started because the truck was losing power going up a hill. I bought a timing light and checked the timing which was way off. I test drove it and it acted fine, except some "surging" around 55 mph. I suspected a tps, so I removed it so I could test it. When I put it back and plugged it in, it would not start. The engine cranks with the coil unplugged, but still labored
Customer reply replied 1 month ago
When I bring the timing mark to tdc and pull the cap, the rotor is pointing to #1
Customer reply replied 1 month ago
I also tried putting the timing back where it originally was and that did not help. So I put it back at 10btc.
Ford Mechanic: Ron, ASE Certified Technician replied 1 month ago

Well with the coil unplugged you have removed all spark from the ignition as well as an ignition source and timing control and if you have a properly charged battery and a good working starter with a proper ground to the engine then it should spin freely. If its still struggling with no spark then you have to have either a bad engine ground or a weak battery or a dragging starter. It sounds to me like you have a couple of things going on here. One is the slow craning issue and the other is the no start. When it will not start do you have good spark to the spark plugs as well as proper fuel pressure (28 to 38 PSI) and injector pulse at the injectors?

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
Good pressure, injectors are working, and the spark is good
Customer reply replied 1 month ago
When I pulled the plugs and spun it overy it was real free. When I put them back in it started and ran for 10 minutes
Ford Mechanic: Ron, ASE Certified Technician replied 1 month ago

Well then if you can get it spinning at the correct RPM then it should start. Have you verified that you have a good ground from the battery to the frame and then over to the engine?

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
I took it loose and cleaned it and put it back on
Ford Mechanic: Ron, ASE Certified Technician replied 1 month ago

The factory ground on the 1986 was one cable that ran from the battery to the frame and then over to the engine. Is that the way your is?

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
I have a cable to the frame and a cable to the chassis
Ford Mechanic: Ron, ASE Certified Technician replied 1 month ago

What about from the battery to the engine?

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
I have ground to the engine also
Ford Mechanic: Ron, ASE Certified Technician replied 1 month ago

Well if you have a good ground and a good starter and battery the engine should spin normally with the coil unplugged because timing is no longer an issue and if you have good spark, injector pulse as well as proper fuel pressure then the engine should start and run. Something is not making any sensor here.

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
I know. It doesn't make sense. I have all the component i need to run the engine, but it does not run. That is the reason I contacted you. I am a pretty good shade tree mechanic and it has me baffled. Especially the part when I pull the plugs and spin the motor over. When i put them back in, it will start.
Customer reply replied 1 month ago
It almost acts like it is flooding and let out a puff of white smoke right before it died.
Ford Mechanic: Ron, ASE Certified Technician replied 1 month ago

One last thing to try is unbolted the TP sensor and leave it plugged in and see if it will start. Also, pull the vacuum line off the fuel pressure regulator and see if there is any signs of fuel in the line as well as the regulator.

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
Just put the fpr in because there was fuel in the vac line on the old one. This one is dry. I am unboolting the tps now.
Ford Mechanic: Ron, ASE Certified Technician replied 1 month ago

Okay, so it was over fueling before you replace the regulator. Have you ever connect a fuel pressure gauge and read the actual fuel pressure?

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
fuel pressure is reading around 38
Customer reply replied 1 month ago
unbolted the tps and it made no difference
Ford Mechanic: Ron, ASE Certified Technician replied 1 month ago

Well, I'm out of ideas, everything according to your testing is checking out. In order for the engine to start and stay running, you need a good spark at the plugs, injector pulse at the injector, proper fuel pressure, and good compression. If you're sure you have all of these then this engine should start and run. Are you 100% sure you have all of these?

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
I am sure
Ford Mechanic: Ron, ASE Certified Technician replied 1 month ago

Well, I am at a loss here. Ill open this back up for you and perhaps someone else will have something else to offer.

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
Truck just started with me hold pedal to floor. Running real rough
Customer reply replied 1 month ago
Note, when I press on brake engine tries to die
Customer reply replied 1 month ago
Exhaust making a rumbling sound
Ford Mechanic: Ron, ASE Certified Technician replied 1 month ago

All your doing by holding the pedal to the floor is shutting down the injector to clear a flooded condition. If the engine is overruling it would cause a slow crank as well because the engine would be trying to liquid lock. Did it blow black smoke out the exhaust when it started?

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
No
Ford Mechanic: Ron, ASE Certified Technician replied 1 month ago

Okay, I'll open it back up for you. I'm out of ideas and do not think I can fix it over the internet.

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
Ok
Customer reply replied 1 month ago
KOEO results: 21-ECT out of self test range-normal for cold start; 24-ACT out of self test range-normal for cold start; 84-EGR vacuum regulator circuit failure, however EGR valve is fully closed, so this isn't an issue on start up. No vacuum going to EGR when cold.
Customer reply replied 1 month ago
Continuous Codes: 33 EGR valve opening not detected; 41 HEGO sensor indicates lean system; 43 HEGO sensor indicates rich system; 53 TP circuit above maximum voltage (tested this and it was at ~4.8V)...went from ~.7V to 4.8V smoothly duringing simulated acceleration.
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