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You Had to have new exhaust valves in 2011 Ford Escape. #2…

You Had to have new exhaust...
You
Had to have new exhaust valves in 2011 Ford Escape. #2 cylinder misfire was the code originally.first replaced plugs and coils compression was a little bit lower but not extreme. I then took it to dealer. Where I was told it had 2 burnt exhaust valves. Told the head looked fine so he replaced valves. $2200. Picked up escape on Friday but took it back because I could still feel a misfire at about 65-70 mph. Now they are telling me I need to replace the cylinder head with a new one because they "believe" there is a small crack that they did not see.I was told I'm only feeling it at high speed because its heated up. Does this sound like a crack in cylinder head to you?
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11/27/2017
Ron
Ron, ASE Certified Technician
Category: Ford
Satisfied Customers: 38,841
Experience: 23 years with Ford specializing in drivability and electrical and AC. Ford certs and ASE Certs
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Hello. My name is ***** ***** I am happy to assist you today. Give me just a moment to review your post, and I'll be right back with the help you need.

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This could be a crack in the cylinder head but when they had the heads off they should have sent it out to the machine shop to have it checked for any cracks as well as warpage. That is the standard procedure anytime you remove the heads and unless they have the heads back off and at the machine shop then there is no way to even know if it's cracked. Have they removed the head again and sent it in to be checked for a crack?

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Customer reply replied 8 months ago
No they do not have the heads off right now. Originally he said there was no sign of a crack , just bad valves in that cylinder. The exhaust valves were replaced in cylinder 2 . It only has a miss when I get up to a speed of 60-65 mph. If I drive slower it doesn't do it or if I drive faster it doesn't do it.
Customer reply replied 8 months ago
If it were a crack in the cylinder head wouldn't it misfire all the time? Not only at a certain speed?

If in fact, it had a crack, then yes it would affect the engine at all time and and also likely overheat. I have to wonder how they were able to determine the head was cracked with it still on the car. Usually, to determine if a head is cracked it has to be magafluxed and this can not be done with the head in place. This does not past the smell test to me.

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Customer reply replied 8 months ago
Also I was told the compression was fine on all cylinders when I picked up the vehicle on Friday. If there was in fact a crack in the head wouldn't that affect compression? What else could be the cause of burnt exhaust valve in only 1 cylinder?

If the crack was in the combustion chamber then yes that would affect the compression. A burnt valve in most cases is caused by a lean fuel mixture. The type of misfire you're having sounds more like an ignition misfire caused by something failing in the ignition system such as a coil and or a spark plug. Before you let them replace the head I think you would be wise to have another shop check this out for you.

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Customer reply replied 8 months ago
When I first took it in to the dealer the code was p0302 I was told it was probably a vct solenoid. Then was told it was probably a burnt valve. But couldn't be sure til he tore the engine down. After that I got a call back saying it was for sure a burnt exhaust valve but the cylinder head was fine. Picked it up 2 days later and on the way home it was driving great til I reached 65 mph then I could feel a shudder and slight vibration in the steering wheel ( this is how I first knew something was wrong about 3 months ago but no check engine light til a month ago gradually got worse and light came on) if I drive 75 it stops or if I slow to 60 it stops.It it not showing a check engine light currently and tech said there is not a code in computer. He showed me a graph where there was a very slight dip in the 2 cylinder. So he says the only thing this could be is a crack in the head OR a bad computer.
Customer reply replied 8 months ago
now I'm told it's $1122 for parts to replace the cylinder head. And service manager says he will not charge me any labor.

I do not agree with the eaither diagnosis, he should be able to see the misfire count on his scanner and determine the actual cylinder. Im still not clear on how they know its a cracked head without having it off and inspected but if you're going to do this with them I would insist on seeing the old head with the crack in it.

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Customer reply replied 8 months ago
He said first that he checked the cylinder head and everything looked fine. Now he says the crack could be so small that he wouldn't have seen it. Says the reason I only feel it at 65-70 mph is because that's when it's heated up and the crack expands.

If the head was properly tested at the machine shop when they had it off the first time the crack if its cracked should have been found. Is this the 2.5 engine?

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Customer reply replied 8 months ago
it is 2.5

Well, I can tell you that he is double charging you for the cylinder head if in fact, he's replacing it. A new head from Ford sells for $538 with new valves. See the link below.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/dbuevl8nwquv1b5/cylinder%20head%20Nov%2027.pdf?dl=0

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One thing I can say is this engine has had known issues with the valve seats caused by valve seat recession issue of the cylinder head causing the rough running and misfire activity. If there is anything wrong with the head then I suspect its the seats which also should have been caught when the head was off.

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Customer reply replied 8 months ago
If it were the seats or a crack would the miss come and go while I'm driving highway speeds?
Customer reply replied 8 months ago
I was also told that there was no way to get a new head from Ford. Was told it would have to be aftermarket

If in fact, it has bad seats then yes, the miss would be noticed under load. Ford usually stock replacement parts for 10 years. That being said aftermarket head are usually much cheaper than Ford's head. See the link below.

http://www.alliedmotorparts.com/cylinder-heads/ford.html?id=7&_vsrefdom=adwords&gclid=Cj0KCQiAjO_QBRC4ARIsAD2FsXOdj4Q7QbYBzcudDyKBOvAvPpwWu4usDYBtj-u_lmmhDaBoW_gYE1kaAk8ZEALw_wcB&category=%3F&make=16&model=779&year=3&engine=871

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Customer reply replied 8 months ago
That doesn't include all the gaskets and bolts? Or does it? I had to pay for new gaskets and bolts to replace the valves now I'm told I have to reprchase because they can't be reused

No it doses not include the gaskets and the bolts, those will have to be purchased again if you're replacing the head.

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The OEM gasket set list for $40.18 and you can get the new bolts for right at $20.00 See the link below. With a new head and the gaskets and the bolts your still a long way from $1100 don't you think?

https://www.partsgeek.com/catalog/2011/ford/escape/engine_mechanical/head_bolt.html?rp=head_bolt_set

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Customer reply replied 8 months ago
If it is a seat issue does the head need to be replaced?

Yes if the valve seats are bad then the head dose have to be replaced.

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Customer reply replied 8 months ago
The thing I keep coming back to is the fact that it will miss at around 65-70 mph for a minute or two then stop. Would a seating issue cause this?

It is a possibility but I would think if they installed new valves they would have noticed the seats being bad if in fact, they where. I agree with you, something does not sound right here.

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Just checking in to see if your still needing help with this, if so please post back and we can work from there if need be. If not then please take a moment to rate my service so I can get credit for my time, the question remains open for follow up even after doing so, all you need to do is return to this question if need be.

Thank you again.

Ron
Ron, ASE Certified Technician
Category: Ford
Satisfied Customers: 38,841
Experience: 23 years with Ford specializing in drivability and electrical and AC. Ford certs and ASE Certs
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Customer reply replied 8 months ago
I went yesterday and picked up my Escape.... decided to go with my gut . I really felt like something was just not right. They were still insisting that it is a crack in the head. Driving home vehicle drives fine. When speed hits 60 mph there is a slight shudder/ vibration/ miss. I set the cruise control at that speed.... it stopped after a few minutes. My father in law says he thinks it's a bad injector. What is your thought on this?

Taking it out of there was a damn good idea. This could be a bad injector or even a bad coil or a spark plug. I think one thing you should try if you have not already would be to have the fuel injector professional cleaned and see if that will help.

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Customer reply replied 8 months ago
You were right about them charging me double for parts. They left their paperwork in the seat of my truck. It had the prices printed on it. New head w/ valves $538 and $32 for gaskets. Far from $1122. I really felt like I was better off taking it to a dealer.. Guess it's hard to trust anyone these days

Unfortunately, not all dealers are honest and it hurts everyone as well.

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