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I have 2008 Ford F250 SD 4wd v8 5.4L (VIN:

I have 2008 Ford F250...

I have 2008 Ford F250 SD 4wd v8 5.4L (VIN: 1FTSX215X8EE54636). Recently and abruptly failed to crank. Have 3 Transponder Keys, none work. Anti-Theft light flashes. However, also find that I cannot get connection via OBDII port (gets Link Error). I am supposing problem is (A) PATS system fail, or (B) Problem with PCM or cable fault between OBDII port and PCM (or perhaps power fail on something). Ford is not much help in troubleshooting this. i would like to identify the Transponder Transceiver Module(s) and see if working, but have found nothing but confusion about this module, whether it is all in one module, or more (e.g., TXRX and separate antenna coil), and where is it located. I have the instrument cluster out and the shroud off the steering column, and thus far, I cannot identify where the transceiver is, and see nothing that looks like the parts photos that I find when searching parts for my VIN number. That is one issue. As another, I am about to decide that the PATS is probably working and the main problem is in the communications between PATS components and the PCM (power, cable, or PCM failure, etc.). I am told by Ford that a PATS fail or perceiving a Theft condition, does not shut down OBDII communication. Is this the case in your experience? Please comment. ******* **** JA: Have you checked the fuses? Have you tried to reset the computer? Customer: I have attempted to check fuses that would seem to apply, They seem to be OK, although I will probably check them again. I do not know how to Reset the Computer. That could well be important if that is something potentially needed. How do you do that? JA: Are you fixing your F250 yourself? What have you tried so far? Customer: I am working on it myself at this time. Towing it to Ford is a pain in the ass; and with the best I can tell, they do not have a clue about this either. I could expect a solution involving changing all related parts and systems, and I do not want to pay for that. JA: The Mechanics require payment for their services. It's way less expensive on JustAnswer than face-to-face would cost. Customer: Can you give me an idea of what your charges are to answer a few specific questions about this sytem? JA: Anything else you want the mechanic to know before I connect you? Customer: I just asked, what is the charge to answer a few specific questions? JA: You just pay a $5 deposit now and the rest only when you get a reply from the Mechanic. All of this is 100% satisfaction guaranteed, so you can get a refund if you're not happy for any reason. Customer: What and how do you charge for the subsequent work/time? JA: You just pay a $5 deposit now and the rest only when you get a reply from the Mechanic. All of this is 100% satisfaction guaranteed, so you can get a refund if you're not happy for any reason. Customer: Are you still there? Are you seeing my questions?

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Answered in 27 minutes by:
9/17/2017
eric remington
Category: Ford
Satisfied Customers: 293
Experience: mechanic/service advisor at topline auto
Verified

wh​en you check fuses use a test light and make sure you are getting power on both sides of the fuse. ck all fuses in ALL fuse boxes. the antitheft system being activated should not interfere with obd 2 communication is true. what kind of scanner are you using?

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Customer reply replied 2 months ago
Just a moment.
Customer reply replied 2 months ago
OK, Eric, it is Actron CPCP9575.
Customer reply replied 2 months ago
It has worked on all of my other vehicles, Jeep and Chev.
Customer reply replied 2 months ago
Eric, as I mentioned while awaiting you (turns out to your robot), I am a retired electrical engineering professor, and I am quite able to troubleshoot electronic circuits, etc.. My problem has been mostly obtaining information on documentation and on the components involved and where they are located. This information has been difficult to obtain for my truck.

o​k let me know what you need ...component locator...ask and you shall receive

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j​ust ask any specific question on any documentation and I should be able to aacquire it for you

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y​ou need a scanner that can access all the different modules ....if not we can try and work around that but there are different modules and the pcm is only one

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Customer reply replied 2 months ago
For one issue, I have not been able to determine where the key transponder transceiver module is located. I have recently found a drawing of the part that is said to be for my specific VIN number vehicle, but I have thus far not found anything like it in the truck system. I have the steering wheel shroud off and can see fairly well where it might go, but I see nothing that would seem to be the transceiver or even the antenna coil. The local Ford people tell me that the coil should be around the key lock entry, but is is not.
Customer reply replied 2 months ago
Can you simply tell me where the transponder transceiver / antenna coil module is located and what it looks like?
Customer reply replied 2 months ago
I know where the PCM is. But I want to find the transceiver system that reads the Key. I am sure that at least the antenna coil is in the steering column, near the key; and I suppose the transceiver electronic module is close by or an integral part containing the antenna. I cannot find it.
Customer reply replied 2 months ago
I think I presently cannot use an OBDII scanner of any kind (no communication); and again, I am thinking that communication problem is likely to be the main cause.
Customer reply replied 2 months ago
Eric, are you still there?

I'm still here I found info you are looking for just cant seem to copy and paste from web page. its a subscription maybe tomorrow getting late east coast but will be back

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Customer reply replied 2 months ago
OK. Are you saying you will send it tomorrow?
Customer reply replied 2 months ago
While waiting, let me add that, I earlier identified a black plastic enclosed module that has a round cylinder (a bit over 1 inch OD and about 1 inch long) with a cable connector protruding from the side at one end (as I recall 7 conductor pins). This fits into the left (from drivers seat) side of the assembly containing the key lock, at opposite side from the key, and is called "ignition switch' by Auto Zone. I thought this might contain the antenna coil and possibly transceiver stuff, too. But, now I find that there is supposed to be another module (round ring with connector -- plastic, I think) that is called the Transceiver. This was identified by the Ford parts search using my VIN number. But I see no such part and no likely place that it would be.
Customer reply replied 2 months ago
Let me also ask while waiting: You mentioned a scanner to see the other components. I assume you are talking about an OBDII scanner. Is there a hand held unit available that can do this?
Customer reply replied 2 months ago
Well, Eric. I have not heard from you in quite a while. Perhaps you are gone for the day. It was not entirely clear from your last comment. Perhaps you can read what I have written since your last response and reply tomorrow. I think you are probably trying to provide the sort of help that I need, and I appreciate that. If I can get a clear enough definition of the system involved, I will be able to figure out what is wrong. There are several questions open yet, for which I have not received an answer. One of them is regarding "Reset of the PCM", that was mentioned earlier. I am not aware of what sort of reset is needed here, so please describe what needs to be done to reset the PCM. I would not expect that to be needed, so please explain this. In most all cases of computers, embedded or general purpose, all resets and initiations are automatically done on power up. I am wondering if this is something that has to do with the PATS system, after a theft detection.Please notify me via Text message or Email when you return with further response.Regards,
Darrell
Customer reply replied 2 months ago
PS: Eric, you said earlier that you could acquire any documentation for me. I would very much like to receive circuit documentation involving the PATS system circuits and the essential OBDII circuitry, OBD port to PCM computer module, at least, with the various power buses shown. Hopefully, with suitable labeling of the power and signal conductors. I am quite aware that there are scads of diagram images on the Web, but is has seemed virtually impossible to clearly identify the right ones for my vehicle. DRW.

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looks like I had too much info on ford 3

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scan 03

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scan 03

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sorry I am having difficulty

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    2008 Ford Truck F 250 2WD Super Duty V8-5.4L

    Vehicle » Starting and Charging » Technical Service Bulletins » All Technical Service Bulletins » Computer and Controls - No Network Communication

    • Computer and Controls - No Network Communication

    General Service Bulletin (GSB):
    No Network Communication GSB

    GSB Overview:

    Information intended to assist in addressing CAN network "No Communication" related issues

    NOTE : This information is not intended to replace or supersede any warranty, parts and service policy, Work Shop Manual (WSM) procedures or technical training or wiring diagram information.

    © 2017 ALLDATA LLC. All rights reserved. Terms and Conditions

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    Customer reply replied 2 months ago
    Hi, Eric. Thanks for the several pieces of information that you have sent this morning. I have looked them each briefly, but I think it will be necessary for me to take some time to digest the information and examine the related truck parts in order to respond appropriately. Does it work OK for you to go back and forth with delayed time intervals, on an as can basis?

    y​es I am not able to send all the info at any given time..... its not all coming thru. but I wouod start with all fuse box ck very thorough and new lock cylinder with matching transponder keys programmed. the obd 2 miscommunication if not a fuse...could be a nertwork issue but that is rare. I would start with cking the obd 2 connector with your computer safe logic probe and see if you are getting power there. if you had a scanner that could commun icate with different modules besides the pcm you might retrieve codes that might point to the antitheft issue....lock cylinder simple to change....I wil be here let me know what specifically you would like. if you are not receiving power to obd 2 connector and you have cked every fuse let m e know and I will get you that schematic....deal ? let me know

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    yes this may take some to resolve Ill be here no rush

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    Customer reply replied 2 months ago
    I do have a couple of questions and comments thus far: On the drawing of the steering column assembly immediately in front of the steering wheel, with labels pointing to various parts, the Transceiver module is pointed out in this drawing. However, it is not at all clear in this drawing. The resolution is not sufficient for me to see what is actually being pointed to. Is it pointing to the actual Transceiver Module, or the overall assembly? I cannot yet see anything on the actual truck assembly that appears to be the Transceiver. Also, some of the pdf files you have sent do not come through here. Errors reported. I will try to be more specific as I dig through this stuff.

    that's Mitchell let me try alldata so you want a location of transceiver module

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    Customer reply replied 2 months ago
    In response to your recent reply: I do seem to have power on the OBD connector. The fuse (I am told it is powered via the Cigar Lighter fuse) is OK. Also, my OBD reader derives it power from the connector, and it operates OK to the extent of determining that there is a Link Error.
    I got your message that we can do this on a delayed time basis, and that works for me. I appreciate your help, Eric.
    On the pdf files, or perhaps other information, are you able to send them as an email attachment? That would work OK here if it becomes necessary.
    On the circuit diagram. I would like to get that whenever you can obtain it.
    On the Transceiver Module, do you have something showing what it looks like? The one I found is Ford part # as follows:
    (6E5Z-15607-AA). As I mentioned earlier, I see nothing like that in the actual assembly. Must be well hidden if it is there.

    I still would ck every fuse on every fuse box trust me I know I have been thrown curve balls by bad or ,missing fuses. ck to make sure you have power on every fuse in every fuse box both sides of fuse

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    Customer reply replied 2 months ago
    Eric, let me also mention that I have a fairly busy day here on some other matters, and will have limited time today. I will get back to you as I can, and I understand that you will need to respond as you can. I will be looking at the additional information that you have sent, and will reply as I can. Thanks again for your help in this manner.
    Customer reply replied 2 months ago
    On the fuse checking, I understand and agree. I know what you mean. I will be checking them with a test light or volt meter. It is very useful to me to hear some of your experience based thoughts on this, as that helps to focus the efforts.
    Customer reply replied 2 months ago
    Just to calibrate with you, I will be in and out here and not continuously at my computer, so we can do 'catch as catch can'.
    Are you generally available today and tomorrow?
    Customer reply replied 2 months ago
    I see the diagrams. Thanks. I will be looking at them as I can. Should be helpful.

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      2008 Ford Truck F 250 2WD Super Duty V8-5.4L

      Vehicle » Accessories and Optional Equipment » Antitheft and Alarm Systems » Technical Service Bulletins » All Technical Service Bulletins » Keyless Entry - Transmitter May Not Operate

      • Keyless Entry - Transmitter May Not Operate

      TSB 08-12-9

      06/23/08

      INOPERATIVE RKE TRANSMITTER (KEY FOB) -
      DISCHARGED KEY FOB BATTERY

      FORD:
      2008 Crown Victoria, Focus, Mustang
      2007-2008 F-150
      2008 E-Series, Expedition, Explorer Sport Trac, Explorer, F-Super Duty,
      Ranger

      LINCOLN:
      2007-2008 Mark LT

      MERCURY:
      2008 Grand Marquis, Mountaineer

      ISSUE
      Some 2007-2008 vehicles equipped with a remote keyless entry (RKE) transmitter may exhibit an inoperative Key Fob due to a discharged Key Fob battery. This may be caused by an internal issue with the Key Fob software. This concern only applies to vehicles built within a specific date range with Key Fobs manufactured within a specific date range.

      ACTION
      Follow the Service Procedure steps to correct the condition.

      SERVICE PROCEDURE

      NOTE PERFORMING THIS PROCEDURE WILL HAVE NO EFFECT ON KEY FOB RANGE. REFER TO WORKSHOP MANUAL (WSM), SECTION 501-14 FOR KEY FOB RANGE DIAGNOSTICS.

      1.Refer to vehicle list for build date range. (Figure 1)

      a.If the vehicle was built within the date range, then continue with this procedure.

      b.If not, then do not proceed. Continue with normal diagnostics per WSM, Section 501-14.

      2.Is the vehicle Key Fob part number 8L3T-15K601-AA (3 button) or 8S4T-15K601-AA (4 button)? (Figure 2)

      a.Yes - Go to Step 3.

      b.No - Do not proceed. Continue with normal diagnostics per WSM, Section 501-14.

      3.Using a thin coin, open the Key Fob and inspect manufacturer's date code sticker. The first three digits = day of year. The last digit = year. (Figure 3)

      a.If the first 3 digits are equal to or between 005 and 306 (5th day through 306th day) and the last digit is 7 (year), then proceed to Step 4.

      b.If the number is ***** this specified range, then do not proceed. Continue with normal diagnostics per WSM, Section 501-14.

      4.If the Key Fob is inoperative due to a discharged Key Fob battery, and the date code falls within the specified range, then replace Key Fob. Program the new Key Fob transmitter using the IDS RKE Transmitter Programming Procedure. Reassemble old Key Fob for warranty return analysis.

      NOTE KEY FOBS REPLACED UNDER WARRANTY WILL BE REQUESTED FOR ANALYSIS AND VERIFICATION OF THE DATE CODE.

      a.IDS RKE Transmitter Programming Procedure

      (1)Install known good battery into the suspect Key Fob so that IDS scan tool can identify it.

      (2)Connect IDS to vehicle.

      (3)From the Main Toolbox tab:

      (a)Select - Body.

      (b)Select - Security.

      (c)Select - Remote Keyless Entry.

      (4)Press the "Unlock" button on the suspect Key Fob to view the Transmitter Identification Code (TIC) in IDS.

      5.Select "Erase One Key Fob" or the "Erase" button.

      6.Select the suspect Key Fob TIC to erase from vehicle memory.

      7.Remove battery from suspect Key Fob and reassemble for warranty return.

      8.Select "Reprogram a New Keyfob" or the "Program" button.

      9.Press the "Unlock" button on the NEW Key Fob.

      10.Follow the instructions on the scan tool screen to complete the programming procedure.

      WARRANTY STATUS: Eligible Under Provisions Of New Vehicle Limited Warranty Coverage
      IMPORTANT : Warranty coverage limits/policies are not altered by a TSB. Warranty coverage limits are determined by the identified causal part.

      OPERATION DESCRIPTION TIME 081209A 2008 Focus, Mustang, 0.3 Hr. Explorer, Explorer Sport Trac, Mountaineer, E-Series, Expedition, Crown Victoria, Grand Marquis, Ranger, F-Super Duty: Replace Key Fob(s), Includes Time To Perform Key Fob Programming Procedure, And Verify Date Code Sticker (Do Not Use With 15601A) 081209A 2007-2008 F-150, Mark 0.3 Hr. LT: Replace Key Fob(s), Includes Time To Perform Key Fob Programming Procedure, And Verify Date Code Sticker (Do Not Use With 15601A)

      DEALER CODING

      CONDITION BASIC PART NO. CODE 15K601 42

      Disclaimer

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        2008 Ford Truck F 250 2WD Super Duty V8-5.4L

        Vehicle » Accessories and Optional Equipment » Antitheft and Alarm Systems » Description and Operation

        • Description and Operation

        ANTI-THEFT

        NOTE: If a new instrument cluster (IC) or the PCM (or both) is installed, the parameters MUST be reset in both modules or the vehicle will experience a passive anti-theft system (PATS) no-start. This will occur even if the vehicle is not equipped with PATS. Refer to Passive Anti-Theft System (PATS) Parameter Reset. See: Testing and Inspection\Programming and Relearning\Passive Anti-Theft System (PATS)

        The PATS is available on this vehicle as an option. The vehicle must be ordered with or without PATS as per the customer. It is not a dealer-installed option.

        PATS consists of the following components:

        • Anti-theft indicator (located in the IC)
        • Encoded (the key contains a transponder) ignition key
        • PATS transceiver
        • IC
        • PCM

        PATS uses radio frequency identification technology to deter a drive-away theft. Passive means that it does not require any activity by the user.

        The vehicle is equipped with 2 PATS keys. A maximum of 8 PATS keys can be programmed to start the vehicle. If additional PATS keys (more than 2) are desired, refer to Key Programming Using Two Programmed Keys. If additional PATS keys (more than 8) are desired, refer to Spare Key Programming - Unlimited Key Mode. See: Testing and Inspection\Programming and Relearning\Key Programming\Using Two Programmed Keys See: Testing and Inspection\Programming and Relearning\Spare Key Programming\Unlimited Key Mode

        PATS Function

        NOTE: If the IC or the PCM (or both) is being replaced, the parameters must be reset in both modules or the vehicle will experience a PATS no-start. This will occur even if the vehicle is not equipped with PATS. PATS vehicles and non-PATS vehicles have parameters in the IC and the PCM and they must be reset whenever either (or both) module(s) is (are) replaced. Refer to Passive Anti-Theft System (PATS) Parameter Reset. See: Testing and Inspection\Programming and Relearning\Passive Anti-Theft System (PATS)

        The PATS function is controlled by the IC. The PATS uses the IC to carry out all of the PATS functions such as receiving the identification code from the PATS key, issuing a signal to the PCM to control the starter and fuel injectors enable, and initiates the key interrogation sequence when the ignition key is turned to the ON or START position. Because of the interaction between the IC and the PCM, there are parameters that must be reset if the IC or the PCM (or both) is replaced. Refer to Passive Anti-Theft System (PATS) Parameter Reset. If the IC must be replaced for any reason (PATS concerns or IC concerns), the PATS keys also must be programmed into the new IC. Refer to Key Programming Using Diagnostic Equipment. All elements of PATS must be functional before the vehicle will start. If any of the components are not working correctly, the vehicle will not start. See: Testing and Inspection\Programming and Relearning\Passive Anti-Theft System (PATS) See: Testing and Inspection\Programming and Relearning\Key Programming\Using Diagnostic Equipment

        PATS is active only for a few seconds when the vehicle is starting. It is not a PATS concern if the vehicle stalls after it has been running for a minimum of 3 seconds . PATS will not disable a running vehicle.

        PATS may cause a vehicle no start due to either the fuel injectors not operating or the starter not operating (starter relay does not close) or both. Always check for PATS DTCs from the IC and the PCM when a no-crank or no-start condition exists. A low state of charge (SOC) in the vehicle battery may cause the PATS to allow starter operation, but prevent the fuel injectors from operating. If the theft light does not prove out (it may be either flashing or glowing steadily) and one (or both) of the previous conditions (fuel injectors and/or starter inoperative) are present, it may be due to a PATS issue. If the theft light proves out, it may not be a PATS issue. If the theft light does not illuminate at all, it may be an IC issue. Refer to the Symptom Chart. See: Testing and Inspection\Symptom Related Diagnostic Procedures

        PATS is not compatible with aftermarket remote start systems, which allow the vehicle to be started from the exterior of the vehicle. These systems may reduce the security of the vehicle, and also may be the cause of no-start concerns. Remote start systems must be removed from the vehicle before any PATS-related no-start concerns are investigated.

        Unlimited Key Mode
        PATS contains a feature called unlimited key mode. This feature allows a customer to program more than 8 vehicle keys, if requested. Each vehicle in unlimited key mode is set up with a special unlimited transponder security key code. This allows all the customer vehicles to share the same mechanically cut keys. For an individual customer, any randomly selected security key is acceptable. Refer to Spare Key Programming - Unlimited Key Mode. See: Testing and Inspection\Programming and Relearning\Spare Key Programming\Unlimited Key Mode

        © 2017 ALLDATA LLC. All rights reserved. Terms and Conditions

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        1. Verify the customer concern.
        2. Visually inspect for obvious signs of mechanical or electrical damage.

        Visual Inspection Chart

        1. If an obvious cause for an observed or reported concern is found, correct the cause (if possible) before proceeding to the next step.
        2. NOTE: Make sure to use the latest scan tool software release.

        If the cause is not visually evident, connect the scan tool to the data link connector (DLC).

        1. NOTE: The vehicle communication module (VCM) LED prove-out confirms power and ground from the DLC are provided to the VCM.

        If the scan tool does not communicate with the VCM:

        • Check the VCM connection to the vehicle.
        • Check the scan tool connection to the VCM.
        • Refer to Information Bus (Module Communications Network), No Power To The Scan Tool, to diagnose no communication with the scan tool.
        1. If the scan tool does not communicate with the vehicle:
          • Verify the ignition key is in the ON position.
          • Verify the scan tool operation with a known good vehicle.
          • Refer to Information Bus (Module Communications Network) to diagnose no response from the PCM.
        1. Carry out the network test.
          • If the scan tool responds with no communication for one or more modules, refer to Information Bus (Module Communications Network).
          • If the network test passes, retrieve and record the continuous memory DTCs.
        1. Clear the continuous DTCs and carry out the self-test diagnostics for the IC.
        2. If the DTCs retrieved are related to the concern, go to DTC Charts. For all other DTCs, refer to Body Control Systems (Multifunction Electronic Control Module).
        3. If no DTCs related to the concern are retrieved, GO to Symptom Chart. See: Symptom Related Diagnostic Procedures

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          2008 Ford Truck F 250 2WD Super Duty V8-5.4L

          Vehicle » Accessories and Optional Equipment » Antitheft and Alarm Systems » Testing and Inspection » Initial Inspection and Diagnostic Overview » Principles of Operation

          • Principles of Operation

          PRINCIPLES OF OPERATION

          NOTE: The smart junction box (SJB) is also known as the generic electronic module (GEM).

          Anti-Theft Indicator

          NOTE:

          • Replacement of the passive anti-theft system (PATS) transceiver does not require the PATS keys to be programmed into the instrument cluster (IC) again.
          • Make sure any aftermarket remote start systems have been removed from the vehicle before any PATS-related no-start concerns are investigated.
          • Make sure to determine if the vehicle is equipped with PATS before following any PATS-related diagnostics. PATS is optional on this vehicle.
          • A minimum of 2 PATS keys must be programmed into the IC before the vehicle will start.
          • If the IC or the PCM is being replaced (or both), the parameters must be reset in both modules or the vehicle will experience a PATS no-start. This will occur even if the vehicle is not equipped with PATS. Refer to Passive Anti-Theft System (PATS) Parameter Reset. See: Programming and Relearning\Passive Anti-Theft System (PATS)

          PATS uses a visual anti-theft indicator located in the IC. The indicator proves out for 3 seconds (whether the vehicle is equipped, or not equipped with PATS) when the ignition key is in the ON or START position under normal operation. If there is a PATS concern, this indicator either flashes rapidly or glows steadily when the ignition key is turned to the ON or START position. PATS also flashes the anti-theft indicator every 2 seconds for 10 seconds and then it will stay off when the ignition key is in the OFF position to act as a visual theft deterrent. If the vehicle is not equipped with PATS, the anti-theft indicator will not flash with the key in the OFF position. Refer to Instrument Panel, Gauges and Warning Indicators on the PATS indicator.

          PATS is active only for a few seconds when the vehicle is starting. It is not a PATS concern if the vehicle stalls after it has been running for a minimum of 3 seconds . PATS will not disable a running vehicle.

          A PATS no-start may involve a vehicle no-start due to either the fuel injectors not operating or the starter not operating (or both). If the PATS theft light does not prove out and one (or both) of the previous conditions are present, it may be due to a PATS issue. If the theft light proves out, and the vehicle does not start, it is probably not a PATS issue. Refer to Computers and Control Systems. If the theft light does not illuminate at all, it may be an IC issue. GO to Symptom Chart. A low battery voltage may cause the PATS to allow starter operation, but may keep the fuel injectors from operating. See: Symptom Related Diagnostic Procedures

          PATS Keys
          PATS uses a special ignition key that is larger than a conventional ignition key because it contains a permanently installed electronic device called a transponder. Each transponder contains a unique encrypted identification code which is one of a very large number of combinations. The addition of this transponder to the key makes it an "encoded" key. The PATS key does not require batteries and should last the lifetime of the vehicle. Each PATS key must be programmed into the IC before it can be used to start the vehicle. Up to 8 PATS keys can be programmed into the IC. If additional PATS keys are desired, a standard PATS key can be used. There are special diagnostic procedures described that must be carried out if a new PATS key is necessary. Refer to Key Programming Using Diagnostic Equipment or Key Programming Using Two Programmed Keys. See: Programming and Relearning\Key Programming\Using Diagnostic Equipment See: Programming and Relearning\Key Programming\Using Two Programmed Keys

          PATS Transceiver
          The PATS transceiver is located under the steering column shroud and communicates with the PATS ignition key. During each vehicle start sequence, the PATS transceiver reads the PATS ignition key identification code and sends data to the IC. The IC validates the code, and if it is the correct code, will send a message to the PCM to ground the starter relay solenoid coil and to also allow the fuel injectors to operate.

          PATS Operation

          NOTE: If the IC or the PCM is being replaced (or both), the parameters must be reset in both modules or the vehicle will experience a PATS no-start. This will occur even if the vehicle is not equipped with PATS. PATS vehicles and non-PATS vehicles have parameters in the IC and the PCM and they must be reset whenever either (or both) module(s) is (are) replaced. Refer to Passive Anti-Theft System (PATS) Parameter Reset. See: Programming and Relearning\Passive Anti-Theft System (PATS)

          The PATS function is controlled by the IC. When the PATS key is turned to the ON or START position, the IC initiates the key interrogation sequence by sending a voltage signal to the PATS transceiver. The transceiver then uses its antenna to bounce a signal off the transponder in the PATS key. This process "reads" the PATS key identification code and sends the key identification code back to the IC, which interprets it and determines if it matches one of the stored key codes. If it does match one of the stored key codes, the IC will send a message to the PCM to ground the starter relay solenoid coil and to also allow the fuel injectors to operate. If it does not match one of the stored key codes, or it is only a partial key read or no key read, the IC will send a message to the PCM to not ground the starter relay solenoid coil and not allow fuel injector operation. The anti-theft indicator in the IC will flash (or may glow steadily) and the IC will store one or more DTCs. All elements of PATS must be functional before the vehicle will start. If any of the components are not working correctly, the vehicle will not start. If the IC must be replaced for any reason (PATS concerns or IC concerns), the PATS keys must also be programmed into the new IC. Refer to Key Programming Using Diagnostic Equipment. See: Programming and Relearning\Key Programming\Using Diagnostic Equipment

          PATS disables the vehicle from starting if there is:

          • a damaged PATS key.
          • a non-programmed PATS key.
          • a non-PATS key (key has no electronics).
          • damaged wiring.
          • a damaged transceiver
          • a damaged IC.
          • failed parameters between the IC and the PCM.

          PATS Parameter Identification (PIDs)
          Monitoring the PATS PIDs in the IC can be very useful in determining which diagnostic steps to follow. Viewing the MASTERKEY (verifies if the key is programmed) PID (with both keys) will determine if the key is a programmed key and will also prove out the transceiver, circuitry and the IC. A master key is any key that is programmed into the IC (the MASTERKEY PID must display PRESNT). If the MASTERKEY PID reads NOTPREST, it may mean the key in the ignition lock cylinder is not programmed, is not a PATS key, is damaged or the transceiver, circuitry or IC may be at fault.

          Viewing the MIN_KEY (minimum number of keys) PID (this PID does not change) indicates the minimum number of keys that must be programmed into the IC. There must be at least 2 keys programmed into the IC in this type of PATS before the vehicle will start.

          Viewing the N_KEYCODE (number of keys programmed) PID will determines if the minimum number of keys have been programmed into the IC. If the N_KEYCODE PID reads 0 or 1, additional key(s) will need to be programmed into the IC in order to meet the minimum of 2 keys. If the N_KEYCODE PID reads 0 or 1, and the MASTERKEY PID reads NOTPREST, that particular key must be programmed into the IC. If the N_KEYCODE PID reads 1, and the MASTERKEY PID reads PRESNT, that particular key is already programmed into the IC.

          If the IC was replaced, the parameters in the IC, then the parameters in the PCM will need to be reset. When the parameters in the IC are reset, that clears (erases) the PCM ID from the IC. A parameter reset of the PCM will send a PCM ID to the IC that is necessary for the system to operate. Make sure to make 3-5 attempts to start the vehicle for 3-5 seconds each before attempting more procedures. The extra key cycles are necessary for the PCM ID to be sent (by the PCM) and then stored by the IC. If only a PCM parameter reset occurs, the IC may encounter 2 PCM IDs (the original one and the new one) and may cause a PATS-related no-start. If a PCM parameter reset occurs first, then the IC parameter reset occurs, there will be no PCM ID stored in the IC, and a PATS-related no-start may occur. Carry out the IC parameter reset first, then the PCM parameter reset next. If the PCMID PID reads STORED, the IC has a PCM ID stored. If it reads NOTSTRD, a parameter reset of the PCM may resolve this issue. If the PCMID PID reads STORED, the PCMVER (the PCM ID has been verified) PID will read YES.

          If the PATSENABL PID reads DISABLE, and the N_KEYCODE PID reads 2 or more and the MASTERKEY PID reads PRESNT, the IC and the PCM will need to have their parameters reset. If the PATSENABL PID reads DISABLE, and the N_KEYCODE PID reads 1 and the MASTERKEY PID reads PRESNT, or if the N_KEYCODE PID reads 0 and the MASTERKEY PID reads NOTPRESNT, a minimum of 2 keys will need to be programmed into the IC. Refer to Key Programming Using Diagnostic Equipment. See: Programming and Relearning\Key Programming\Using Diagnostic Equipment

          If the MASTERKEY continues to read NOTPRESNT after programming, this may indicate a defective key. The SPAREKEY (spare key) PID is defaulted to ENABLE. With the SPAREKEY PID displaying ENABLE, the IC will accept more than 2 keys (up to a maximum of 8) being programmed into the IC. Refer to Key Programming Using Two Programmed Keys. It can be toggled to DISABL if the customer does not want any more than 2 keys programmed into the IC. Refer to Key Programming Switch State Control. This switch state control does not affect the Key Programming Using Diagnostic Equipment procedure. See: Programming and Relearning\Key Programming\Using Two Programmed Keys See: Programming and Relearning\Key Programming\Switch State Control

          In summary for the IC PATS PIDs and their correct state in order for the vehicle to start:

          • N_KEYCODE must read 2 or more
          • MASTERKEY must read PRESNT
          • PCMID must read STORED
          • PATSENABL must read ENABLE
          • PCMVER must read YES

          Unlimited Key Mode
          PATS contains a feature called unlimited key mode and uses the PID UNL_KEY_ID. This feature allows a customer to program more than 8 keys to their vehicle if they request it. Each vehicle in unlimited key mode is set up with a special unlimited transponder security key code. This allows all the customer vehicles to share the same mechanically cut keys, but no other keys from outside can be used to operate the vehicles. For an individual customer, any randomly selected security key that has been previously mechanically cut and electronically programmed to the vehicle is acceptable. Refer to Spare Key Programming - Unlimited Key Mode. See: Programming and Relearning\Spare Key Programming\Unlimited Key Mode

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          Customer reply replied 2 months ago
          Eric, it will of course take me a while to digest the material you have sent thus far. You do not need to look for more today until I can look at what I have. Please respond to my several questions verbally when you can. The answers might be found in the material that I have not yet seen, but your direct response to my questions will be helpful in the mean time. I am particularly interested in understanding where the Transceiver Module is physically located, in order to assess it. Thank you again for the material sent, and I will be getting back to you as I can.

          k I am trying to find just keep finding seemingly relevant material as I run across but I will focus on that

          Ask Your Own Ford Question

          I know I said I wouldn't but this seemed possibly relevant still looking for a pic

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            2008 Ford Truck F 250 2WD Super Duty V8-5.4L

            Vehicle » Accessories and Optional Equipment » Antitheft and Alarm Systems » Testing and Inspection » Pinpoint Tests » Test G: DTC U0100 - Lost Communication With ECM/PCM, DTC U2511 - CAN - Data Mis-Match (Receive Data Does Not Match Expected)

            • Test G: DTC U0100 - Lost Communication With ECM/PCM, DTC U2511 - CAN - Data Mis-Match (Receive Data Does Not Match Expected)

            PINPOINT TEST G: DTC U0100 - LOST COMMUNICATION WITH ECM/PCM, DTC U2511 - CAN - DATA MIS-MATCH (RECEIVE DATA DOES NOT MATCH EXPECTED)

            Normal Operation
            The passive anti-theft system (PATS) uses a visual anti-theft indicator located in the IC. This indicator proves out for 3 seconds when the key is turned to the ON or START position under normal operation. If there is a PATS concern, this indicator either flashes rapidly or glows steadily (for more than 3 seconds ) when the key is turned to the ON or the START position. PATS also flashes the anti-theft indicator every 2 seconds at key off to act as a visual theft deterrent. The anti-theft indicator operation is controlled by the IC.

            If DTC U2510 is present, refer to DTC Charts.

            • DTC U0100 (Lost Communication With ECM/PCM) - sets in continuous memory only when the instrument cluster (IC) loses communication with the PCM and the fault may not be present at the time of testing. This DTC may be caused by a high speed controller area (HS-CAN) network circuit issue or by the IC or the PCM.
            • DTC U2511 (CAN - Data Mis-Match [Receive Data Does Not Match Expected]) - sets in continuous memory only when the IC does not receive the expected response from the PCM over the HS-CAN network and the fault may not be present at the time of testing. The data sent by the PCM does not match the data expected by the IC and this DTC is set. This DTC can be caused by the HS-CAN circuits between the IC and the PCM or by either module. This DTC can also be set if the battery voltage is low.

            This pinpoint test is intended to diagnose the following:

            • Wiring, terminals or connectors
            • Low battery state of charge (SOC)
            • IC
            • PCM

            G1-G3

            G4-G5

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            Ask Your Own Ford Question

            The PATS is transceiver located under steering column shroud and communicates with the PATS ignition key

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            more to come

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            clusters are a problem too

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            the last pic I sent you is what you wanted?

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            If you need anything else I promise to get you just that lol

            eric remington
            Category: Ford
            Satisfied Customers: 293
            Experience: mechanic/service advisor at topline auto
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            eric remington and 87 other Ford Specialists are ready to help you
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            Customer reply replied 2 months ago
            Eric, thank you. I really appreciate your help. Sorry I am dragging in getting back to this. I've had too many irons in the fire. I will now be going through what you have sent, and I will certainly get back you. I will probably have some other questions, and maybe they will be better ones after I study this material. I see that you mention a picture that might be what I wanted. Have not seen it, yet, but I will let you know. You have already been very helpful to me in the material I have seen; and again, I appreciate you hunches and suggestions that come from your experience. We both know that this will likely be from a fairly simple cause, but it is of course not simple until we find it. I think we're getting there. In any case, I will let you know what I find and will be back in touch fairly soon.
            Customer reply replied 2 months ago
            BTW, Eric, I have looked at the picture you sent asking if this is what I wanted. It is certainly one of the kinds of things that I wanted in terms of locating components of the pertinent systems. You sent me the same picture early on, and I commented on it then, but that might have gotten submerged in the dialog fray. Although the picture resolution is very poor for details, I did go and search the actual assembly in the steering column, including focus on the top front as pointed to in the picture, but I could see nothing there that I could identify as the Transceiver Module. It would make good sense if the module that is claimed to be for my truck were positioned in that region, so as to put the ring part (coil) around the key entry region of the lock cylinder. But there is no such part present at that position. No coil around or near where the key goes; and so far, I can see nothing anywhere else in the steering column in the vicinity of the key. I am very puzzled by this. Please note the Ford part number that I have previously sent you, FORD (6E5Z-15607-AA). It is called "Ignition Immobilizer Module". I think you can find the same info via 'Ford Genuine Parts'. That is where I found it, and that was via
            "www.hennessyfordparts.com/oem-parts/ford-ignition-immobilizer-module-6e5z-15607-aa/.
            There is also an Ignition Switch Module, FORD (5WIZ-11572-AA). I actually found and purchased the latter from AutoZone, and I know where it goes and the new one fits OK. It goes in the lock assembly on the left end (opposite the Key) and mates with the lock cylinder on its back side. I initially thought the Transceiver might be in that Ignition Switch Module, but I suppose it is not, given that it is shown as the separate module referenced above. But I have not found that part anywhere. I have suspected that my truck is not precisely the same as most others of the same year and model. However, the two parts mentioned here were quoted based on my provided VIN number. It is possible that I might actually find the problem cause somewhere else and fix it without ever finding this darn Transceiver Module; but, that is certainly not very satisfying.
            I will search again further, and I have a lot of stuff you have sent to be considering. I will let you know and be in touch.
            If you can, please comment on the two parts mentioned here, and if you have any further information on where the "Immobilizer" is hiding, please let me know.
            Over and out for now, and I'll be back.
            Darrell

            we​ll if you could get codes then you could do a diagnostic trouble tree testing procedure. scan tools some only do pcm while others do the whole systems and they can be pricey. So vehicle is not cranking? Sometimes alldata or Mitchell are incorrect in the their info systems..... usually 98 percent are correct. I will look in both and see if its located elsewhere also sometimes the name might be different as one manuf. might call ita transceiver module while another may call it a pats module.

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            Question about 2008 Ford F 450 Super Duty

            5 Answers

            Anti theft lite on 08 f450 truck will not turn over, took it to ford they kept two days said no communication with their computer, andy ideas??

            Posted by mailman1222 on Sep 05, 2011

            • 9 more comments
            • mailman1222 Sep 05, 2011

              removed fuse 36 5 amp left out for 5 minutes no change removed fuse 36 5 amp left out for 5 minutes no change

            • mailman1222 Sep 05, 2011

              fuse ok power on fuse removed and inspected and left out for 5 minutes no change. no communication with ids security light on flashing fast truck will not do anything (spin over or fuel pump) fuse ok power on fuse removed and inspected and left out for 5 minutes no change. no communication with ids security light on flashing fast truck will not do anything (spin over or fuel pump)

            • mailman1222 Sep 05, 2011

              cannot reflash or check, no communication with ids when computer is plugged in cannot reflash or check, no communication with ids when computer is plugged in

            • mailman1222 Sep 05, 2011

              computer is not the issue replaced still no data out of data link and theft still flashing have donor truck removed parts off of it. any other suggestions

              computer is not the issue replaced still no data out of data link and theft still flashing have donor truck removed parts off of it. any other suggestions

            • mailman1222 Sep 05, 2011

              this truck does not have a theft ring around the cylinder where you put the key in any suggestion as to where it is this truck does not have a theft ring around the cylinder where you put the key in any suggestion as to where it is

            • mailman1222 Sep 05, 2011

              there are no wires going to the lock cylinder only manual cable coming out of switch there are no wires going to the lock cylinder only manual cable coming out of switch

            • mailman1222 Sep 05, 2011

              does not have ring around key on 450 has a blak box mounted to the top of the switch with three wires going to it. Is nothing like to picture you sent me does not have ring around key on 450 has a blak box mounted to the top of the switch with three wires going to it. Is nothing like to picture you sent me

            • mailman1222 Sep 06, 2011

              followed steps as you directed, truck will not turn over or start and theft light is still flashing rapidly on dash. did find on all data that the anti theft is flashing a code 1:6 which is no communication. computer will still not communicate with pcm through obdII followed steps as you directed, truck will not turn over or start and theft light is still flashing rapidly on dash. did find on all data that the anti theft is flashing a code 1:6 which is no communication. computer will still not communicate with pcm through obdII

            • mailman1222 Sep 06, 2011

              ford kept it for several days, they cannot establish a data link that is why i am working on it there can be no data link established between laptop and pcm (ids and pcm) I have the ford software and laptop, but cannot establish a signal to troubleshoot ford kept it for several days, they cannot establish a data link that is why i am working on it there can be no data link established between laptop and pcm (ids and pcm) I have the ford software and laptop, but cannot establish a signal to troubleshoot

            • mailman1222 Sep 06, 2011

              Check fuse number 36 .Its 5 amp fuse.Its located in passenger compartment fuse box.Remove this fuse completely out and inspect, if this fuse is blown, replace it.If its not blown, then let the fuse remain out for 5 minutes, then reinsert the fuse back in its slot.Then check.--------- Thanks.Helpmech.
              Add a comment for helpmech Report abuse

              helpmech
              23 hours ago
              If fuse 36 is checked ok and removing it and reinserting it is not resetting the anti-theft system, Then problem is with ignition key.Or problem with ignition cylinder or the computer.-------- The theft sensor is in the ignition lock cylinder, There is a chip in ignition key, which this lock cylinder sensor detects.If the key chip is faulty or key lock cylinder sensor itself is faulty, then also anti-theft light will not come ON.But if this both are checked ok, then yes its computer related problem.Many a times getting the computer reprogrammed by dealer helps.But in some cases, either theft module or computer needs to be replaced.------------ Thanks.Helpmech. Reply

              helpmech
              10 hours ago
              Then the ignition key and ignition lock cylinder theft sensor.---------- Both needs to be checked.-------- Any of the one is not functioning right, causing no theft light. Also check the voltage at fuse number 36 slot. Where the fuse number 36 is inserted, check there, do you get 12 volts with ignition ON.------------ This will help.Thanks.Helpmech. Reply

              helpmech
              9 hours ago
              There must be the key transponder, where the key cylinder goes is there a black ring around the steering coloum with a connector mounted under it.Either that is the problem, or the problem is with theft controlling IC.-----
              ------------- For the exact location and more details, click the link below:--------http://howtobyme.blogspot.com/2011/09/th... ----------- This will help.Thanks.Helpmech. Reply

              helpmech
              4 hours ago
              Ok, try this procedure.Disconnect car battery terminal, then insert the key in ignition, then turn key to ON position.Then reconnect the car battery and see if car starts and runs, by this procedure.------- Also Replace the key fob battery and see if the car starts after key fob battery is replaced.------ Keep updated.Thanks.Helpmech. Reply

              helpmech
              32 minutes ago
              The anti-theft code is 1:6 which is Faulty link between PATS module and EECV Go to main dealer. --------- 1:6 Faulty link between PATS module and EECV Go to main dealer If the LED illuminates for 4 seconds but the engine does not crank, PATS is working correctly and there is a fault elsewhere. Try starter solenoid or battery. If okay go to main dealer. If the LED illuminates for 4 seconds and the engine cranks but does not start, PATS is working correctly and the fault lies elsewhere. Check the Fuel Cut-Off switch. If okay go to main dealer. If none of the above checks resolves the problem then the system will need to be connected to WDS at a main dealer for a diagnostic check. If the engine starts normally but the LED stays on, wait for one minute. The LED may then flash a code 2:1. This is showing a 'fault' that there are less than 3 keys programmed into PATS. One of more keys need to be programmed to stop this code. Any other code needs referring to the Ford main dealer.------------- OBD II tool will not work.This can be scanned by scan tool at dealer.Its not possible to troubleshoot without an NGS tester or WDS scan tool.That will only tell what is faulty, and as per that troubleshooting will be done.--------- ----------- this will help.Thanks.Helpmech. Reply Check fuse number 36 .Its 5 amp fuse.Its located in passenger compartment fuse box.Remove this fuse completely out and inspect, if this fuse is blown, replace it.If its not blown, then let the fuse remain out for 5 minutes, then reinsert the fuse back in its slot.Then check.--------- Thanks.Helpmech. Add a comment for helpmech Report abuse helpmech 23 hours ago If fuse 36 is checked ok and removing it and reinserting it is not resetting the anti-theft system, Then problem is with ignition key.Or problem with ignition cylinder or the computer.-------- The theft sensor is in the ignition lock cylinder, There is a chip in ignition key, which this lock cylinder sensor detects.If the key chip is faulty or key lock cylinder sensor itself is faulty, then also anti-theft light will not come ON.But if this both are checked ok, then yes its computer related problem.Many a times getting the computer reprogrammed by dealer helps.But in some cases, either theft module or computer needs to be replaced.------------ Thanks.Helpmech. Reply helpmech 10 hours ago Then the ignition key and ignition lock cylinder theft sensor.---------- Both needs to be checked.-------- Any of the one is not functioning right, causing no theft light. Also check the voltage at fuse number 36 slot. Where the fuse number 36 is inserted, check there, do you get 12 volts with ignition ON.------------ This will help.Thanks.Helpmech. Reply helpmech 9 hours ago There must be the key transponder, where the key cylinder goes is there a black ring around the steering coloum with a connector mounted under it.Either that is the problem, or the problem is with theft controlling IC.----- ------------- For the exact location and more details, click the link below:-------- http://howtobyme.blogspot.com/2011/09/theft-control-light-will-not-turn-on.html ----------- This will help.Thanks.Helpmech. Reply helpmech 4 hours ago Ok, try this procedure.Disconnect car battery terminal, then insert the key in ignition, then turn key to ON position.Then reconnect the car battery and see if car starts and runs, by this procedure.------- Also Replace the key fob battery and see if the car starts after key fob battery is replaced.------ Keep updated.Thanks.Helpmech. Reply helpmech 32 minutes ago The anti-theft code is 1:6 which is Faulty link between PATS module and EECV Go to main dealer. --------- 1:6 Faulty link between PATS module and EECV Go to main dealer If the LED illuminates for 4 seconds but the engine does not crank, PATS is working correctly and there is a fault elsewhere. Try starter solenoid or battery. If okay go to main dealer. If the LED illuminates for 4 seconds and the engine cranks but does not start, PATS is working correctly and the fault lies elsewhere. Check the Fuel Cut-Off switch. If okay go to main dealer. If none of the above checks resolves the problem then the system will need to be connected to WDS at a main dealer for a diagnostic check. If the engine starts normally but the LED stays on, wait for one minute. The LED may then flash a code 2:1. This is showing a 'fault' that there are less than 3 keys programmed into PATS. One of more keys need to be programmed to stop this code. Any other code needs referring to the Ford main dealer.------------- OBD II tool will not work.This can be scanned by scan tool at dealer.Its not possible to troubleshoot without an NGS tester or WDS scan tool.That will only tell what is faulty, and as per that troubleshooting will be done.--------- ----------- this will help.Thanks.Helpmech. Reply

            • Yannick Hurtubise Aug 12, 2012

              is there any way that i can bypass the thetf?? is there any way that i can bypass the thetf??

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            MARGARET PENNINGTON

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            Re: Anti theft lite on 08 f450 truck will not turn over,...

            I have a 2008 ford f550 super duty with the anti theft light blinking it blinks fast for about 2 mins then slows and blinks once then six time at about once a sec. Any help plz

            Posted on Oct 27, 2016

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              mattexhausts

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              Re: Anti theft lite on 08 f450 truck will not turn over,...

              If you use a bump button to start the truck with the key in the on position you can use a code reader and delete the codes then it should start if this is the problem it has probably got to do with your dpf

              Posted on Oct 03, 2012

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              • mattexhausts Oct 03, 2012

                i just had customer with the dpf problem ford told them they could not fix i fixed it in about 2 mins i just had customer with the dpf problem ford told them they could not fix i fixed it in about 2 mins

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              Yannick Hurtubise

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              Re: Anti theft lite on 08 f450 truck will not turn over,...

              Is there any way that i can bypass the theft???

              Posted on Aug 12, 2012

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                gerry bissi

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                • Ford Master
                • 4,369 Answers

                Re: Anti theft lite on 08 f450 truck will not turn over,...

                You somehow activated the antithft system. Did someone reach in and open a door from the inside with it locked? Can you recall how it activated? It should be flashing fast now.

                There are alarm deactivation switches on the driver door lock and other outside door locks. You should have been able to unluck any door with a key fob or a key, and deactivated the alarm. Maybe you have a door deactivaion switch that is bad.

                Start there.

                Posted on Sep 06, 2011

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                • gerry bissi Sep 06, 2011

                  PS, this hsould be covered by warranty if within warranty and a defective switch PS, this hsould be covered by warranty if within warranty and a defective switch

                • gerry bissi Sep 06, 2011

                  The battery musrt be fully charged.

                  Here is some info:

                  SECTION 419-01: Anti-Theft - Passive Anti-Theft System (PATS)

                  2008 F-Super Duty 250-550 Workshop Manual

                  DESCRIPTION AND OPERATION
                  Procedure revision date: 01/02/2007

                  Anti-Theft Printable View (83 KB)

                  NOTE: If a new instrument cluster (IC) or the PCM (or both) is installed, the parameters MUST be reset in both modules or the vehicle will experience a passive anti-theft system (PATS) no-start. This will occur even if the vehicle is not equipped with PATS. Refer to Passive Anti-Theft System (PATS) Parameter Reset in this section.

                  The PATS is available on this vehicle as an option. The vehicle must be ordered with or without PATS as per the customer. It is not a dealer-installed option.

                  PATS consists of the following components:


                  • Anti-theft indicator (located in the IC)
                  • Encoded (the key contains a transponder) ignition key
                  • PATS transceiver
                  • IC
                  • PCM

                  PATS uses radio frequency identification technology to deter a drive-away theft. Passive means that it does not require any activity by the user.

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                  Related Questions:

                  1Answer

                  What is the exact location of the antitheft fuse box?

                  Explain anti-theft fuse box ! what do you think this is ? There is an anti-theft system on your vehicle , called PATS - passive anti theft system .Sorry , but there is not anti-theft fuse box .
                  Anti-Theft -Passive Anti-Theft System (PATS) The passive anti-theft system (PATS) contains the following components:

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                  Ford Passive Anti-theft System (PATS) - KCSS ...

                  https://kcss-transportation-technology.wikispaces.com/share/.../61579706

                  The passive anti-theft system (PATS) uses radio frequency identification .... This hasreset instructions when you get to the point where she turns over but won't ... Took the truck to a Ford dealer and they recommended replacing the ... http://www.f150forum.com/f6/1999-f150-4-6-wont-start-anti-theft-light-flashing-129601/Missing: learn

                  Reference: - Ford Anti-Theft (PATS) ' FordForumsOnline.com

                  www.fordforumsonline.com > Ford Tech Forums > Sound & Security


                  Oct 26, 2010 - 16 posts - ‎3 authors
                  Ford SecuriLock Overview PATS is a vehicle security feature ... be noted that PATS is not your Remote Keyless Entry (Key Fob). ... The PATS Control Modules flashes the "Theft" lamp to show system ... keys are currently qualified for the 2000/1Taurus/Sable, 2001 Windstar, ..... 1999 Taurus DOHC 145,000.Missing: learn

                  Reprogramming procedure for Mercury, Ford and Lincoln ...

                  www.autorepairinstructions.com/?p=171

                  Jan 14, 2016 | Ford Cars & Trucks

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                  Changed battery truck wont start

                  Jan 03, 2016 | Cars & Trucks

                  2Answers

                  Lincoln tow car 2001 passive anti tip DTC 1260 I replaced pcm.trancevier.instrument cluster.2new ignition key but no communication this module what possible problem this?

                  No where in the DTC - description does it say anything about replacing any modules . An does not have anything to do with a communication problem ! You need a professional grade scan tool to communicate with the PATS system ! An if you don't know these thing's you better take it to pro !!!!!!!
                  P1260 - Theft Detected - Vehicle Immobilized Indicates that the passive anti-theft system (PATS) has determined a theft condition existed and the engine is disabled. This DTC is a good indicator to check the PATS for DTCs.

                  • Previous theft condition
                  • Anti-Theft System failure

                  Theft indicator flashing rapidly or on solid when ignition switch is in the ON position. Check anti-theft system for DTCs. Typical vehicle symptoms are: Start/Stall or Crank/No Start. NOTE: No crank symptom only on vehicles equipped with PATS starter disable feature

                  Apr 04, 2015 | 2001 Lincoln Town Car

                  1Answer

                  I have a*****ford escape, all the warning lights go on and off

                  I'm no mechanic and am only making a guess... could be your computer needs re-programed or one of the many fuses is bad.

                  Mar 27, 2014 | 2008 Ford Escape

                  1Answer

                  I have a f150 2000 v8 triton motor, i drove it the other day it started fine, than I went to start it again and it wouldnt start, than it started when i took to garage they said it was fuel pump and

                  If the anti-theft light is flashing, I would think it is a problem with the key or the anti-theft system. The system would kill the power to the fuel system.

                  Aug 29, 2012 | 2000 Ford F150 Flareside SuperCab

                  1Answer

                  2004 Ford Explorer wont start after battery change-anti theft

                  sounds like aaa might have popped your main fuse. i would call aaa back and tell them your problem. they are responsible.

                  Mar 22, 2010 | 2004 Ford Explorer

                  1Answer

                  Ford five hundred has flashing light on dash for engine lock out. key will not turn over to start engine. book says to see dealership

                  sounds like chip key is not communicating with host computer. Part of anti-theft. probably a good idea to see dealer.

                  Jan 04, 2010 | 2007 Ford Five Hundred Limited Sedan

                  1Answer

                  I HAVE A 98 FORD EXPLORER THAT WILL ONLY START WIITH ONE OF TWO KEYS AND THEN ONLY SOMETIMES. COULD IT BE A PROBLEM WITH THE CHIP IN THE KEY COMMUNICATING WITH THE COMPUTERS ANTI-THEFT MODULE?

                  That's a very good posibility. If the anti-theft light flashes rapidly when you try to start the car with the suspect key, you will need to have a dealer program the keys. Good Luck and please leave rating.

                  Dec 13, 2008 | 1998 Ford Explorer

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                        JUST TOO MUCH INFO ON THAT PAGE GO TO THIS LINK http://www.fixya.com/cars/t10343254-anti_theft_lite_08

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                        TH​ERE IS A LOT OF USE FUL INFO I TRIED TO DO JUST SOME OF THEN ALL OF IT JUST BEST YOU READ THRU IT. THERE IS A LOT OF HELP FUL INsight from many people. a lot of help stuff. you could find a mobile mechanic who would be willing to scan it for you.

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                        Customer reply replied 2 months ago
                        Eric, thanks. This still more interesting stuff to read. I certainly have enough to keep me busy for a while. Let me comment here on a couple of questions that I would like to resolve as soon as I can:(1) On reading codes via the OBDII port, as I said earlier, my reader (Actron CP9575, hand held unit) powers up OK when plugged into the OBD port, and it tries several times to connect to the vehicle computer system. Then it issues an error message, indicating "Link Error" (communication error) and gives me a chance to keep trying. It reads no codes of any kind from the computer system; it cannot access it. It is supposed to work on Fords, and I am told by a local Ford garage that there should be no incompatibility and it should work. It does work OK on my other vehicles. So I am thinking that there is a likely problem with the computer system or the communication path between the OBD port and the computer system. And if that is so, it seems that the OBD read failure and the PATS system failure are likely to share the same cause. It is much less probable that there would be two such simultaneous problems with independent causes;
                        So my questions is: Do you think a fancier reader might be able to read useful information, given that this Actron unit cannot access the computer at all. I can see that this could possibly be so if it employed technical improvements in the communication hardware to overcome a fault condition; but, the fault condition is of course still there. I would love to have a reader that could communicate generally with all information available, and I agree with you that this could likely benefit finding the problem, but probably in exception of finding basic communication faults. Are you aware of any economical OBDII readers that read everything available?(2) Early on in our dialog, I received the question (perhaps from you): "Have you reset the computer?"
                        I replied that I have no idea how that is done in this case. Most computer systems, general purpose or application embedded, do their necessary resets and/or initialization every time they are powered up. My question here: Is there a potential condition in this case in which the "computer" should be Reset? And if so, how do we do it? And is the "computer" referring to the "PCM" unit (Power-train Computer Module)? In several Web articles, I have seen questions referring to need to Reset the Computer; but, I have not seen any clarification of this. There are also comments about need to Reset the system after a Theft Alarm, as though something special has to be done to return it function. Can you clarify on this?Thanks, ***** ***** At this point, I probably will just need to chat with you some at times, with some back and forth on such questions as above; and, your 'Off the Cuff' answers will be helpful. I also can understand if you are not sure of the answer and do not fault you for that in any way. Information from your experience is still valuable to me.I will be buried in all this stuff for quite a while, with frequent trips out to my dead truck to apply what acrobatic skills I have to get in position to examine it. That is, as long as I am not being called to fix something else. Thank you again, and I will be in touch later. DRW.

                        t​ry to disconnect the instrunment cluster and see if you can commu icate then. if not disconnect one module at a time...of course all your fuses are good. one module can pull down the whole network

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                        o​ther than disconnecting the battery I know of no way.other than with a scanner. I wonder if you had an all module capable scanner if you would vbe able to communicate with the other modules or is one module or something in that affected modules circuit effecting communication? I have heard of this and seen it one instance personally. but by disconnecting one at a time you should be able to get commun ication at obd 2 connector are all power and grounds good at the connector? I sent a schematic of that

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                        I​ believe a couple of weeks a go a tech at my shop had an comm. issue on a ford miising fuse...go figure

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                        pcm codes may help but they may not have all but it may give you enough to lead you to a diagnosis but I think the comm and no start are related like a bad cluster maybe

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                        Customer reply replied 2 months ago
                        Eric, that's a good idea. I assume that the OBD read is expected to work OK with the Instrument Cluster disconnected for a healthy system. I was unsure of that. I can easily disconnect the cluster module, but not sure about what others I can disconnect. I will have to find them first. I think I can disconnect at least some of the stuff in the Steering column.
                        On the missing fuse matter, that does seem a bit weird. Mine does have a number of missing fuses, that I interpret to be for features not included in my truck. But I do know that all are present now that were there when my truck was working OK.

                        eneral Service Bulletin (GSB):
                        No Network Communication GSB

                        GSB Overview:

                        34b091f6-39a1-40aa-a5dc-...jpg34b091f...jpgd860b1ff-4708-41bd-af44-...jpgd860b1f...jpg1ebe5086-aa1d-4740-a39a-...jpg1ebe508...jpge27482d7-27e4-43f2-9be5-...jpge27482d...jpg3f2b8d85-0dd1-4261-b6bb-...jpg3f2b8d8...jpg6a16f140-7d05-46df-a065-...jpg6a16f14...jpg41e95744-7e76-4618-b04c-...jpg41e9574...jpg
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                        more of that no comm network

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                        these are all very relevant to our discussion

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                          2008 Ford Truck F 150 2WD V6-4.2L

                          Vehicle » Powertrain Management » Computers and Control Systems » Information Bus » Technical Service Bulletins » All Technical Service Bulletins » CAN System - Testing Information

                          • CAN System - Testing Information

                          General Service Bulletin (GSB): Live Network Monitor Test

                          GSB Overview:
                          The Live Network Monitor Test allows you to test the vehicles Module
                          Communication Network circuitry both statically and during a test drive.

                          NOTE : This information is not intended to replace or supersede any warranty, parts and service policy, Work Shop Manual (WSM) procedures or technical training or wiring diagram information.

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                          did the obd 2 connector test prove affirmative with the test of the circuits powers and grounds etc>?

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                          d​id you receive that with the numbered connectors and their purpose? obd 2 connector

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                            2008 Ford Truck F 150 2WD V6-4.2L

                            Vehicle » Powertrain Management » Computers and Control Systems » Information Bus » Testing and Inspection » Initial Inspection and Diagnostic Overview » Module Communications Network » Inspection and Verification

                            • Inspection and Verification

                            INSPECTION AND VERIFICATION

                            1. Verify the customer concern.
                            2. Visually inspect for obvious signs of electrical damage.

                            VISUAL INSPECTION CHART

                            Electrical

                            • Central junction box (CJB) fuse(s):
                            • 1 (10A) (instrument cluster [IC])
                            • 3 (7.5A) (driver seat module [DSM])
                            • 5 (7.5A) (heating ventilation air conditioning [HVAC] module)
                            • 13 (10A) (HVAC module)
                            • 14 (10A) (ABS module)
                            • 15 (5A) (IC)
                            • 18 (10A) (vehicle security module [VSM], parking aid module [PAM])
                            • 19 (10A) (RCM)
                            • 21 (15A) (IC)
                            • 27 (5A) (IC)
                            • 103 (20A) (ABS module)
                            • 107 (30A) (VSM)
                            • 109 (30A) (DSM)
                            • 110 (20A) (no power to scan tool)
                            • 112 (40A ) (ABS)
                            • Data link connector (DLC)
                            • Wiring, terminals or connectors
                            1. If an obvious cause for an observed or reported concern is found, correct the cause (if possible) before proceeding to the next step.
                            2. NOTE: Make sure to use the latest scan tool software release.

                            If the cause is not visually evident, connect the scan tool to the DLC.

                            NOTE: The vehicle communication module (VCM) LED prove-out confirms power and ground from the DLC are provided to the VCM.

                            If the scan tool does not communicate with the VCM:

                            1. NOTE: During the network test, the scan tool will first attempt to communicate with the PCM, after establishing communication with the PCM, the scan tool will then attempt to communicate with all other modules on the vehicle.

                            Carry out the network test.

                            • If the network test passes, retrieve and record the continuous memory DTCs and proceed to Step 6.
                            • If the network test fails, GO to Symptom Chart to identify the module not communicating. See: Symptom Related Diagnostic Procedures
                            1. If the DTCs retrieved are related to the concern, go to DTC Charts. For all other DTCs, refer to Body Control Systems (Multifunction Electronic Control Module). See: Diagnostic Trouble Code Tests and Associated Procedures\Module Communications Network
                            2. If no DTCs related to the concern are retrieved, GO to Symptom Chart. See: Symptom Related Diagnostic Procedures

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                          • Conversion Calculator 2008 Ford Truck F 150 2WD V6-4.2LVehicle » Powertrain Management » Computers and Control Systems » Information Bus » Testing and Inspection » Initial Inspection and Diagnostic Overview » Module Communications Network » Principles of Operation
                              Principles of Operation

                            PRINCIPLES OF OPERATION

                            Vehicle communication utilizes a high speed controller area network (HS-CAN), International Standards Organization (ISO) 9141 network and universal asynchronous receiver/transmitter (UART) based protocol (UBP) network. Information is sent to and from individual control modules that each control specific functions. All 3 networks are connected to the data link connector (DLC). The DLC can be found under the instrument panel between the steering column and the audio control module (ACM).

                            The 3 module communication networks are:

                          • High speed (HS) CAN
                          • ISO 9141
                          • UBP
                          • ISO 9141 Communications Network
                            The ISO 9141 communications network is a single wire network. The ISO 9141 communications network does not permit intermodule communication. When the scan tool communicates to modules on the ISO 9141 communication network, the scan tool must request all information; the modules cannot initiate communications. The ISO 9141 network operates at a maximum data transfer speed of 10.4 Kbps .

                            The following modules are on the ISO 9141 network:

                          • Parking aid module (PAM) (if equipped)
                          • Restraints control module (RCM)
                          • The following fault chart describes the specific ISO 9141 network failures and their resulting symptom:

                            ISO 9141 Network Communication Fault Chart

                            HS-CAN
                            The HS-CAN uses an unshielded twisted pair cable of data (+) and data (-) circuits. The data (+) and the data (-) circuits are each regulated to approximately 2.5 volts during neutral or rested network traffic. As bus messages are sent on the data (+) circuit, voltage is increased by approximately 1.0 volt . Inversely, the data (-) circuit is reduced by approximately 1.0 volt when a bus message is sent. Multiple bus messages can be sent over the CAN circuits allowing network modules to communicate with each other.

                            The CAN bus (+) and bus (-) circuits must always be terminated. The network termination of the CAN bus takes place inside the 2 termination modules, the PCM and the instrument cluster (IC), by resistors rated at 120 ohms , located across the (+) and (-) circuits. The resistors are wired in parallel to the network bus circuits for a total operating resistance of 60 ohms on a good network.

                            The HS-CAN operates at a maximum data transfer speed of 500 Kbps and remains operational at a degraded level when certain circuit faults are present. The HS-CAN bus may remain operational with only one termination resistor present.

                            The following modules are on the HS-CAN:

                             

                          • ABS module
                          • IC
                          • PCM with integrated 4X4 control module
                          • The following fault chart describes the specific HS-CAN failures and their resulting symptom:

                            HS-CAN Communication Fault Chart

                            Universal Asynchronous Receiver-Transmitter (UART)-Based Protocol (UBP) Communications Network
                            The UBP communications network is a single circuit communications network, circuit 1906 (VT). The UBP communications network does not function if the wire is shorted to ground or voltage. The UBP communications network allows intermodule communication. The UBP network operates at a maximum data transfer speed of 9.6 Kbps . The UBP network circuit is regulated to approximately 12.0 volts during neutral or rested network traffic. This voltage is reduced proportional to the volume of bus messages sent.

                            The following modules are on the UBP network:

                             

                          • Heating ventilation air conditioning (HVAC) module (if equipped)
                          • Driver seat module (DSM) (if equipped)
                          • Instrument cluster (IC)
                          • Vehicle security module (VSM)
                          • The following fault chart describes the specific UBP network failures and their resulting symptom:

                            UBP Network Communication Fault Chart

                            The following chart describes all network messages broadcast on HS-CAN, SCP and UBP by each module, and the module(s) that receive the message:
                            Network Module Communication Message Chart (Part 1)
                            Network Module Communication Message Chart (Part 2)

                             

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                            Customer reply replied 1 month ago
                            Thanks, Eric. I am glad to have the CAN Bus dialog information, as it can shed some insight. I do not have any CAN Bus test tools or analyzers other than my OBDII reader. Wish I did. I might can find one that I can afford or rent one, should that become necessary. I have not yet had a chance to perform any further tests on the truck, Hopefully I can tomorrow. Anyway, thank you for the additional information. It is very interesting to me. I had not yet found that kind of thing on the Web, probably because I just did not know what to search for. Please comment about available OBDII readers that are fairly economical, if you know of any right off. I note that Kvaser has a neat CAN tool, but I do not know the price. I have requested that. In any case, I will be trying the OBDII read with certain modules removed from the bus, as you suggested, as soon as I get the chance.
                            DRW
                            Customer reply replied 1 month ago
                            Eric, the "No Network Communication" pages look to be really useful. I am excited about looking into that. I certainly have scopes and meters to use. Thank you again.You need to take a break and get some sleep. I have enough to go on at the moment. DRW.

                            autel is probably the best bang for the buck

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                            Customer reply replied 1 month ago
                            Eric, I just wanted to tell you that I am very pleased with the information you have sent me, especially the figures and text information on the CAN bus topology being used. I was familiar with the CAN bus, of course, but not of the manner and extent in which it is used here. This is fun and exciting stuff, and I am anxious to be able to rig up (later on) to communicate with the CAN bus network more generally. I am limited on what I can do with it right now, but when I get time later, I will probably try to rig up to do that and play around with it more. The commercial interface adapters and analyzer hardware is pretty expensive, but there are experimental modules and assemblies that are reasonably low priced. And I noticed that Kvaser.com (a Denmark company) has free download application software for Windows and Linux, that can be used for analysis of the network code. The little Arduino processor kit family also offers a CAN interface board, too; and that is very interesting. For now, I just need to get the truck fixed; and, I think you have given me enough information to help me do that.
                            Just having the pin identifications and expected power and signal voltage levels on the OBDII port is very beneficial to me, too. Thank you, ***** ***** I am glad I discovered you. I am about to get a chance to make some tests and measurements on the truck, and I will certainly keep you posted on my progress and other questions that might pop up.Please note that I have already responded to the request for rating you. Gave you 5 stars, since that's all they had. I will be happy to comment with any other feedback that is desired.

                            Thanks for using Just Answer God Bless

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                            Customer reply replied 1 month ago
                            Hi, Eric. This is Darrell Word again on my F250 SD issue. I am still working on the same problem as I have time to do so. It boils down to troubleshooting the OBDII network. I am attempting to selectively isolate portions of the network, using existing cable connectors, but in most cases, I can only crudely guess what network nodes are affected. I can of course recognize the single connector to the instrument cluster and a few other places, but for the most part, it is unclear what I am affecting when I disconnect a section of the cable harness. I am still very frustrated that I cannot seem to find on the web much of the documentation I need, and the Ford dealer cannot seem to, either, although he says he is trying to.If you can locate and provide the following items that are clearly associated with my vehicle, it will be much appreciated and very helpful. I will understand if you cannot; but, I figure you have access to more info than I do on Fords.Item (1): I need a block diagram (or pictorial) of the cable harness(s), and hopefully connector ID of some sort that allows me to associate the connectors with their physical functions. Ideally, this would be ID association with a circuit diagram; but, failing that, even a lable saying what module they go to would be good.Item (2): A complete circuit diagram (or set of diagrams) that show the entire digital network and node components, that is clearly associated with my truck, would be a real plus. You did provide me with some very useful material and notes on this, but if you run across a more concisely associated and complete diagram set, please send to me.Just so my VIN is handy for you, it is VIN: 1FTSX215X8EE54636 ( 2008 F250 SD V8 5.4 2WD ).Thanks, ***** ***** I will check back with you later.Best regards,
                            Darrell

                            is there something specific you want me to find

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                            Customer reply replied 1 month ago
                            Eric,
                            The primary need is Item (1) above, in the form of a description of the cable harness that contains the interconnection wiring, with some form of identification of the various connectors within the harness and to the various modules that are on the vehicle network. This should help me identify the purpose of each individual connector that I can access in my testing. I am supposing that there is likely a set of several 'harness' assemblies that make up the entire cabling system (rather than just one harness), but I would like to see all of the network connections.The Item (2), a complete circuit diagram that specifically describes the circuits in my truck could be very helpful, too, if available. From what you have already sent me and what I was able to find, I have diagrams for parts of the system, but it is not clear to what extent they apply to my vehicle. (For example, I have some circuits for F250 with Diesel engine, or F150 with gas engine, etc., but not a complete set for my truck; and, I do not know how they might deviate).Presently, I can now monitor a code signal on the CAN Bus at the OBDII port, using an oscilloscope, and it is behaving fairly well in terms of signal bias levels and pulse voltages, etc. But, it has a spurious higher amplitude pulse occurring at the end of each code sequence, and I suspect this is related to the problem cause. I can troubleshoot that OK if I can obtain enough documentation on the system.There are scads of cable harness pictorials and block diagrams on the Web, and of course many circuit diagrams; but, it seems like "pulling hen's teeth" to find stuff for my Ford. When I search, using essential descriptors, I might get one or two Ford pages of the wrong kind, and then a whole bunch from numerous other brands.Again, Eric, I realize it might be difficult for you to locate what I am asking for (specific docs for my particular truck). The local Ford Dealer service manager was not able to find anything very useful, and he was trying very hard to help.Thanks,
                            DRW

                            cdl

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                            computer data lines is what I jjust sent let me know if that helps or if you need anytging else....Mitchell schematics they are the best

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                            If you cant read these let me know and Ill send in different format

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                            Customer reply replied 1 month ago
                            Eric,
                            Thank you. The information in the last two diagrams you sent should be very helpful to me in my present efforts. This is certainly the sort of information I want. The larger one, showing the CAN Bus over numerous node modules (va283962 at the top margin) is usable, but if you have a clearer and brighter copy of it, please send. The schematic I received is dim and greyish, and some of the lighter colored conductors are invisible in places. I can make do with it, but will appreciate any more legible form that you have.Please comment: Are these and similar ones available generally on the Web, or is this from a proprietary source? Also, I am wondering if there is available anywhere a fairly comprehensive technical manual containing documentation of this form. Chilton and Haynes manuals are not very useful for this. Does Ford provide a Web source that I can access?Thanks, ***** *****
                            DarrellBTW, I got text notification about 30 minutes ago that some information was sent from you, but I have not discovered it here as yet. I will check further to see. DRW.
                            Customer reply replied 1 month ago
                            Eric,
                            I am just checking to see if I have received further messages from you. Not meaning to rush you. I was also concerned that I seem to have received more message notifications than messages, and I was wondering if I might be overlooking something, or perhaps the notifications are just delayed ones from earlier.I would like your comments on my previous message, regarding documentation sources.Regards,
                            Darrell

                            th​ere is a alldata do it yourself pay like 28 buck and you can have access to everything on alldata for one year for your vehicle alldata is like Mitchell...Ill see if I can find alldata schematics

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                            o​r I can give you access to my source of alldata give you username and password *****'t want to post this online do you have email?

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                            Customer reply replied 1 month ago
                            Eric,Thank you. It is very kind for you to offer that to me. If you do not mind doing it, that might be the simplest and most expedient approach for right now. I certainly do not wish to cause you any undue difficulty or concern in doing that; and, I will be glad to compensate you for any added cost to you related to my use of the source. Hopefully, I will not need to obtain much more information beyond what you have sent me. I think I am to the point now, such that I can troubleshoot the network if I am able to locate enough of the node stations that are using it, and identify related connectors.Although my little hand-held OBD reader cannot complete its communications (gets a 'Link Error'), I can observe the CAN Bus lines (pins 6 and 14 and ground 4) at the OBDII port, using an oscilloscope. With Ignition On, and of course, Engine not running, I can watch message frames on the Bus, as some network entities are actively transmitting. I can see full message frames and delineate the wave forms well enough (I think) to decipher the binary coding throughout the message frame. I have not yet tried to do that, but I intend to. The pulses are clean, and the voltage levels are approximately as they should be. One obvious exception of possible importance is that, for the last pulse interval in the Frame (for every message), the amplitude is anomalously high. When observing the differential voltage between CAN(+) and CAN(-), all pulse excursions have a uniform 2.0 V amplitude, whereas the last pulse excursion is 3.0 V. All nice square pulses, except that the last one goes to a higher peak voltage. It appears that a single bit interval measures about 2 us in width; and, assuming that I am seeing the entire Frame, that last pulse is probably part of the IFS (Inter-Frame Space) 7 bit sequence at the end of the Frame. There are only a few (not sure how many) distinct messages that are being repeated, and I find that they are the same each time I capture them; and, the anomalous larger end pulse is on every message. I will be examining the said messages to see if I can identify the Standard Specified 11 component parts of the Frame, from the Start of Frame (SOF) bit through the IAS 7 bit word, including the Data interval and the related CRC (16 bit) Cyclic Redundancy Check word. If I am able to make sense of the binary data in this manner, I might can get a better handle on the problem cause. If I cannot, I will just keep looking for some other obvious Net Member fault or power voltage fault, etc.I do not yet know if the larger last pulse is of concern (might be just a tolerated artifact of this system). It is plausible that the binary code interpreted from this waveform is OK (in itself), but some other circuit fault could be the actual cause of communication failure, while incidentally resulting in the large end pulse. If you have any insights regarding this larger end pulse, please comment.Eric, my intent is not to cause you to have to dig into the coding details, etc.; but, I thought you might be interested in this and have some thoughts on it. I can send you a sample Frame signal plot if you are interested. I suppose I can do that via this present medium, but I am not yet sure how to do it. Please comment to me on how to attach (or include) a document.Sorry, I got a bit long winded here. I will check in tomorrow to see if you have had time to reply.If you want to email me something, probably best to use the following email address: "*****@******.***". You can find other contact information for me in the IEEE data base, etc., but this address will be convenient for me right now. I will very much appreciate getting to use your document source, as you offered, if you don't mind doing that. And I will certainly treat it respectfully ***** ***** expect to continue such usage.Thank you, ***** ***** I will be back in touch.
                            Darrell

                            Dr. will email you that tonight

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                            eric remington
                            eric remington
                            eric remington
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