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I have a 2003 Ford Windstar 3.8, does not fire on the #2 and

#5, i'm at my wits...
I have a 2003 Ford Windstar 3.8, does not fire on the #2 and #5, i'm at my wits end trying to figure this out, HELP!
JA: Are you fixing your Windstar yourself? What have you tried so far?
Customer: I have replaced crank and cam sensor, plugs and wires and coil, and the end plug to the coil
JA: Does the vehicle stall at low speeds? Does it sputter?
Customer: it runs fine on 4 cylinders, check engine light comes on and says its the coil, I am on my 3rd coil thinking I might have gotten a bad one from the parts store
JA: Anything else you want the mechanic to know before I connect you?
Customer: I have checked the wiring for breaks
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Answered in 1 minute by:
9/13/2017
AMEDEE
AMEDEE, FORD TECHNICIAN
Category: Ford
Satisfied Customers: 26,920
Experience: ASE CERTIFIED TECHNICIAN ADVANCED LEVEL SPECIALIST. Wisconsin certified emissions state inspector
Verified

Hello and welcome!

My name is ***** ***** I can assist you with your question.

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I am very sorry your having this issue with your vehicle.

I will try my best to answer all of your questions.

However, before we get started, please let me mention a few things.

1. If at any point you would like to speak on the phone, please feel free to request a phone call on your end and I can call you right away.

2. If you dont understand any technical terms or anything that I mention (component tests or theory or operation), please let me know and I will provide you with a more in debt explanation or answer.

3. Please understand that I am here to help.

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Can I get the code or codes stored in the computer?

Would you be willing to speak on the phone?

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
the code that was in the computer said it was the coil, I replaced the Coil again, currently the are no codes since I zeroed them out when the battery was disconnected, I haven't ran it long enough since for the check engine light to come on.
Customer reply replied 3 months ago
I will talk to you Thursday if you think it's necessary, i'm away from the vehicle right now and won't be back with it until then, i'm also a mechanic, both on cars and trucks and aircraft. I've never encountered a problem like this
Customer reply replied 3 months ago
If you can solve this problem I will gladly pay 26.00, by the way what was the 5.00 for?

Sounds good no problem.

Was the PCM replaced?

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
Are you still there?

YES, I am waiting for your reply.

Do you see my last response?

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Are you still there sir?

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
No the PCM wasn't replaced, another mechanic told me that them PCM wouldn't do that, was he wrong?

Generally speaking, no.. although it could. I will explain.

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
Please go ahead explain

Cylinders 2 and 5 are not sister cylinders. If the driver inside the PCM went bad, it would prevent one circuit to the ignition coil from firing two cylinders... which would be sister cylinders.

Although the PCM could be bad acting strange, I have NEVER seen it go bad this way.

Would you like to know the root cause?

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
please tell me the root cause

The problem is the cam/crank signal alignment. The cam and crank signals are out of time with each other and the computer is basically confused. Ford came out with a TSB about this condition. It talks about the camshaft synchronizer being the issue or the cam timing as the root cause. Ford makes a special tool for this job. If you don't use the special tool, you need to use a lab scope to line it up correctly. Otherwise, this condition will occur.

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I strongly suspect that is the issue. Another possible cause would be a faulty harmonic balancer or damaged teeth on the trigger wheel of the balancer causing an erratic crank signal back of the computer. Unless this was checked? If not, I would check this first and replace as needed.

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
Can you tell me how i'm to correct this or is there a manual with the procedure in it?

I have attached this TSB I was talking about. It explains this in detail. I suggest reading into this very carefully and going back over everything. If it is installed correctly, it is possible that the synchronizer itself is damaged and may need to be replaced. Click on the link below to view the TSB.

Click here

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
please respond, i'm going to have to go, thank you

Does not look like the TSB came through. Here it is..

FORD:

1994-1997 THUNDERBIRD

1995-2003 TAURUS

1996-2003 MUSTANG

1995-1997 AEROSTAR

1995-2003 RANGER, WINDSTAR

1996-2000 EXPLORER

1997-2003 E SERIES, F-150

MERCURY:

1994-1997 COUGAR

1995-2003 SABLE

1997-2000 MOUNTAINEER

ISSUE:

Incorrectly installed gear driven camshaft position (CMP) sensor synchronizer assemblies may be hard to diagnose. Vehicle may exhibit poor fuel economy, driveability Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTCs) P1336, P1309, P0340 with MIL light on. Loss of power, surge, hesitation and runs rough on acceleration may also be present.

ACTION:

New diagnostics have been developed for WDS to diagnose incorrectly installed gear driven camshaft position (CMP) synchronizer assemblies. Refer to the following Service Procedure to diagnose a possible mis-installed synchronizer assembly and proper installation procedure.

SERVICE INFORMATION

Items Covered In This Article:

"Hall" vs. "VRS" sensor function

Vehicle history scrutiny for past service of the synchronizer assembly

WDS - Power balance test

WDS - CMP and CKP wave signal comparison

Wave Comparison chart - CMP vs. CKP

Correct (CMP) synchronizer installation tool application & installation procedure

"Top Dead Center" (TDC) alignment

Synchronizer installation tool application chart

Hall - Effect (Hall) and Variable Reluctance (VRS) CMP Sensors

CMP sensors are used on all current model year engines, regardless of fuel system or ignition system type. The CMP sensor provides the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) with cam position information to indicate # 1 cylinder, on the compression stroke

There are two different types of CMP sensors:

The three- pin, Hall-effect sensor

The two-pin Variable Reluctance sensor

Although the Hall-effect and the Variable Reluctance (two-pin) CMP sensors perform the same function, their signal appearance is quite different and they are not interchangeable.

The three-pin Hall-effect sensor uses a Hall effect device and a magnet to generate a digital square wave signal

The two-pin Variable Reluctance sensor is a magnetic transducer, which uses differential voltage across windings to generate a voltage waveform that is similar to a sine wave

Both sensors provide a switching voltage as the engine rotates.

SERVICE PROCEDURE

If you suspect that a vehicle (engine) may have had the synchronizer assembly installed incorrectly, check the vehicle history to see if related service has been performed. If you determine that the synchronizer could have been installed incorrectly, use the following procedure with WDS to verify correct installation.

NOTE: CORRECT CAMSHAFT POSITION SYNCHRONIZER ASSEMBLY INSTALLATION IS CRITICAL. AN INCORRECTLY INSTALLED SYNCHRONIZER CAN CAUSE HARD TO DIAGNOSE DRIVEABILITY CONDITIONS AND POSSIBLE SERIOUS ENGINE DAMAGE.

Reasons for incorrect installation are:

Not setting the # 1 cylinder on Top Dead Center (TDC) of the compression stroke

Use of the incorrect camshaft synchronizer tool for installation

Incorrect alignment of the synchronizer tool

Power Balance Test In WDS

The WDS Power Balance Test can be used to quickly determine if the CMP synchronizer assembly is installed incorrectly. Use the following procedure.

Run the vehicle while viewing the power balance test in WDS to ensure that no engine misses are occurring.

Shut the engine off and remove the # 1 cylinder injector electrical connector.

Start the engine and view the WDS power balance test.

The test should indicate a power loss in the # 1 cylinder.

If the # 1 cylinder is indicated, then the CMP synchronizer assembly IS NOT grossly mis-installed. Continue to Step 5 in this procedure

If any other cylinder is indicated during the power balance test, then the CMP synchronizer assembly HAS BEEN INSTALLED INCORRECTLY, and must be reinstalled. (Refer to the installation procedure, tool chart and TDC reference described in this TSB, or refer to the appropriate model year Workshop Manual Section 303-14, Synchronizer-Camshaft).

If power loss is indicated in the # 1 cylinder ( Figure 4 ), connect a 104 pin break-out box between the PCM and the PCM electrical connector.

Insert the red WDS probe into pin # 21 and the black WDS probe into pin # 85 of the break-out Box.

Select oscilloscope from the WDS Toolbox.

Select "Channel one Auto Mode", then select the Crankshaft Position (CKP) sensor.

Select "Channel two Auto Mode", then select the CMP sensor based on whether it is a VRS (2-pin) or Hall-effect (3 pin) CMP sensor.

Press the start button and view both the CKP sensor as well as the CMP sensor signals. Figure 6 , 7 and 8).

Compare the wave forms of both sensors.

The missing tooth of the CKP sensor trigger wheel will be shown on the screen as an extra space between the wave forms. This position is 60° Before Top Dead Center (BTDC)

The upper peaks of the wave form are each spaced 10° of crankshaft rotation apart

The CMP timing setting on all current 6-cylinder engines should be between 10 and 40° After Top Dead Center (ATDC)

On all Hall-effect sensors, the CMP wave form rising edge should occur between the 7th and the 10th peak past the missing tooth.

On the VRS sensors (except 5.0L engines), the falling edge of the CMP waveform should cross the zero reference line between the 7th and 10th peak past the missing tooth waveform.

On 5.0L engines with a VRS CMP sensor, the falling edge waveform should cross the zero reference line between the 6th and the 9th peak past the CKP missing tooth ( Figure 8 ).

On 5.0L engines with a Hall-effect VRS CMP sensor, the rising edge of the wave form should occur between the 6th and 9th peak past the CKP missing tooth wave form.

(CMP) SYNCHRONIZER INSTALLATION PROCEDURE

Set the # 1 cylinder on Top Dead Center (TDC) of the compression stroke.

NOTE: THE # 1 CYLINDER MUST BE SET ON TOP DEAD CENTER (TDC) OF THE COMPRESSION STROKE OR THE SYNCHRONIZER ASSEMBLY WILL NOT BE INSTALLED CORRECTLY.

Disconnect the battery ground cable.

Remove the CMP sensor from the synchronizer assembly.

Remove the synchronizer clamp (hold down bolt) and remove the synchronizer assembly.

NOTE: IN SOME CASES THE OIL PUMP INTERMEDIATE SHAFT MAY NOT COME OUT WITH THE SYNCHRONIZER ASSEMBLY. IF SO, RETRIEVE THE INTERMEDIATE SHAFT BEFORE PROCEEDING.

After performing the required service and before beginning the installation of the synchronizer assembly, ALWAYS COAT THE SYNCHRONIZER DRIVE GEAR WITH CLEAN ENGINE OIL PRIOR TO INSTALLATION.

Install the correct engine and model year synchronizer alignment installation tool. Install the tool to the synchronizer assembly by rotating the tool until it engages the notches in the camshaft synchronizer housing and the armature.

CAUTION: SOME OF THE TOOLS WILL FIT ACROSS ENGINE LINES AND COULD BE PERCEIVED AS BEING THE CORRECT TOOL. ALTHOUGH THE TOOLS MAY APPEAR SIMILAR, THERE ARE SUBTLE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THEM, ALWAYS CHECK THE TOOL APPLICATION CHART PROVIDED IN THIS TSB ( FIGURE 9 ).

During the installation of the synchronizer assembly (with the tool attached) into the engine, the arrow on the tool will rotate until the intermediate shaft and the camshaft gear fully engage.

NOTE: THE ARROW WILL ROTATE CLOCKWISE OR COUNTER CLOCKWISE DEPENDING ON THE ENGINE TYPE AND ENGINE ROTATION.

Install the camshaft synchronizer assembly so the arrow on the installation tool ( Figure 3 ) is in the correct position as specified in the appropriate model year vehicle and engine. (Refer to Workshop Manual Section 303-14, Synchronizer-Camshaft).

Install the synchronizer clamp (bolt) before removing the installation tool. Tighten to 18 Lb-ft (25 N-m).

Remove the installation tool.

Install the CMP sensor. Tighten to 27 Lb-in (3 N-m).

Install battery ground cable.

CAUTION: DO NOT LOOSEN THE SYNCHRONIZER BOLT AND ROTATE THE SYNCHRONIZER ASSEMBLY. THE SYNCHRONIZER ASSEMBLY IS NOT ADJUSTABLE; DO NOT LOOSEN THE SYNCHRONIZER BOLT AFTER THE ALIGNMENT TOOL HAS BEEN REMOVED IN ORDER TO ALIGN THE CMP ELECTRICAL CONNECTOR FOR ANY REASON. IF THE ELECTRICAL CONNECTOR IS NOT IN THE CORRECT POSITION, THE SYNCHRONIZER ASSEMBLY HAS TO BE REMOVED, THE ALIGNMENT TOOL REINSTALLED AND THE ASSEMBLY REINSTALLED ASSUMING THE ENGINE HAS NOT BEEN ROTATED FROM TDC OF THE COMPRESSION STROKE ON # 1 CYLINDER.

OTHER APPLICABLE ARTICLES:

AMEDEE
AMEDEE, FORD TECHNICIAN
Category: Ford
Satisfied Customers: 26,920
Experience: ASE CERTIFIED TECHNICIAN ADVANCED LEVEL SPECIALIST. Wisconsin certified emissions state inspector
Verified
AMEDEE and 87 other Ford Specialists are ready to help you
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AMEDEE
AMEDEE, FORD TECHNICIAN
Category: Ford
Satisfied Customers: 26,920
26,920 Satisfied Customers
Experience: ASE CERTIFIED TECHNICIAN ADVANCED LEVEL SPECIALIST. Wisconsin certified emissions state inspector

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