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Kenny Z.
Kenny Z., Ford Senior Master Tech
Category: Ford
Satisfied Customers: 5535
Experience:  Auto Trans, Drivability and Electrical Specialist
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VCM not opening Pats security Access. 2010 ford mustang v6

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VCM not opening Pats security Access.
JA: What is the model/year of your Ford?
Customer: 2010 ford mustang v6 coupe
JA: Are you fixing your Mustang yourself? What have you tried so far?
Customer: Just using the VCM, resetting the PCM module because we swapped clusters. Fixing it myself but had it at the dealer for about a week and they could not help
JA: Anything else you want the mechanic to know before I connect you?
Customer: No

Hello, my name is***** and thanks for your question.

What actually happens when you try security access? Does the timer even start? What is displayed on the IDS? What reason did the dealer give you for not being able to help?

Customer: replied 3 months ago.
Hi Kenny,So it states the process will take 10 mins, but will not even start. It goes from turn ignition on straight to turn ignition off then right back to the vehicle ID screen. I can communicate with the pcm just fine and do all other OBD's. The tech at ford I believe was just unknoledage as it was costing me money having him waiting for ford hotline to call him back.

Thanks for the reply. So you have a VCMII and IDS available now? The dealerships IDS was performing the same as yours?

Customer: replied 3 months ago.
That's correct.

Network test pass the PCM and IPC?

On demand self test for PCM and IPC pass codes?

Have you performed PMI on cluster yet?

Customer: replied 3 months ago.
There are a few. I'm not on the device right now but I'll run it as soon as I get back and let you know which ones are the are showing up:

Ok sounds good.

Customer: replied 3 months ago.
Might be tomorrow if that's okay. The cp died

Sure no problem.

Customer: replied 3 months ago.
Hey Kenny,Got the DTCs. Pats target identifier with a signal invalid (B10DA:86-8A) on self test with the IPC. IPC being used is my original that came with the car. The IPC and PCM both respond on network test.
Customer: replied 3 months ago.
On the self demand KOEO I get a P1260 DTC

I understand that you have the original cluster back in the network, was the new cluster ever pmi'd or did the new cluster ever get to parameter reset? Does the security access behave the same for both IPC's? Also these are the original keys?

Customer: replied 3 months ago.
New cluster never got a parameter reset. i was just messing around with the VCM and went to the data logger for the IPC. States PCM ID is stored and still 2 master keys in the system too.
Customer: replied 3 months ago.
Had a locksmith before the dealer tried. He couldn't get the keys to program with the new cluster and then couldn't pair up the old cluster back with the car either.

Usually that B10DA:86-8A is from no communication between PCM and IPC or they lost their pairing. I would try to PMI the PCM and the original cluster. If it does not show an actual down load occurring (finishes too fast) during pmi then try as built on both modules. (assuming you have a valid IDS subscription) If it still times out then I would suspect a network issue between the PCM and IPC even though network passes for both modules between the modules and DLC/IDS.

Maybe even PMI or as built on the BCM also. Have seen stranger things....

Customer: replied 3 months ago.
Will try. What's PMI exactly?
Customer: replied 3 months ago.
Never mind that last question.

OK

Customer: replied 3 months ago.
I tried the first few options but no success. The BCM will not program and I think I probably found an issue. I suspected my battery was too low and the BCM programming will not start because it states voltage to low. I'll be going by to get a new one Monday but could that be a reason for the PATS loggin not working?
Customer: replied 3 months ago.
I guess I should note to that the original keys still lock, unlock, alarm and trunk open still.

It could be a battery, would not be the first time. All of the push button functions of the keys have nothing to do with the pats portion of the keys, totally separate system. Let me know how it goes after you get the battery installed, and enjoy the rest of your weekend!

Kenny

Customer: replied 3 months ago.
Will do and thanks for all your help!

Your welcome!

Customer: replied 3 months ago.
Hey Kenny,So I got a my battery fully charged which worked enough to get the BCM to go through but still no success in having the PATS acknoledge me and let me start the 10 min process to log in.The code that comes up after I run the CMDTCs is a P1260. What do you suggest? Where exactly is the PATs module located?Thanks!

Good morning!

All PATS functions are located in the IPC (cluster), there is no stand alone pats module. So the IPC passes all self tests at this time, and network test passes all modules, correct? The only code present when you run continuous self test on all modules is the P1260 in the PCM? What was the original concern with the vehicle that led you to replace the cluster?

I have also seen on some vehicles with the newer versions of IDS that the security access has changed. When the check mark is clicked, IDS opens internet explorer and directs you to the PTS (professional technician society) homepage on the dealer website. You then log in to the PTS site with your user name and password. Once the site receives a valid log in, IDS reopens and security access is granted immediately. I didn't mention this before because I assumed the dealer would have known this and got through. Ford has not told us what model years this applies to specifically so it is hit or miss. Either the timer opens,or IDS redirects to the PTS page. I know there are certain IE settings have to be enabled i.e. pop up blockers off, website url allowed in security etc....it might be worth calling the dealer back and see if this redirect happened to them or not.

Customer: replied 3 months ago.
I still get the B10DA code (signal failure) running self test on the IPC alone. That's the only code I get for the IPC. P1260 for the PCM KOEO Self test.

I will have to get back to you this evening swamped at work. Sorry for the delay.

Customer: replied 3 months ago.
No worries. This cp died again so I'll have to charge it again anyways.

OK thanks

Have you given any thought about the security access shortcut I was talking about? Did the ids screen make any strange flashing like it was trying to open a different window? Here is the pinpoint for the B10DA:

Pinpoint Test G: DTC B10DA:86 and/or DTC U0100:00

Refer to Wiring Diagrams Cell 14, Module Communications Network for schematic and connector information.

Normal Operation

During each vehicle start sequence, when the key is turned to the START or ON position, the Passive Anti-Theft System (PATS) transceiver reads the PATS key identification code and sends the data to the Instrument Panel Cluster (IPC) . If there is no communication on the High Speed Controller Area Network (HS-CAN) between the IPC and the PCM, DTCs U0100:00 and/or B10DA:86 can set in the IPC and the vehicle can experience a PATS no-start.

If DTC B10DA:61 is present, refer to DTC Charts in this section.

  • DTC B10DA:86 (PATS PCM Identifier: Signal Invalid) — a continuous DTC that sets only when the IPC does not receive the expected response from the PCM over the HS-CAN . The fault may not be present at the time of testing. The data sent by the PCM does not match the data expected by the IPC and this DTC is set. This DTC can be caused by the HS-CAN circuits between the IPC and the PCM or by either module. This DTC can also be set if the battery voltage is low.
  • DTC U0100:00 (Lost Communication With ECM /PCM "A": No Sub Type Information) — a continuous DTC that sets only when the IPC loses communication with the PCM and the fault may not be present at the time of testing. This DTC can be caused by a HS-CAN circuit concern, the IPC or the PCM.

This pinpoint test is intended to diagnose the following:

  • Wiring, terminals or connectors
  • Low battery state of charge
  • IPC
  • PCM

PINPOINT TEST G : DTC B10DA:86 AND/OR DTC U0100:00

G1 CHECK THE BATTERY STATE OF CHARGE

  • Ignition OFF.
  • Check the battery state of charge with the battery condition test. Refer to Section 414-01.


Does the battery pass the battery condition test?

YesGO to G2.

NoINSTALL a new battery. REFER to Section 414-01.

G2 CHECK FOR MODULE COMMUNICATION ON THE HS-CAN

  • Connect the scan tool.
  • Ignition ON.
  • Carry out the network test using the scan tool.


Is the scan tool able to communicate with any of the modules on the HS-CAN ?

YesREFER to Section 418-00 to diagnose the module that is not communicating with the scan tool.

NoGO to G3.

G3 INSPECT THE HS-CAN CIRCUITRY

  • Ignition OFF.
  • Inspect all of the HS-CAN circuitry, including the pin crimps, connector fit, corroded/bent/pushed-out/damaged pins and splice integrity in the 4 splices and 36 connections (8 connectors) between the PCM and the IPC .


Does the HS-CAN circuitry pass the component inspection?

YesGO to G4.

NoREPAIR the HS-CAN circuitry as necessary. CLEAR the DTCs. CYCLE the ignition. REPEAT the self-test. TEST the system for normal operation.

G4 CHECK FOR CORRECT PCM OPERATION

  • Disconnect all the PCM connectors.
  • Check for:
    • corrosion
    • damaged pins
    • pushed-out pins
  • Connect all the PCM connectors and make sure they seat correctly.
  • Operate the system and verify the concern is still present.


Is the concern still present?

YesINSTALL a new PCM. REFER to Section 303-14. RESET the parameters in both the IPC and the PCM. REFER to Passive Anti-Theft System (PATS) Parameter Reset in this section. CYCLE the ignition. REPEAT the self-test. TEST the system for normal operation. If the concern is still present, GO to G5.

NoThe system is operating correctly at this time. The concern may have been caused by a loose or corroded connector. CLEAR the DTCs. CYCLE the ignition. REPEAT the self-test. TEST the system for normal operation.

G5 CHECK FOR CORRECT IPC OPERATION

  • Disconnect all the IPC connectors.
  • Check for:
    • corrosion
    • damaged pins
    • pushed-out pins
  • Connect all the IPC connectors and make sure they seat correctly.
  • Operate the system and verify the concern is still present.


Is the concern still present?

YesINSTALL a new IPC . REFER to Section 413-01. RESET the parameters in both the IPC and the PCM. REFER to Passive Anti-Theft System (PATS) Parameter Reset in this section. PROGRAM the PATS keys into the new IPC . REFER to Integrated Keyhead Transmitter (IKT) Key Programming Using Diagnostic Equipment in this section. CYCLE the ignition. REPEAT the self-test. TEST the system for normal operation.

NoThe system is operating correctly at this time. The concern may have been caused by a loose or corroded connector. CLEAR the DTCs. CYCLE the ignition. REPEAT the self-test. TEST the system for normal operation.

Customer: replied 3 months ago.
Thanks. I'll give this a go. I called the dealer to see if they had the issue but they didn't call me back. I'll follow up with them tomorrow. I may have to install internet explore on the PC they wholesale sold me with the VCM unit or perhaps install IDS on my HP. It does click (somewhat a micro flash before going right back to the IDS vehicle ID screen).

I would do that before tearing into it for the pinpoint test. Even with explorer and all set up correctly you still need a valid subscription to the PTS website.

Customer: replied 3 months ago.
Will do. Is that subscription only something a dealer would have access to?

Yes pretty much. I think independents can get it through motorcraft.com but pretty pricey. Do you have a valid subscription for your IDS/VCM? What revision IDS are you using?

Customer: replied 3 months ago.
The package came with IDS subscription. The IDS version I believe is 106.02... That sound right?

Yep thats the latest one.

Customer: replied 3 months ago.
I'll keep you posted once the tech calls me back about if he was able to get access or not.

If Ford forces you to use the security access bypass/shortcut then you think they would have to give you access to that with some kind of access to the site, since you have a paid subscription. Maybe if you can get the pop up to work thats all you will need to do. Not sure what you would use for a log in though.

Customer: replied 3 months ago.
Hmm. I'll try to configure the cp with explorer in the meantime and see if I can get a redirect or the bypass. I'll try it tonight.

OK best of luck!

Customer: replied 3 months ago.
Thanks!

Your welcome!

Customer: replied 2 months ago.
Hey Kenny,Heard from Ford and he stated he wasn't able to get into Pats either. I'm going to look more into the PTS option as I did install IDS on another computer and it does now ask me for a dealer code (not sure what that is exactly) when trying to do some self test. I also order another transceiver since it says there are two keys stored so maybe I can access it with a few new parts. Will keep you posted.

I was kind of hoping he would have been a little more detailed in his response, we already knew he couldn't get into pats. Really just wanted to know exactly how his IDS behaved when the access timer was selected. That is really all I have left for this concern. The dealer code is a unique code that each dealer has that is used for tracking and dealership identification to Ford. This is the site that independent repair facilities use for IDS. You might want to look it over.

https://www.motorcraftservice.com/Product/ReprogrammingInit

Kenny Z. and 6 other Ford Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 2 months ago.
Thanks. I'll call them back and get more details if possible. Seems like I'm going to have to get new components to get this to work again. Thanks for all your help on this!

Your very welcome and best of luck!

Customer: replied 2 months ago.
Hey Kenny,Hope all is well. I ended up taking a break from he car (just a headache). Wanted to get your opinion though.If I just get a new PCM, IPC and wiring (which I believe is would as one unit) would that likely solve me problem since the IPC stores the PCM but will not verify?Thanks!

I'm not sure but if this problem was not there before attempting to replace the cluster I can't see what would of happened to the PCM or wiring. Wiring maybe only if in the vicinity of the cluster. Cluster and PCM do not share the same wiring harness. Did the tech at the dealer seem like he knew what he was doing or were you just dealing with a service advisor? Most dealers have 1 or 2 techs that know pats and security inside out. I can't even fathom a dealer giving a vehicle back to a customer and telling them they can't find the problem. Never happen here in a million years! Any other dealers in your area that might have a tech with more experience? I would need to have this car in my bay to fix it.

Customer: replied 2 months ago.
I was never able to speak with the tech very much but the service advisor seems to suggest that he didn't know how to get into Pats and was waiting daily on for service hotline to walk him through it.Was thinking of having another deal look at this but I'm moving in a few weeks out of state so I might have to wait, ship the car down there and then have someone look at it.Yes, never had any issues until the locksmith came out to try a program the replacement cluster and from there it wouldn't allow any access. He wasn't using IDS I believe but couldn't get the PCM and cluster to verify.

PCM/cluster will never verify without security access and parameter reset. I think you should try a different dealer at your knew location. You have to find a knowledgeable pats/network tech! Hotline is pretty useless (they like to quote shop manuals) I've had a lot of experience with them (since 83).

Customer: replied 2 months ago.
Thanks. That's helpful. Hopefully someone can open this thing as I really would rather not sell or sell for parts.

Best of luck!

Kenny