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Ask A. Penland Your Own Question
A. Penland
A. Penland, Ford Senior Master Technician, ASE
Category: Ford
Satisfied Customers: 6628
Experience:  ASE Master Certified, ASE Advanced Gasoline Engine Performance
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I want to ask Penland a question. How much does it cost? I

Customer Question

I want to ask Penland a question. How much does it cost?
JA: I'm not sure of the exact price, but there's only a $5 deposit. The rest of the price information will be on the page I send you to.
Customer: I would need an exact cost
JA: Okay, I'll connect you to the mechanic to go over that information regarding your Ford. Before I do, is there anything else you want him to know?
Customer: no
Submitted: 10 months ago.
Category: Ford
Expert:  Ron replied 10 months ago.

Hello. My name is ***** ***** I am happy to assist you today. Give me just a moment to review your post, and I'll be right back with the help you need.

Expert:  Ron replied 10 months ago.

Tony is not on at the moment , is there something I can help you with?

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
I have a 2005 explorer with a no crank no start condition. I am getting no power to the s terminal at the starter when switched. I have constant battery at starter. with the key on, if i jump s and b it will crank but not start. I have checked all fuses and relays that I am aware of
Expert:  Ron replied 10 months ago.

So your saying you have power on the red battery wire at the starter but none at the yellow/blue start wire at the starter?

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
correct
Expert:  Ron replied 10 months ago.

Okay start first with making sure the F1-12 fuse located in the under hood panel is in place and not blow and if it checks okay check and see if you have power at the starter relay on pins 30 and 85 with the key in the crank position. See the start circuit wiring in the link below for testing reference. Check this and let me know.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/104923897/Starter%20Nov%2015.pdf

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
f1.12 is good, has power and pins 30 and 85 have power
Expert:  Ron replied 10 months ago.

Okay dose the engine crank over if you supply the relay with a ground at pin 86 with the key in the crank position?

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
I am assuming you mean with the relay in place? No it does not
Expert:  Ron replied 10 months ago.

Yes , the Relay gets its ground from the PCM (computer) one the PCM has read the key and if the PCM is reading the key and you have power on both the power pins and a good ground at the relay and it will still not crank then that would point to a bad relay. Try swapping it with a know good relay.

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
I have swapped it, no change
Expert:  Ron replied 10 months ago.

Are you feeling it click when you go to the crank position?

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Alright didn't hear any clicking. So, I hooked up a self powered test light to check for ground at terminal 86. There was no ground present. I then added a ground again to 86 with the relay in place, must not have been good when originally performed (my error). with the added ground, it will crank, but not start.
Expert:  Ron replied 10 months ago.

Okay Then that means that either the theft system is not reading the key so the PCM can ground the relay or the PCM has failed . I would suspect you have a problem with the key. Have you by chance tried the spare key ? If not then do so. I would also scan the system and see if there are any theft codes setting.

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
If it were the key, and the pcm is not sending a ground, wouldn't it start when the ground was added?
Expert:  Ron replied 10 months ago.

If the PCM can not read the key it will not crank and or start as it kills injector pulse as well.

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
I only have one key. Is there a way to flash the theft codes, I don't have a scanner that will give me those?
Expert:  Ron replied 10 months ago.

The only way to do that is with a dealer scan tool or in some cases a lock smith can come out and do it as well.

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Ok, so that's it then? Either a bad pcm or the pcm can't read the key and the only way to verify that is with a dealer scan tool?
Expert:  Ron replied 10 months ago.

Unfortunately yes, the common cause is in most cases a problem with the key but it can also be a failing PCM. Scanning the system would be the next step to determine the cause.

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Ok, I'll see if I can get a scan tool and pull the codes. Can i just respond at anytime to this thread?
Expert:  Ron replied 10 months ago.

Yes the post stays open even after you rate my service for as long as need be. All you need to do is post back and we can work from there. Please take a moment to rate my service so I can get credit for my time, the question remains open for follow up even after doing so, all you need to do is return to this question if need be.

Thank you again.

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Alright I got a scan tool. I am not able to communicate with the PATS system, the intrument cluster has a few codes set b1352 b1318, b1360, u1950
Expert:  Ron replied 10 months ago.

The code B1352 indicates a Ignition Key-In Circuit Failure.

The code B1318 is a charging system code indicating low voltage.

The Code B1369 indicates Ignition RUN/ACC Circuit Open
Code U1950 from the Drivers Seat Module (DSM) suggests that it is detecting communication issues with at least one other member of the Uart Based Protocol (UBP) network circuit which includes the HEC.

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Ok, so in regards ***** ***** problem. Where are we at?
Expert:  Ron replied 10 months ago.

You likely have a problem with the key as well as the cluster and the PCM . Unfortunately this is going to require some hands on testing. What codes return if you clear all of them?

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
1352 comes back
Expert:  Ron replied 10 months ago.

This code indacates a Ignition Key-In Circuit Failure. Dose the instrument cluster seem to be working with the key on?

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
it does, it lights up, gauges seem to enegize
Expert:  Ron replied 10 months ago.

Okay then I would suspect you have either a bad Key and or the PCM has failed but this is going to need some hands on testing.

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
your answer hasn't changed? What hands on testing, this is getting pretty vague
Expert:  Ron replied 10 months ago.

With all of these code This is not something I can fix from here. If you would like I can open the post back up for you and perhaps someone else may have something different to add.

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
Well after I cleared the codes. One came back. So, we are looking at one hard code present. yes open it back, this isn't very helpful.
Expert:  Ron replied 10 months ago.

Doing so now.

Expert:  A. Penland replied 10 months ago.

Hello, This is Tony. My good friend Ron was working with you and OPT OUT to open your question to me. I read over your comments back and for with Ron and he did cover all the important items.

I just want to check one thing.

Does the yellow check engine light come on when the key is turned on?

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
it does
Expert:  A. Penland replied 10 months ago.

Thank you. And you have no actual trouble codes from the PCM (Engine Computer)?

Customer: replied 10 months ago.
I am not able to communicate with the pcm...
Expert:  A. Penland replied 10 months ago.

Ok, there is a RED theft light on the dash that flashes every 3 to 5 seconds when the key is turned off and the doors are closed. See if this light flashes rapidly when you turn the key to on.