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I have A 2006 FORD Freestar with the 3.9 engine. It surges

Customer Question
at 3000 rpms and will...
I have A 2006 FORD Freestar with the 3.9 engine. It surges at 3000 rpms and will not go above 3000 rpms with no load in nutral.
JA: How many miles are on the car? Is it an automatic or a manual transmission?
Customer: automatic and a little over 200000 miles
JA: What is the make/model of your car?
Customer: Ford Freestar with the 3.9
JA: What year is your '06 Freestar?
Customer: yes
JA: Are you fixing your vehicle yourself? What have you tried so far?
Customer: New crank sensor only code is p0420
JA: Anything else you want the mechanic to know before I connect you?
Customer: no
Submitted: 1 year ago.Category: Ford
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Answered in 5 minutes by:
11/8/2016
Ford Mechanic: AMEDEE, FORD TECHNICIAN replied 1 year ago
AMEDEE
AMEDEE, FORD TECHNICIAN
Category: Ford
Satisfied Customers: 27,089
Experience: ASE CERTIFIED TECHNICIAN ADVANCED LEVEL SPECIALIST. Wisconsin certified emissions state inspector
Verified

Hello and welcome!

My name isCustomerand I can assist you with your question.

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Ford Mechanic: AMEDEE, FORD TECHNICIAN replied 1 year ago

How long has the check engine light been on?

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
about a year
Ford Mechanic: AMEDEE, FORD TECHNICIAN replied 1 year ago

Do you know what the engine vacuum is at?

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
not at the moment, but I can check
Ford Mechanic: AMEDEE, FORD TECHNICIAN replied 1 year ago

Can you check it tonight?

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
I can, I checked the injectors with a noid light and they do not fire when it goes into the surge and do when it comes out of it.
Ford Mechanic: AMEDEE, FORD TECHNICIAN replied 1 year ago

Do you know why?

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
no that is why I changed the crank sensor thinking maybe that is the problem
Ford Mechanic: AMEDEE, FORD TECHNICIAN replied 1 year ago

I suspect your exhaust is plugged.

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
ok that sounds logical
Customer reply replied 1 year ago
would that cause the injectors to stop firing?
Ford Mechanic: AMEDEE, FORD TECHNICIAN replied 1 year ago

Not only you have the converter code.. which I suspect your convrerter is plugged, but it also this will prevent air flow through the engine and cause this condition your experiencing.

YES, this will affect fuel delivery.. because it is reading engine vacuum.. which is low or being affected due to plugged exhaust.

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
Ok I will check the vacuum
Ford Mechanic: AMEDEE, FORD TECHNICIAN replied 1 year ago

I am glad I can help!

It has been a pleasure working with you. Please dont forget to honor your good faith deposit by rating my answer as "5 STAR SERVICE" for assisting you today.

Keep in mind, we can still continue this conversation at no further cost to you even after you rate my answer. Just reply back to me using this page and I will get it and get back to you ASAP!

Also, if you are a member or if you have a subscription to the site, you still need to rate my answer in order for me to get credit for assisting you with your question.

Please let me know if you have any further questions.

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
Ok I will
Ford Mechanic: AMEDEE, FORD TECHNICIAN replied 1 year ago

Sounds good thank you very much!!

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
Ok still haven't found the problem. The vacuum drops to from 20 to 5, the more I slowly open the throttle the more it drops. I took the first oxygen sensor out before both catalytic converters and no change still surges at 3000 rpm's also disconnected the muffler. Could the ECM be messing with the timing bad, Cam sensor?
Ford Mechanic: AMEDEE, FORD TECHNICIAN replied 1 year ago

Hello!

What is the exhaust back pressure at?

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
The most I can get is 1.5 P.S.I. at 3000 where it starts to surge.
Ford Mechanic: AMEDEE, FORD TECHNICIAN replied 1 year ago

Hello and sorry for the delay!

If the exhaust checks out good, based on my experience this is a severe lean condition due to low fuel pressure or a bad mass air flow sensor.

I am glad I can help!

It has been a pleasure working with you. Please dont forget to honor your good faith deposit by rating my answer as "5 STAR SERVICE" for assisting you today.

Keep in mind, we can still continue this conversation at no further cost to you even after you rate my answer. Just reply back to me using this page and I will get it and get back to you ASAP!

Also, if you are a member or if you have a subscription to the site, you still need to rate my answer in order for me to get credit for assisting you with your question.

Please let me know if you have any further questions.

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Ford Mechanic: AMEDEE, FORD TECHNICIAN replied 1 year ago

Hello! It'sCustomerfrom just answer.

I am just checking in to see if you need any further assistance?

Let me know!

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
Fuel pressure is 54 psi and the Freestar runs the same with the MAF unplugged
Ford Mechanic: AMEDEE, FORD TECHNICIAN replied 1 year ago

What is the oxygen sensor readings at under a load when this problem occurs?

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
I will have to get back to you on that in the morning. My scan tool has been acting up so I moved onto other things till the weekend.
Ford Mechanic: AMEDEE, FORD TECHNICIAN replied 1 year ago

OK

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
Average voltage under load for Bank 1 sensor 1 = 0.4, Bank 1 sensor 2 = 0.4
Average voltage under load for Bank 2 sensor 1 = 0.4, Bank 2 sensor 2 = 0.6Short term fuel trim Bank 1 sensor 1 = 0.7, Bank 1 sensor 2 = -1
Short term fuel trim Bank 2 sensor 1 = 0.9, Bank 2 sensor 2 = -1
Ford Mechanic: AMEDEE, FORD TECHNICIAN replied 1 year ago

Here is a good test that will help pinpoint the root cause.

Under safe road conditions, a wide open throttle acceleration is performed. Try to maintain WOT for at least 5 seconds. 10 to 20 seconds would be better. (this of course is when the problem occurs)

What will the pre cat oxygen sensors do?

Will indicate rich

Should the barometric pid change?

Should remain stable! Very important!

What will air flow do?

Max out. Volumetric efficiency. Engine load 100%
(Engine load Parameter on scan tool should go close to 100%)

Results

Poor acceleration, rich exhaust, and good Barometric pressure = restricted exhaust or late ignition timing.

Poor acceleration, rich exhaust, low or decreasing Barometric pressure = intake path restricted

Poor acceleration lean exhaust and good barometric pressure = fuel delivery concern.

Poor acceleration, lean exhaust and low barometric pressure = air flow measurement error. (Ford has this problem with Mass air flow sensors)

Note: Some vehicles Barometric pressure is not updated until Wide open throttle.

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
Ok Oxygen sensors go low all the way to 0.0 on both banks
Barometric pressure is constant 14.94
Mass Air Flow is 16.2
Calculated load is 99%The all injectors are not pulsing (no electrical current) it seems like for 6 revolutions then they pulse for maybe 12 revolutions. This is just what it sounds like. I have observed the no electrical current with a noid light in the injector circuit. I think this is getting out of my league and I will take it to a ford garage for diagnostic unless you have more information.
Ford Mechanic: AMEDEE, FORD TECHNICIAN replied 1 year ago

If the oxygen sensor readings are extremely lean under a load, this is the problem. The engine is STARVING for fuel. Fuel pressure needs to be checked and verified, the mass air flow sensor signal needs to be checked and verified and the air intake snorkle from the mass air flow sensor to the throttle body needs to be checked and verified free of cracks and or rips.

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AMEDEE
AMEDEE, FORD TECHNICIAN
Category: Ford
Satisfied Customers: 27,089
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Experience: ASE CERTIFIED TECHNICIAN ADVANCED LEVEL SPECIALIST. Wisconsin certified emissions state inspector

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