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2008 Lincoln Towncar Signature L. I have trouble starting…

Customer Question
2008 Lincoln Towncar Signature...

2008 Lincoln Towncar Signature L.

Mechanic's Assistant: What is the model of your '08 Lincoln?

I have trouble starting it. Ity will start after many cranking attempts. At first I could open the breather exposing the air to the intake and it would start right up. Now that no longer works to start it right away.

Mechanic's Assistant: Will the headlights turn on? Is the battery fully charged?

Someone suggested a Fuel Pressure Regulator but don't know if that is the sensor or what else it could be named. It may not be that at all. Thats why I ask. The battery is fine. the car cranks well but just takes many attempts to start it.

Mechanic's Assistant: Are you fixing your vehicle yourself? What have you tried so far?

Yes I will fix it myself. See above comments.

Mechanic's Assistant: Anything else you want the mechanic to know before I connect you?

I changed out the Throttle Body one year ago.

Submitted: 8 months ago.Category: Lincoln
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Answered in 20 minutes by:
12/16/2017
Lincoln Mechanic: 6Bucs, Ford Technician replied 8 months ago
6Bucs
6Bucs, Ford Technician
Category: Lincoln
Satisfied Customers: 1,082
Experience: Ford, Lincoln, Mercury Senior Master Tech with 18 years dealership experience.
Verified
Hello and thank you for your question. My name is***** you healed the power train control module for trouble codes or checked fuel pressure yet?
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Customer reply replied 8 months ago
No. I changed out the computer and the display is still off and on. The funny thing is that it affects my air conditioning. If the display is on the A/C works but when the display panel goes off so does the A/C.
The blinkers and high beam indicator are about the only things that work on the panel when the display is out.
I was told the lighting control module could be the problem with that. I noticed it contains 3 relays and since it is intermittent it acts like a relay. I would like to figure that one out too but right now the priority is the starting problems.
No, I have not checked for fuel pressure as when it finally starts it runs very smoothly in idol and driving.
Lincoln Mechanic: 6Bucs, Ford Technician replied 8 months ago
Alright. The ac and lighting will be a separate issue. For the starting concerns. , it’s recommended to borrow or rent a code reader to check the pcm for codes. Many times places like advance auto or autozone will scan the car for free. If there are no codes, the next step is to have a fuel pressure gauge on the fuel rail and monitor it when the engine has trouble starting. Usually what we see is internal resistence in the fuel pump electrical portion. Once the voltage actually jumps across the resistence the pump will continue to run normally.
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Customer reply replied 8 months ago
I have a trouble code reader and there are no codes. I'll check the Fuel Pressure and resistance in Monday.
Customer reply replied 8 months ago
How do I check the pressure? With the noid light or pressure gauge? I also have an ohm/volt meter.
I was going to check a few things but the car started right up. It could be because it's warm and sunny today but I don't know.
Lincoln Mechanic: 6Bucs, Ford Technician replied 8 months ago
Check the fuel pressure with a manual gauge hooked up at the fuel rail you’ll want to see about 45 psi
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Customer reply replied 7 months ago
Looking for the fuel rail your talking about. Sending some photos so hopefully you can identify it for me. Can't seem to send you the photos I had already taken. Will try another way.
Customer reply replied 7 months ago
Guess I'll have to have your email address to send them. Maybe you have a photo for me to see instead?
Customer reply replied 7 months ago
OK. Loads of fuel pressure so that's defiantly NOT it. I'm thinking more of an air issue since at first it would start right up with the air filter exposed.
Customer reply replied 7 months ago
what's next?
Customer reply replied 7 months ago
Are you still with me? Waiting for a response.
Lincoln Mechanic: 6Bucs, Ford Technician replied 7 months ago
Will your scan tool read live sensor data?
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Customer reply replied 7 months ago
Not sure what I'm looking at when it's doing it though. Will have to be running at the time but I'm sure I can get it started.
Customer reply replied 7 months ago
What live data am I looking for and what is the reading supposed to be???
Customer reply replied 7 months ago
This is taking entirely too long for a response. The weather WAS nice and I did have time to work my car this morning but have not heard back from you yet. I am not going to spend more money on a phone call so please, help me out.
Customer reply replied 7 months ago
Nice to know.
Lincoln Mechanic: sprinkles08, ASE Certified Technician replied 7 months ago
sprinkles08
sprinkles08, ASE Certified Technician
Category: Lincoln
Satisfied Customers: 24,212
Experience: ASE Master and Advanced level certified. Factory trained with 17 years dealership experience
Verified

Hello and welcome to JustAnswer! I apologize for the extended wait time you experienced, I've only just come online now and would like to assist you with your question.

There are quite a few things that can cause the engine to not start and it will require some testing to determine exactly what is going on. It could definitely be a fuel pressure issue or you may be losing spark for whatever reason, however anything causing a loss of spark should be setting a fault code.

Can you explain exactly how fuel pressure was tested and what the results were?

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Customer reply replied 7 months ago
I checked with a fuel gauge. I didn't have the right connector to go to the fuel line so I did my best to adapt to it. Every time, just as soon as I turned the ignition on it blew the line off spurring a good stream of fuel everywhere. I know that is not the problem. If you look back previously I have explained the entire thing.
It will start but after a great deal of cranking. At first it would start immediately if o open the breather exposing the Air filter. Now that doesn't help either. In warm weather it also starts quickly so it seems the cold temperatures affect it.
No codes have come up at all.
The throttle body had to be changed out around a year ago. I have also changed out the computer unit because of a different unresolved problem which I do not think has any bearing on this problem.
The other situation is the intermittent display gauges going off and on. The AC works while the display is on and shuts down the compressor when the display goes off.
That is a separate problem you guys were helping me with previously. Last I heard on that it was either the computer, the lighting control module or the display panel itself. Since the problem is intermittent, I am thinking a relay which could be the light control module since it has relays in it.
Never the less, I'm more interested in fixing the starting problem right now. After the car starts it runs smooth and normal. No loss of power or any other adverse indications.
It has to be some type of sensor that controls air mixture or the choke.
Lincoln Mechanic: sprinkles08, ASE Certified Technician replied 7 months ago

If the line is blowing off then you're not checking pressure. You don't know actual pressure and you can't monitor for pressure bleedoff.

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Customer reply replied 7 months ago
Ok. I'll see about finding an adaptor for my fuel disconnect line to T to the pressure gauge.
Lincoln Mechanic: sprinkles08, ASE Certified Technician replied 7 months ago

Ok.

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Customer reply replied 7 months ago
I looked at Oriliees
I checked with Oreilys auto parts to find an adapter for the fuel line quick disconnect but they didn't have any adapters.
It would be simpler if there was a pressure valve there with a valve stem but pretty sure there is not one.
Is there a special adapter Ford / Lincoln has that will connect to the spring disconnect of the fuel rail?
Lincoln Mechanic: sprinkles08, ASE Certified Technician replied 7 months ago

There isn't anything special specifically for this vehicle but Ford does use a small diameter fuel line on most vehicles than other manufacturers.

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Customer reply replied 7 months ago
instead of disconnecting it at the spring connector it needs to be disconnected where to get the fuel pressure reading then?
Lincoln Mechanic: sprinkles08, ASE Certified Technician replied 7 months ago

The fuel line is disconnected at the rail and a test line installed that connects to the fuel rail and line, and the pressure gauge connects to the test line fitting.

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Lincoln Mechanic: sprinkles08, ASE Certified Technician replied 7 months ago

Disregard.

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Customer reply replied 7 months ago
The photo I have attached here shows the fuel line from one fuel rail to the other. It is on the bottom left on the rail. It is plastic cover by rubber. Besides the fuel entry line on top which has the spring disconnect, I can not see anywhere else on the fuel rail to access the line for the pressure test.
The plastic line won't come off and hopefully I did not crimp it too much trying to get it off.
Please advise.
Lincoln Mechanic: sprinkles08, ASE Certified Technician replied 7 months ago

No picture uploaded with your reply.

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Customer reply replied 7 months ago
Darn it. I pushed the page with the arrow to the right in the post block. It brought up the camera, after I took the photo I pressed OK. I did not see it on my question but I figured it sent it.
I have another photo on my phone but it won't send through here. Just tried again but guess it did not go through either. Wait.....there it is attached. Should be good this time.
Customer reply replied 7 months ago
No. That was the right one. You just have to move the photo down to see the rail. All the way to the left at the bottom of the rail the plastic line couples into the rail on the drivers side. That's the one I can't get to come off. Of course it is really cold out right now where the car is.
I took the spring coupler apart last time but could not find an adapter to fit the ends to i could hook up the pressure tester.
Lincoln Mechanic: sprinkles08, ASE Certified Technician replied 7 months ago

The line is removed from the fuel rail by removing the quick coupler. The coupler is part of the fuel line, if you break the line from it you're going to need to be replace the line.

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Customer reply replied 7 months ago
Ok. I had taken the fuel coupler apart with the separator tool. The problem I am having is finding the adapters to plug in to both ends of the spring loaded fuel coupler.
Customer reply replied 7 months ago
I need the adapters in order to plug the pressure gauge in between them.
Lincoln Mechanic: sprinkles08, ASE Certified Technician replied 7 months ago

If you have a scan tool you can have a look at data while the problem is happening to see if you can find anything, but if not then you're going to be back to needing to see what fuel pressure is doing. If you don't have the equipment available you may be better off allowing a shop to diagnose it for a .5 or 1 hour diagnostic charge and then do the repair yourself.

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Customer reply replied 7 months ago
I have a scan tool that does live data. I just need to know what I'm looking for and what the reading should be.
Lincoln Mechanic: sprinkles08, ASE Certified Technician replied 7 months ago

You'd need to look at sensor data and see if anything looks abnormal. Coolant temperature, MAP, cam/crank sync, injector pulsewidths, etc.

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Customer reply replied 7 months ago
What is normal????
Lincoln Mechanic: sprinkles08, ASE Certified Technician replied 7 months ago

You're going to need to be familiar with normal values. Coolant temperature should be correct to ambient if that's when the problem is happening, cam and crank signals need to be in sync, etc.

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Customer reply replied 7 months ago
Good grief. Guess I had better find a fuel adaptor to fit in between the fuel spring loaded coupler. I'm still betting on a sensor.
Lincoln Mechanic: sprinkles08, ASE Certified Technician replied 7 months ago

It could be a sensor.

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Customer reply replied 7 months ago
but which one? Which one controls the Air mixture and choke? After the car starts it runs perfectly. When the temperature is warm or hot outside, it starts immediately.
Lincoln Mechanic: sprinkles08, ASE Certified Technician replied 7 months ago

There isn't a choke, it's a fuel injected engine.

The problem may be a cam or crank sensor, MAP sensor, MAF sensor, coolant temp sensor.

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Customer reply replied 7 months ago
Great. Right back where I started. Looking for a rail line adapter to the spring loaded coupler.
Lincoln Mechanic: sprinkles08, ASE Certified Technician replied 7 months ago

Let me know how it goes.

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Customer reply replied 7 months ago
Will do. I have found the Adapter Spring Lock Coupling
that installs personally between the fuel rail coupler.
They run between $55.00 & $130.00. My car pressure has to be rated from 40- 70 but most of these are rated between 20- 40 psi. I have not found a coupler I could just put on temporarily while checking the pressure though.
I don't mind buying the Adapter as I might need to check pressure again though.
The pressure rating difference might be because of the needle valve.
Lincoln Mechanic: sprinkles08, ASE Certified Technician replied 7 months ago

You'll definitely want to make sure that whatever you get will hold the amount of pressure that will be applied to it.

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Customer reply replied 7 months ago
Ok. Thanks.
Lincoln Mechanic: sprinkles08, ASE Certified Technician replied 7 months ago

You're welcome.

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Customer reply replied 6 months ago
Update: Still on hold with this project unfortunately. The fuel line adapter I ordered for the fuel pressure test was not the right one so sending it back and will be researching another one.
Lincoln Mechanic: sprinkles08, ASE Certified Technician replied 6 months ago

Thank you for the update.

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Customer reply replied 6 months ago
OK. Finally got the fuel gauge test kit with the adapter I needed between the fuel inlet and the rail. However it must be rated for as high as this Lincoln needs as it leaks at the fittings. I put thread tape on them and tried again. It leaks when it hits about 70 and stops as it bleeds down.
Again...the car starts and runs perfectly when it's warm outside. The only problem it has is when it's cold. It will start but after a good amount of cranking it over.
NOT a fuel problem. Has to be a sensor that interferes when it's cold out. I know since it does not have a choke it can't be that but if it did I would suspect the choke since it only does it when it's cold out.
Ideas????
Lincoln Mechanic: sprinkles08, ASE Certified Technician replied 6 months ago

You can't check fuel pressure bleedoff if the fittings are leaking.

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Customer reply replied 6 months ago
It bleeds off. I understand what you are saying but after It gets down to around 40 it stops leaking and bleeds off slower.
I'm tired of spending time on the fuel pressure mess. I've spent enough money and time on it. So what's next or am I just spinning my wheels with you?
Lincoln Mechanic: sprinkles08, ASE Certified Technician replied 6 months ago

If fuel pressure is bleeding off then you have one or more injectors leaking or it's leaking back through the fuel pump.

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Customer reply replied 6 months ago
According to my Hanes manual it is supposed to bleed off slowly.
Again though, it runs fine after it's started and the problem ONLY occurs when starting it in the cold weather.
Lincoln Mechanic: sprinkles08, ASE Certified Technician replied 6 months ago

You can disregard most information in a Haynes manual. If pressure is bleeding off that quickly you have a problem. It should hold near full pressure for hours.

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Customer reply replied 6 months ago
Guess I'll just take it to a mechanic friend of mine. I'm sure he can read and understand the live data to resolve this problem.
Lincoln Mechanic: sprinkles08, ASE Certified Technician replied 6 months ago

That will be necessary to diagnose the problem if it persists after the fuel pressure bleedoff issue is resolved.

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