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Lincoln, 2004 navigator battery drains intemittantly. I have…

Customer Question
Lincoln, 2004 navigator battery...

Lincoln, 2004 navigator battery drains intemittantly

Mechanic's Assistant: Have you tested the battery with a voltmeter? And can you see if it's leaking or not?

I have tried the window washer, just bought a new battery and testing for 3 days. if you know anything else that parasitically drains the battery have at it yes 12.61 v starts at 800ms and settles at about 150-200ma it has been 24 hrs and now it is at 12.51

Mechanic's Assistant: Are you fixing your Navigator yourself? What have you tried so far?

Yes, i took it in and had the alternator checked

Mechanic's Assistant: Anything else you want the mechanic to know before I connect you?

Battery is potential suspect but not 100% sure

Submitted: 10 months ago.Category: Lincoln
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Answered in 25 minutes by:
9/27/2017
Lincoln Mechanic: Chris (aka- Moose), Technician replied 10 months ago
Chris (aka- Moose)
Chris (aka- Moose), Technician
Category: Lincoln
Satisfied Customers: 53,446
Experience: 16 years experience with Lincoln
Verified

Welcome, I'm Chris (aka Moose).

  • Although I work here everyday, please understand it is not all day and rarely morning time.
  • To get the most from me and the best experience, please give me the best details you can.
  • The website will offer you a phone call option for more $$. Some I do fulfill and some I do not.
  • Thanks, let's get started. If I upload dropbox links, without the app use the box in the top right for direct download.

We need to perform a draw test to figure out which circuit is causing the drain before we can continue. Can you follow the steps outlined in this link.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8j8l5do97ek2cir/draintest.pdf?dl=0

Now that I have posted a partial or complete answer, you will see you can rate me. The deposit you have already paid is not transferred to me until you rate me. I would like to receive nothing less than 5 star excellent ratings. So if we are not there yet, please reply and let me help more. If you're not pleased, let me know because rating bad does not result in a refund, there are better options. Rating now will not close this post nor prevent replying. Thanks Chris

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Customer reply replied 10 months ago
I am sorry but i sent you 4-5 messages once we connected to ask you, and I have not seen a response, except for a generic form you sent me, ignoring that I have pretty much already done. I have not heard from you since, and I keep getting asked for a rating. I also said this may take some time and I was willing to pay for your expertise and I got no response. I have been busy like you and have not been able to engage rapidly so I figured we would solve this over a few days. I await your reply. Eric
Lincoln Mechanic: Chris (aka- Moose), Technician replied 10 months ago

If you have replied to me more than once, I have not been getting them. Here is what I see.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/21onaxxrrlt2mo4/sent1.png?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/phi30r3n02lvpgh/sent12.png?dl=0

The steps I sent you are from the Ford workshop manual for the 04 Navigator. The exact same steps I and other Ford techs use at the dealership. Since you have already done those steps can you tell me which fuse when removed drops the draw down to an acceptable level of 28mA or less?

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Lincoln Mechanic: Chris (aka- Moose), Technician replied 10 months ago

Just found out you are replying to the dropbox links, I only get that response if I am online when you do so. Replies need to be sent here.

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Customer reply replied 10 months ago
i thought this box as a review the expert box, so i did not sorry I will send you all the comments as I save them. that makes sense
Lincoln Mechanic: Chris (aka- Moose), Technician replied 10 months ago

Thanks, ***** ***** watch here for your replies.

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Customer reply replied 10 months ago
this was generic and just pretty much telling me who you are, i see that you are a ford expert and that is what i want to leverage. I had two specific explainations, drain, and also park led i thought i explained. once we get through this, maybe we can talk on the phone. I just want to make sure that you can either research, ask your Ford buddies if they have seen this specific issue.I am sorry, I re-read your post and I am sorry, I am drawing about 200-350ma. sometings it will be at arond 100ma which could run all week without draining the battery and after talking to many others figured that waas a non-issue. I think it is a module or sometthing that is intermittentally leaking, which made me think about a leaky alternator, but then the led light showed up and I dismissed the alternator. What I think is somewhere in the 1-4 day period that it drains, we hit 2-5amps of drain when I am not looking.
I bought a fluke that could log the drain, but have not used it yet because it will just tell me what I already know, and not know that it is that is causing this. Only I think and old expert experience tech is the one that can sniff thi sout and maybe even had the experience. It might be light module that i read about or the Lightning display that intermittently fails. Does this make sense?
Lincoln Mechanic: Chris (aka- Moose), Technician replied 10 months ago

I am confident I can figure this out I just need you to do the test I sent to see which fuse stops the draw. Once i know that I can look through the wire diagrams to see all things on that circuit to figure out which component is to blame. No one can just come out and say replace X or Y or Z without doing this test, they would just be guessing with your wallet. Now if you prefer to start replacing modules and hope, I am more than willing to give you those instructions as long as you understand odds are the guess will be wrong.

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Customer reply replied 10 months ago
once again, it draws relatively normal until we walk away, which is the perfect symptom of the wiper motor issue. Now with new information of the parking light staying on when the key is off and the door closed, maybe an indicator to help you pinpoint what the issues might be. make sense?
Lincoln Mechanic: Chris (aka- Moose), Technician replied 10 months ago

What is relatively normal, is the draw at or near 29mA?

All 4 corner parking lights are on with the headlight switch off?

Are the interior instrument illumination lights staying on as well?

Head light switch removed are the lights staying on?

What concern are you having with the wiper motor?

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Customer reply replied 10 months ago
can i get a drawing from you as to where these modules are and also what plugs correspond with the plugs pulled and the modules like DCSM, BSM, VSM, and TBMS modules...
Lincoln Mechanic: Chris (aka- Moose), Technician replied 10 months ago

You are just jumping all over here and there. We were diagnosing a parasitic draw now we are onto parking light failure, wiper motor, and needing wire diagrams for most modules. I am not seeing us any closer to a resolve. I am going to opt out and let someone else help you. Best of luck.

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Customer reply replied 10 months ago
All 4 corner parking lights are on with the headlight switch off?
None that is not an issueAre the interior instrument illumination lights staying on as well?
no not coming on or a prolem
Head light switch removed are the lights staying on?
not staying onThe description is when i turn the key off, car in park, lights out, all instruments, off, the shifter parking LED Red is on I have never seen it on before and i thought this might help you or a colleague pinpoint where it is coming from. I think that light is related to the lighting module. but nothing else is on. Also, almost all interior lights have been replaced by LED's.What concern are you having with the wiper motor?
So ...your telling me you have never heard of the classic battery drain from the rear wiper motor? See it here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBQNYyHoqLE
You remove fuse #38 to isolate the issue. BTW - I do not hear the pivot motor noise, I just wanted to rule it out. My question was if #38 is the only fuse and is there power still going to the wiper motor that could still be the problem??? then that changed my thought when the LED parking shift light came on. Note- it does not come on every time.
Like I said, I have done my research and I am surprised you are asking about this as it is common knowledge all over the web.
Customer reply replied 10 months ago
Ok I am going by logic.
1.1st intermittent parasitic drain we cannot pinpoint and it happens over days, impossible to troubleshoot.
2. read about symptoms with wiper motor, removed #38 fuse, it is ruled out unless it has a direct 12v. My question is this a possibility. I do not see getting anything out of the KOL test because it does not happen. The only way it will work is to Disconnect one at a time and wait at least 3 days, and also drain your battery and potentially ruining it.
3. during my testing the shift LED light, which draws no current, I thought might be a telltail that might trigger something that is related, not jumping, only step by step logic.
Customer reply replied 10 months ago
in this conclusion i feel that with all the complaints on the wiper motor pivot issue, I have to rule out the obivous - Because you have not answered my key question that the back wiper motor for the piviot does NOT have any other power connected to it besides for #38 fuse, I am not taking the cowling on the motor and testing for 12v. if there is an additional 12v going to that motor, then i will disconnect 3 days and test. My guess is that there is, but what do I know. I was turning to a ford mechanic for the answer and for wisdom. e
Customer reply replied 10 months ago
New info - I pulled the wiper motor plug and I pull the plug on the motor I have confirmed #38 will take all power from the motor. So the motor is off the table.I have about 30-40ma draw after 10 min of the battery being connected.
I guess I can try the KOL but I see no point as I am not consistent.
Starting the test now.
Lincoln Mechanic: 6Bucs, Ford Technician replied 10 months ago
6Bucs
6Bucs, Ford Technician
Category: Lincoln
Satisfied Customers: 1,088
Experience: Ford, Lincoln, Mercury Senior Master Tech with 18 years dealership experience.
Verified

Hello, different expert here. #38 fuse is the rear wiper power supply, but for an intermittent parasitic drain, a better diagnostic step is to leave the rear motor connector unplugged. The washer relay circuit could potentially cause voltage backtracking through the motor. Please see the attached diagram.

James.

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Customer reply replied 10 months ago
I have it unplugged and that makes sense. I guess the other guy gave up? I do not think I have been unreasonable.I am going to do the KOL test with the wiper motor on.Have you read through the case? Is there anything about the parking shifter light in your experience? Very very intermittent.
Customer reply replied 10 months ago
I don't mind paying for an expert.
Lincoln Mechanic: 6Bucs, Ford Technician replied 10 months ago
I have not had an issue myself with the park indicator. I think the best thing to do is isolate the circuits one by one. Try the wiper motor, if nothing happens then we can move on. If too many things are going on at once, it will be difficult to know where the problem was.
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Customer reply replied 10 months ago
100% agree. I have a degree in electronics and I've been troubleshooting electronics for the lease the last 30 years and I'm usually pretty good at it this one's got me
Customer reply replied 10 months ago
I greatly appreciate your help and will try and follow the steps that makes sense. I just finished my five minutes of driving for the L test I have a 10 amp a digital meter and I also have a 40 amp a analog meter
Customer reply replied 10 months ago
If I don't find anything in the KOL test then I will do what you suggest and that is to unplug the motor which I have exposed and I'll just leave it for a couple days and see what happens I have a second car so it's not a problem
Customer reply replied 10 months ago
Soooo frustratingi am back at it for an hour as I had to take it for a ride and then followed the KOL and had 210ma steady. I unplugged the top side and it went to 00 so plugged back in. Pulled all relays and high standing fuses and ... no change. Then I did the unthinkable I rested my back on the passenger side electric seat toggle and I think that woke up the computer. It went to 800ma and the. Settled to 405ma. Does this mean I have to wait another 30 min??
Lincoln Mechanic: 6Bucs, Ford Technician replied 10 months ago

Unfortunately yes. You'll have to wait for the module to go back to sleep, or remove the accessory delay relay, which might interfere with testing.

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Customer reply replied 10 months ago
I removed all the fuses, relays, and, and plugs, and only one plug caused it to jump to 800ma. I cannot remove the pink fuses and I have no idea how to remove them. Can you help with that. Still 210ma steady, not 28ma.
e
Lincoln Mechanic: 6Bucs, Ford Technician replied 10 months ago
The large, square, pink fuses?
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Lincoln Mechanic: 6Bucs, Ford Technician replied 10 months ago

I just noticed you have a zero% history of accepting answers on this site. What this means is that though you still pay the website, the experts assisting you do not get paid. I will opt out and see if another is willing to continue. Best of luck.

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Customer reply replied 10 months ago
how can i pay you now. i only did that cause they were not helpful, you have been so i am 100% going to pay you.
Customer reply replied 10 months ago
The help that you have given me so far is worth the time and if there i a way to commit, I am saying it here. I used to do this with just fix do i know how it can be and i am sorry. I had some real bad experiences and just this one I was asking questions and they wanted to immediately refund my money, and I said no, i need help and you are helping.
e
Customer reply replied 10 months ago
if you wish, i can close this and open another and pay you twice. it is worth my while. I just pulled out all the pink fuses and no change, 210 ma
Customer reply replied 10 months ago
Hello James, I went back to look at my questions and I only have one other and if I did not close it, it was not my intention. On this one, once i asked the question it asked me for a monthly with no other choices, so I called, they wanted to give me my money back. I thought i was stuck on the monthly and i said all i need is help and not monthly. They assured me that I was not going to be a monthly. We I have an issue it is not usually a simple one or it would be fixed. This is, from what I understand, pretty hard to pinpint an intermittant issue. If you will review my first questions, I told the guy I would pay extra for time spent, I just need an expert. It has already been to the shop for 3 days. Hope this helps. e
Customer reply replied 10 months ago
Did you bail on me?
Customer reply replied 10 months ago
look like this got answered and you got paid, may i ask for you again and we continue? 09/26/2017
17978208-340
lincoln, 2004 navigator battery drains...
Deposit $5 paid
$23 paid
Refund $28 or ask again >
Customer reply replied 10 months ago
I sent an email to support - Hello, I had a conversation with
6Bucs Ford Technician, who was a great guy and good tech, and offered to pay more or do multiple sessions so he would get paid more and he writes me last that that he sees I don't pay for my sessions, and I replied. It looks like I only had one time I have asked but I maybe wrong.I want to continue with this guy and I understand how he feels. I see I paid him and absolutely do not want a refund. I also looked everywhere where to rate the guy so he would not feel like he was going to be cheated. I still have my issue but he has gotten me closer than anyone I have dealt with our payed for at a repair place. Sincerely, Eric
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