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On FL-140 for California, it wants values for assets. Currently

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On FL-140 for California, it...
On FL-140 for California, it wants values for assets.

Currently my 401k has a value of $448000..the value before the marriage was $310000 so that means from the time of marriage to the end of it, the difference is around $138000.

Does that mean the value for community property i use is $138,000 or do i need to put down the $448,000 because that is what the community has an interest in?
Submitted: 6 years ago.Category: Family Law
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9/1/2011
Family Lawyer: LawTalk, Attorney and Counselor at Law replied 6 years ago
LawTalk
LawTalk, Attorney and Counselor at Law
Category: Family Law
Satisfied Customers: 37,857
Experience: 30 years legal experience. I remain current in Family Law through regular continuing education.
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Good morning.

FL-140 is not a form you list assets and debts on. It is the cover form for the secondary form you use. Are you listing assets and debts on FL-142, FL-150 or attaching a statement?

Doug
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Customer reply replied 6 years ago

Hi Doug,

 

Fl-142 and FL 150...

 

The FL -140 seems to state that those two forms must be included as well as written statements by me as to assets and debts and opportunities in the marriage.

 

So, my question, when listing those assets on the FL-142 and FL-160..what #'s should I use?

 

the value of the current account or the difference in value between date of marriage and end of marriage?

Family Lawyer: LawTalk, Attorney and Counselor at Law replied 6 years ago
I'm opting out. Another expert may choose to assist you.

I wish you well.
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Customer reply replied 6 years ago
ok
Family Lawyer: socrateaser, Lawyer replied 6 years ago
socrateaser
socrateaser, Lawyer
Category: Family Law
Satisfied Customers: 39,498
Experience: Retired
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If you need an answer to this question, separate from your other questions and answers that I have already provided, please let me know.

Thanks.
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Customer reply replied 6 years ago

yes, I'm somewhat confused on how to identify on the forms which is separate and which community...especially on the fl-160..

 

I know i need two FL 160's

 

One for separate property and another for community...

 

but where do i state the values...current value is $440,000~

 

$310, 000 on separate property FL-160

$130,000 on community property FL-160

 

?

 

Based on your answer in a previous question of mine you said values need to be realized if you waive Final disclosure...There doesn't seem to be a need to make final disclosure if wife waives rights to everything in the MSA. Or am i misunderstanding something?

Family Lawyer: socrateaser, Lawyer replied 6 years ago
I'm not following your question. In my previous answer, I stated that the FL-142 needs to show the valuations, only if you are waiving the final declaration of disclosure (because, if you're waiving the final, then the preliminary is the only declaration that the court will receive and review).

So, I'm not sure what you're asking here about the FL-160.

Note: These forms are largely formalities, so if you get something slightly wrong it doesn't really matter. The court will not carefully review this information. If there were ever a dispute over matters, or the case became adversarial, then the declarations would be relevant. However, for the purposes of an uncontested judgment, the MSA and the FL-180 are really the only documents that matter. If those docs are correct, then your divorce will be correctly entered.

This doesn't mean you should just make stuff up for the other forms -- just that no one will slap your hand if you're off by a few bucks.

Hope this helps.

NOTICE: My goal here is to educate others about the law. I am always available to answer your follow-up questions after you click Accept – however, if you do not click Accept, the website gets paid, and I receive nothing. This is true, even if you are on a subscription plan. So please click Accept, so that I will be able to continue to provide this service for others in the future.


And, if you need to contact me again, please put my user id on the title line of your question (“To Socrateaser”), and the system will send me an alert. Thanks!

socrateaser
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Customer reply replied 6 years ago

I'm having a REAL hard time trying to understand FL-100 and which of the following forms I should use:

 

FL-100 mentions on section 5b using FL-160 to describe property

so this is where i describe on one form separate property

and then on another FL-160 the community property correct?

 

FL-140 mentions including FL-142

 

They seem to want the same information.

 

I'm assuming that FL-160 is for the court and FL-142 is served to my wife because it says NOT to file FL-142 with the court. Correct?

 

I would also assume that they need to match exactly, however, what I'm confused about is:

 

How do I break down my 401k? It's $440,000 or thereabouts and what portion of it goes where and on which form? $310,000 was prior value before the marriage and $440,000 is the current value during the marriage until separation.

 

I was going to break it down this way:

With the FL-140 attach:

FL-142...put valuation of $440,000 for the whole thing of my 401K

 

FL-160 Separate Property copy #1 $310,000

FL-160 Community Property copy #2 $130,000

 

Is this correct?

Family Lawyer: socrateaser, Lawyer replied 6 years ago

I'm having a REAL hard time trying to understand FL-100 and which of the following forms I should use:

FL-100 mentions on section 5b using FL-160 to describe property so this is where i describe on one form separate property and then on another FL-160 the community property correct?

 

A: Correct.

 

FL-140 mentions including FL-142. They seem to want the same information. I'm assuming that FL-160 is for the court and FL-142 is served to my wife because it says NOT to file FL-142 with the court. Correct?

 

A: No. The two FL-160s are served on the other party with the FL-100. The FL-142 is served on the other party, but not filed with the court. If it seems as though you are repeating the same exercise twice, you're correct. That's what you're doing. Constitutional Due Process requires a petition/complaint to start every lawsuit -- no exceptions. The petition must allege ultimate facts that if proved would permit the court to grant the requested relief -- in this case a property division. After the petition is filed and served, the law requires that the parties disclose all of their assets and debts to each other, in a sworn declaration. This is the same thing as was done in the petition, and it's a total waste of time -- but, that's how California law is currently written, so "just do it." -- Nike Slogan (circa. 1990s).

 

I would also assume that they need to match exactly, however, what I'm confused about is: How do I break down my 401k? It's $440,000 or thereabouts and what portion of it goes where and on which form? $310,000 was prior value before the marriage and $440,000 is the current value during the marriage until separation.

 

A: You assume incorrectly -- the documents do not have to match exactly -- though they frequently do match - because nothing has changed, or because they are all filed simultaneously.

 

If you have property which is both community and separate, then you list the respective values twice, with different values and a short note, on each form, e.g., "asset includes both community and separate property."

 

I was going to break it down this way: With the FL-140 attach:FL-142...put valuation of $440,000 for the whole thing of my 401K; FL-160 Separate Property copy #1 $310,000; FL-160 Community Property copy #2 $130,000

 

A: You can do it however you wish, just remember that your audience (the judge) may be (probably is) a crappy accountant and has no idea what you're doing, so if you don't explain, then he/she will have to guess.

 

One of the down sides of the "fill in the blanks" Judicial Council Forms is that they don't really allow much flexibility. Attorneys use a software system that permits writing all over the doc as may be necessary. So, you may want to consider filling out some of the forms by "hand," because it sometimes makes it easier to get your point across (as long as your handwriting is clear).

 

Hope this helps.

 

 

NOTICE: My goal here is to educate others about the law. I am always available to answer your follow-up questions after you click Accept – however, if you do not click Accept, the website gets paid, and I receive nothing. This is true, even if you are on a subscription plan. So please click Accept, so that I will be able to continue to provide this service for others in the future.


And, if you need to contact me again, please put my user id on the title line of your question (“To Socrateaser”), and the system will send me an alert. Thanks!


 

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