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Attorney2, Attorney
Category: Estate Law
Satisfied Customers: 6729
Experience:  29 Years in General Practice and Estate Planning
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My mom always spoke like this;" I worked hard so i can leave

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My mom always spoke like this; " I worked hard so i can leave something behind for my family".... SO fast forward 30 years and my family is undecided on this medicaid issue. Practically being harrassed by family that has come out of the wood work whom has never been involved in my family before, and is threatening me to have my parents sign their property over to us? I always thought if we have a cushion of rental income, that we don't need medicaid for my folks who are aging. Is there something that i am not understanding here? They are immigrants so putting them into homes is a bit of a bizar option, yet not out of the question IF THEY ACTULLY slowly get a taste of the social experience via day care and then they might welcome that system of care. My fear is they can not be monitored and can take a fall or not have their pee pads changed enough and be susceptible to UTI etc. At home they integrate with family and have caregivers taking them out to lunch and shows and local dancing and other gatherings. Although that is eating into their savings overnight. My folks are getting frail but mobile with short and long term memory loss between them that varies... Would their medicare suffice because if it does, then why would i want medicaid for them if medicaid is created for the poor? Is it because there will be nothing left to share after they die because medical bills will wipe out any inheritance there could have been? Is there a middle ground or compromise to someone who feels ethics trumps? I know medical bills are insane such as a sitz bath costing $70 when it really costs $20
Submitted: 8 months ago.
Category: Estate Law
Expert:  Attorney2 replied 8 months ago.

Welcome and thank you for your question. Medicaid takes into consideration the property owned by the person(s) st the time they apply. Further, there is look back period which means that conveyances of title to property 5 years prior to applying for medicaid will deemed a fraudulent transfer. Don't let any push you or your parents to do anything. You are correct it is created for the poor people. Families have found ways to transfer anything of value so the elder person will live on medicaid alone. Any transfer needs to be made 5 years in advance of applying. Have they applied for may benefits?

Expert:  Attorney2 replied 8 months ago.

Medicaid’s Five Year Look-Back Period

By: Roman Aminov, Esq.

"Anyone who has researched Medicaid planning has almost certainly heard of Medicaid’s dreaded five year look-back rule. I am not exactly sure why out of all the idiosyncrasies of New York’s Medicaid laws, the five year look-back is one of the most ubiquitous, but my guess is because it is one of the harshest. This article will attempt to explain how the 5 year look-back works and what seniors and their caretakers can do to plan around it.

The Rule:
If a New Yorker needs nursing home services and applies to Medicaid to pay for them, Medicaid looks back for 5 years to see whether he or his spouse made any gifts or uncompensated transfers of assets. If the individual or their spouse made any gifts within 5 years of the date of the Medicaid nursing home application, NY State imposes a penalty period based on the size of the uncompensated transfer, which is called a penalty period. The penalty period is calculated by combining all gifts made within the 60 months prior to the application divided by the average monthly cost of a nursing home which, in New York City, is $11,843 in 2015. The penalty period starts from the time the client is in the nursing home, is otherwise eligible for Medicaid, and has used up his “non-exempt resources”, which are liquid assets over $14,850. It is important to note that, currently, in New York, there is no penalty for these transfers if the senior requires “community Medicaid” which includes Medicaid home care services. Client are often surprised (and relieved) to learn this, but that doesn’t mean that they shouldn’t plan for two reasons: (1) we never know if and when nursing home care will be required and (2) New York may follow other states and change its laws to impose a penalty period even for community Medicaid.

The Application:
For example, Joe, 72 and single, owns $110,000 worth of stocks and a checking account worth $14,850 when he suddenly suffers a stroke and needs a skilled nursing facility to care for him. If Joe gifts away his money now, he will have a penalty period of approximately 9 months ($110,000 divided by $11,843), which means that Medicaid will not cover his care during that period and he will have to retrieve the gifts he made and pay for his own care. At this point, Joe has a couple of options: (1) he can spend $110,000 of his money on nursing home care or (2) with the help of an elder attorney, Joe can engage in “promissory note planning” which, while outside the scope of this article, can help him preserve roughly half of his assets if implemented properly.

The Exceptions:
There are exceptions to the transfer penalty rules, which should be discussed with a qualified Medicaid planning lawyer before any transfer of assets is undertaken. The most commonly used ones are the transfer of the applicant’s home to his spouse or to a caretaker child who resided in the home with the applicant two years before the application and provided care. Additionally, any assets transferred to a spouse are exempt from penalties, as are assets left in trust for the sole benefit of a disabled child or a disabled individual under 65. An exception can also be made if the transfers were made solely for a purpose other than to qualify for Medicaid.

Please do not hesitate to ask me any additional questions that you may have with regard to this matter. It would be my pleasure to continue to assist you. If you would be kind enough to rate my service positively so I will receive credit for my work I would appreciate it. Thank you for using JA.

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
Sigh... So if the eldery parents have rental income of approx $30,000 in profit yearly be able to provide life time quality nursing care that is independent of gov assistance ? I would only consider a nursing home if a parent was completely immobile and bored senseless remaining home. Then if they were in a nursing facility, they could at least be wheeled around and sit in with other folks for dining and will have entertainment and music... That is what i imagine could be the benefit of being in a nursing home. But otherwise, if they are mobile with dementia, the risk is that a fall is very likely once they enter the nursing home. I would do my best to make my own home user friendly if that is even possible. I would like to know if families are managing just fine and without short changing or compromising the elders care in anyway if they DONT have their elder family in nursing homes? And i think the fear is the high cost of the nursing homes isn't that correct?
Expert:  Attorney2 replied 8 months ago.
There are many concerns with elder care centers. And yes the fear is the high cost leaving heirs with no money. Personally if my parent has the money I want them to have the best quality of life and I could not monitor the nursing home 24/7. People generally deteriorate faster once they are in a home. Thank you for using JA.
Customer: replied 8 months ago.
Hmm. Do they really deteriorate sooner in a nursing home? A family member is threatening me with calls to Senior Protective Services and I can't figure out why except this Medicaid issue. The relative insists my parents need to be protected in nursing homes and that I should get a job and that I'm dipping into the money pot? This only happened this past year outta the blue. Do you think I'm doing anything backwards?
Customer: replied 8 months ago.
Also, do you think there are people like elder care advocates that are trying to force the elderly out of their home enviornments for the sole purpose to have the elderly spend their monies by convincing them to enter nursing homes or retirment communities? That would deplete their assets quickly and then they will be stuck with nothing so they can get medicaid and the nursing home was able to go crazy charging tons of things to deplete those funds asap?
Expert:  Attorney2 replied 8 months ago.

I am not an elder care physician so I cannot speak to the environment. I can only say that what I have seen is that placing them in a nursing home causes faster deterioration in the cases I have been involved with. Let them call APS if there is no issue you have nothing to worry about. You can also ask them nicely to stop harassing you. If they do not talk to an attorney.

You may wish to speak to one of the Dr.'s or nurses on this site with regard to your concerns about the quality of life after people are placed in homes. As far as your initial question there is a 5 year look back period that all transfers would need to be paid for them to receive medicaid lawfully.

Thank you for using JA.

If you would be kind enough to rate my service positively so I will receive credit for my work I would appreciate it. Thank you for using JA.

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
34;I could not monitor the nursing home 24/7. People generally deteriorate faster once they are in a home"
BY "home" you always mean a nursing home, right?
WHy would you have to monitor the nursing home if that is suppose to be "safer" for the elderly ? And why is everyone going into nursing homes or why are people sending their elderly parents into nursing homes if they know they will deteriorate in there? Do you think it is because for people who send their eldery parents into nursing homes, it is because their home life might be worse? I think that at home, there is a chance of falling which is the same rate as in a nursing home. It all depends on the balance of the individual. The only benefit i see or value in a nursing home is the anticipation of social gatherings and possible connections with other seniors IF AND ONLY IF an individual is actually able to gravitate to interacting on some levels. SOme elderly will get crabby and mental if their old baggage is permanently part of their personality. Please chime in because it helps me sort through this dilema/.
Expert:  Attorney2 replied 8 months ago.
I meant to say nursing home. You will want to speak to a medical professional with regard to the psychology of what occurs when you remove the elderly from their homes. You can check out reviews on nursing homes. I have heard of abuse and neglect at home and in a nursing home environment. The question you asked was with regard to signing over property and going into a nursing home. Transferring property at this point and placing them in a nursing home to qualify for Medicaid would need to occur 5 years prior to them applying for Medicaid otherwise this would be considered a fraudulent transfer. I can only answer the legal questions. If you feel your parents are still 5 years away from needing a nursing home or Medicaid I would set up a consultation with a local estates planning attorney. Thank you for using JA.
Expert:  Attorney2 replied 8 months ago.
Please open a question in our medical or nursing categories as I am unable to discuss in detail what the needs of your parents are medically and physically. If you would be kind enough to rate my service so I will receive credit for my work I would appreciate it.
Expert:  Attorney2 replied 8 months ago.

If you would be kind enough to rate my service positively so I will receive credit for my work I would appreciate it. Thank you for using JA.

Expert:  Attorney2 replied 8 months ago.
Did you want me to opt out?
Customer: replied 8 months ago.
No.... Don't opt out. I haven't had a chance to go over your info. I promise to catch up in a day or two. A very much appreciate the clarification so far.
Customer: replied 8 months ago.
Are you a NY city attorney?
Customer: replied 8 months ago.
If the "call me" box appears, does that mean you are online ?
Customer: replied 8 months ago.
Or that an appointment time will be given to me for the following day if I'm clicking on that option at midnight?
Expert:  Attorney2 replied 8 months ago.
You would want to contact customer service. I was hoping you would rate my legal answer positively.
Expert:  Attorney2 replied 8 months ago.

I will stay in but I do not participate in phone calls. Another attorney will respond if you decide to ask for a call. I work in this format only. Thank you.

Customer: replied 8 months ago.
WHy does a window keep popping up asking if i want a phone chat?
Expert:  Attorney2 replied 8 months ago.
I have no idea why the site is asking if you want a phone chat. The Attorneys answer questions we do not handle the format or operation of the site. Nor do we have access to customer accounts or billing information. If you have any questions with regard to a phone chat please do not hesitate to contact customer service. In the meantime did you have any additional questions with regard to your original question? If not. Thank you for using JA
Expert:  Attorney2 replied 8 months ago.
This is a link for customer service
Expert:  Attorney2 replied 6 months ago.

I have still have not had a response from you on this question.

If you would be kind enough to rate my service positively so I will receive credit for my time and work I would appreciate it.

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