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Would this work well? Disk jet turbine. Counter rotating…

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Would this work well? Disk jet...
Would this work well?
Disk jet turbine.Counter rotating turbines in disk or frisbee shape with ports on front and back to give a ram/scram jet combination. Increased radius increases tip speed.
Submitted: 3 months ago.Category: Engineering
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Answered in 1 hour by:
3/18/2018
Engineer: Matt, Engineer replied 3 months ago
Matt
Matt, Engineer
Category: Engineering
Satisfied Customers: 23,204
Experience: Mechanical Engineering Hons degree, been working in automotive industry for the last 18 years - Engine development engineer
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Hello and welcome to Just Answer

OK can you elaborate on how you would feed air and fuel into this device?

also where would the combustion chamber be?

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
Air would come in the front and shoot out the back top and bottom with separate chambers and counter rotating turbines in each chamber. There are several plans for combustion, one is to use reciprocating engines to start the fans spinning them spray fuel into back turbine chambers and ignite it.
Customer reply replied 3 months ago
Plans for hopefully nuclear powered reciprocating engine to spin turbines then either compressed pure oxygen and hydrogen combustion in fans or like space shuttle separate. Hoping for space shuttle with almost flying cars with gasoline.
Engineer: Matt, Engineer replied 3 months ago

Hello

OK I think that having counter rotating turbines may lead to a lot of complication , as how would you get the discs to drive to the fan? or do you plan to use the exhaust to provide the thrust?

potentially if all the discs turned in the same direction then this may work

however I think you're then basically repeating what an existing jet turbine does

if you take a look at the RB211 cutaway image you'll see it is made up of a series of compressor sections and combustion gas is fed into each section from the external chambers and this all goes to produce motion on the central shaft to turn the fan which provides the majority of the thrust

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
No the cock pit is in the center. The fans move around the cock pit like a ufo ��!
Engineer: Matt, Engineer replied 3 months ago

OK I don't think that is going to work

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Engineer: Matt, Engineer replied 3 months ago

I''m going to opt out

best of luck

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
Wh?what!
Customer reply replied 3 months ago
Why won’t anyone answer the question?
Engineer: William Purpura,
 replied 3 months ago
William Purpura
Category: Engineering
Satisfied Customers: 13
Experience: Managing General Partner at Dargon Developement
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The real problem here is the basic concept of a "Flying Saucer type craft, your proposed propulsion system becomes irrelevant due to fatal flight control and stability issues with them. The US Government did experiment with such craft and things did NOT go well!! See the links below

https://www.airspacemag.com/military-aviation/the-pentagons-flying-saucer-problem-4613827/?page=1

https://www.theverge.com/2012/10/7/3465566/us-air-force-flying-saucer-declassified

To quote the test pilot on the one prototype:

“This one violated every aerodynamic stability and control concept imaginable,”

To be honest, the idea that "Flying Saucers" MIGHT exist lead some people to believe that such a form factor could be a viable form of flight. This was found to be an astoundingly bad idea when testing showed it was totally uncontrollable. This alone makes any form of a "flying saucer" craft unfeasible from a practical operational point of view. Do note that today's drones are a type of "flying saucer" craft but they are totally incapable of the type of flight operations, speed, and endurance that you are looking for. Now factor in the massive increase in weight, complexity, and fuel/engine management required by your propulsion system approach and you just add even more reasons this will not work. As a retired Boeing Senior System Engineer and holder of 20 awarded patents, many dealing with aircraft, I understand what is like to propose a new concept to the technical community. However, I also know not all of them will be feasible to execute due to valid practical/technical/economic reasons (I average a 40% success ratio). You are to be commended for thinking outside the box but it is time to retire this concept. You can now apply your innovation to other problems that catch your interest and passion. Keep up pushing the envelope and I wish you better luck on your next concepts

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
I’m at work I’ll get back to you.
Customer reply replied 3 months ago
Have you ever seen this design?
Customer reply replied 3 months ago
I’ve seen there’s it was different. It didn’t rely on all tip speed. Take away the more eccentric debate and debate will this work well as an aircraft of some kind and have you seen a similar design?
Engineer: William Purpura,
 replied 3 months ago

I have seen the picture. As an aerospace engineer, with more than a passing background in propulsion systems, I can say I have never seen your concept proposed. However, I can also say that does not surprise me at all. As Matt discussed earlier there are multiple reasons your proposed concept, although it might theoretically function, is not practically feasible. It is massively more complex as well as more weight than current designs while not providing anywhere near the possible performance gains needed to offset these negatives. Just the idea massive coaxial operation of the turbines is a fatal issue. If you look at the use of counter-rotating propellers on the Russian Tu-95 turboprop bomber

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-95

You can see they are open to the air and not contained within a very tight shell as the turbines must be. The separation between the two props allows them to flex independently without fear of hitting each other. Due to the turbines distortion during flight, it would be impossible to prevent them from crashing into each other during operation. The concept will require some form of interfacing roller bearing system to avoid impact which would dramatically add weight and complexity while reducing power due to added friction. The bot***** *****ne, your new propulsion concept does not provide any technical or cost advantages over the existing solutions.

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
They will not crash into eachother they are in separate chambers and all turbines are in housings except prop planes. Four 350 horsepower reciprocating engines should spin them and then fuel could egnite in the chambers to add thrust from explosion.
Customer reply replied 3 months ago
My design is nothing like the 1950 design
Customer reply replied 3 months ago
My tip speed is at Mach speed minimum in some designs.
Customer reply replied 3 months ago
The Air comes in through the front of the craft and out the back almost straight through.
Customer reply replied 3 months ago
I use a different transmission with more gear sets and the ports do not need to be opened until turbine speed is attained
Engineer: William Purpura,
 replied 3 months ago

I consider my self very knowledgeable here; 33 years in DoD aerospace, BSME, MSME, & PE, 20+ patents plus multiple Boeing trade secrets. I spent my last 13 years as one of Boeing's most senior system engineers identifying/defining next-generation aerospace technologies.

To answer your last question. No, I have never seen such a design as you describe, probably because it is not feasible. It is too complex, costly, takes to much on the craft, adds too much weight, and offers no significant NET power gains. Again all while being placed on an airframe that "violated every aerodynamic stability and control concept imaginable". I am sorry, Like Matt, I am going to have to opt out here also.

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
After seeing the 1950 saucer design I’m not sure your credentials matter.
Customer reply replied 3 months ago
Could have been another Heron of Alexandria mistake, and if someone else came up with it I’m not sure about the outcome.
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