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I have an old Hammond organ, about 50=-60 years old. It has…

I have an old...

I have an old Hammond organ, about 50=-60 years old. It has not been played in the past 30 years. It now does not play at all. When I turn it on, the light goes on but no keys give any sound. it has never been abused, just sat in a room as a piece of furniture so it is beautiful. How can I determine what is wrong. If I were to look at its inside can I determine whether any radio tubes are dead and need to just be replaced. What else could I do to assess its non sound? It is model L-102; serial number 10785

Technician's Assistant: When did this audio problem start with your L-102?

The organ sits in a chapel of an old school in the Bronx which I gave it to and has not been played for some 30 years. So it could have become disabled any time during that period.

Technician's Assistant: Is the audio working with headphones or external speakers?

Its sound comes from within the organ itself and does not require headphones or external speakers

Technician's Assistant: Anything else you want the Instrument Expert to know before I connect you?

I think that is about it.

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Answered in 9 hours by:
5/2/2018
Harry
Harry, Customer Service
Category: Electronic Musical Instruments
Satisfied Customers: 2,577
Experience: IT at Justanswer
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Hello:

Welcome to JustAnswer! My name is ***** ***** I am happy to be assisting you today. My sincerest apologies that it look so long for someone to reply. I've just logged in and saw your question waiting and I'm happy to assist you. Before we begin, can you please let me know if you still need help with your question? Just use the reply box to let me know.

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Customer reply replied 2 months ago
Harry: Do you have my original question to respond to? Or am I supposed to repeat it again here. I typed in "yes" to the above box assuming you had my original question.
Ron Winston
Ron Winston, Owner of Winston Electronics, Servicing music electronics for over 50 years
Category: Electronic Musical Instruments
Satisfied Customers: 486
Experience: Factory Certified Technician
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Hello: My name is ***** ***** I am a Hammond certified technician. I will try to help you today. This organ uses a motor driven generationg system for the notes. There should be a shelf in the back that has this large mechanical device on it. on the left side is a blue motor. Is that motor running?

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Customer reply replied 2 months ago
Hello Ron: I will get back to you about this question you ask. I have to wait until the school opens again next week where the organ is located to check out the blue motor you refer to. Hang on with me. Edward

That is fine with me. The only problem is there is a timer on the website that after a given length of time the question goes inactive.

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Customer reply replied 2 months ago
Ron: do you know when the "timer" length goes inactive?

I'm not sure but I think it is about a week from the question being opened, so we are pretty close to that now.

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Customer reply replied 2 months ago
I don't want to lose you. How can I extend this service from you. I will not get into the school until next Thursday. Is my communication here like this enough to keep us open for another week?

There is only a few of us answering musical questions, so your chance of getting me is good. If the question does drop off you can request me at any time.

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Customer reply replied 2 months ago
thanks!! I will get the info as quickly as I can on Thursday. The only info I can provide to you at this time is the following. When I turn the organ on the on switch lights up and then there is a loud motorized noise that sounds out continuously. When I look inside the back of the organ I see two faintly lit radio tubes on the middle of the top shelf. On the bottom right side is a larger radio tube that is also faintly lit. I cannot make out the numbers on the smaller tubes, but the larger one is 31262-13 MZW.

Great. look for any tubes that are not lighting at all. The number on that tube is a production code, not the actual tube number. You are looking for a number that starts with a 12 or a 5 or a 6, for example, 12AU7, or 5U4, or 6BQ5.

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Customer reply replied 2 months ago
OK I will check that out and get back to you.

Have you had a chance to check out the motor and tubes yet?

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Customer reply replied 2 months ago
thanks for getting back to me Ron. I was afraid our time had run out and I just got the measurements last night to your questions. It goes like this:
1. There are two shelves inside the organ. The top shelf left side has two tubes. They say 61-52 13820 and 5143 27. The top right side has one number 12AX7.2. The bottom side has six tubes. Beginning at the left and going toward the right, it goes like this: EL84 6BQ5 62-01; then EL 84 6BQ5 62-01; then 12AX70 612852 and 12B47; finally, 12BH7A 6204 274; and 12AX7. I don't know if this adds up to six, but all the numbers are there. I see that some of these tubes do have the numbers you spoke of3. It seems all the tubes have a faint light, some very faint.The one feature that "cries out" is the loud motorized continuous sound that comes when the organ switch is turned on. it sounds like a loud fire alarm sounding that does not stop.I hope some of this helps in my attempt to self correct the organ's sickness. Do you think that is possible or should I think of just scrapping the whole thing. It is such a beautifull piece of furniture since it has rarely being played or touched that I would hate to do this. But it is old (about 50-60 years old) and I am wondering if parts exist to replace if the tubes are the problem.Thanks
Edward

OK from what you are saying here is where I think we are. On the bottom side of that shelf is the mechanical generator. That is what actually makes the notes. For that unit to work right it is supposed to be run regularly and oiled "once" a year. Obviously that has not been done. with the loud noise you hear, that is where I believe the problem is, so you need to direct the service in that area. The blue motor needs to be turning. and turning the generator which is to the right of it. "START THERE", there are oil cups on each side of the blue motor.. There is also two white funnels on top of the generator. Oil the motor and generator. Use only Hammond oil. Let it sit for a couple of days so the oil can get to the bearings. If that does not clear it up. You will have to go to plan "B" Lift the generator up from the shelf and spray all the bearings "and there is a lot of them" with WD-40 then manually turn the motor shaft until it feels free. Your problem is letting the unit sit without being used or oiled for 30 years. Good luck.

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Customer reply replied 2 months ago
Ron: I have read your notes many times and appreciate the details you have given me to go to the next step. I am glad to hear that the problem probably is in the lack of oiling over the decades and that is where I should begin.I will need to know how to know where the oil cups are located for both the motor and the generator you speak of. How will I determine these locations?. Will it be clear to me where the two white tunnels on the top of the generator are as well as the oil cups on each side of the blue motor? And above all, where the mechanical generator and the blue motor themselves are located?I will not discuss Plan B at this point but wait to see if Plan A does the job.Where do I buy the Hammond oil?thanks for this conversation.
edward

I can send you some pictures but it would be Monday before I can do that. I can sell you the Hammond oil. It cost $6.95 a tube plus shipping and each oiling is one tube. It has been so long since the last oiling you should need two tubes the first time. For oil call(###) ###-####/p>

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Customer reply replied 2 months ago
Ron: thanks again for your quick response. Please do send those pics you refer to in your note. Monday is fine since I do not have access to the organ until weekdays anyway.. I would like to have you send the oil and I will pay for the two tubes plus shipping you refer to. Shall I still call the number you gave me or is this consent enough to send the product to me? Edward

Give that number a call on Monday and we can set up the delivery for you

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Customer reply replied 2 months ago
ok

Here are the oiling points. Use 1-2 drops on the motor and split what is left in the tube between the two white funnels on the generator.

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Customer reply replied 2 months ago
Thanks again Ron for this continued conversation. I just called your number and ordered the oil to be shipped to me. I also see your note about oiling the motor as well as the white funnels on the generator. I printed up your attachment diagram of the interior of the organ and will try to figure things out from there about where to put the oil. I wil also keep this conversation going throughout the week by letting you know when the oil is delivered. Then my hoped for "success" in doing the job.

Your oil has been shipped

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
Ron: Having received the Hammod oil you sent me, I tried to oil the parts you indicated in your diagram you sent me of the sections in the motor and generator of the organ. I had difficulty I locating those parts, not seeing the same in the diagram and the actual organ interior..I think I found the motor part, a small tube like structure with a flip-flop cap which could be held open to insert the oil This tube structure was adjacent to the motor itself. I could not locate the generator cups you spoke of or circled in your diagram. I would like to send you picture of the organ interior, which I just took to see if that might help you locate the exact opening to insert the oil. I do not know how to send these pics to you. I see there is an icon to the right of the message box where I am typing this note to you, but it is not working for me. Could I send you the pics by direct e mail to you ? If so I would attach the pics that way. THAT I am able to do. Edward

If you look at the wooden shelf above the generator you will see holes cut into it. In those holes are white plastic funnels that is where you oil the generator. And AGAIN: "IS THE MOTOR AND GENERATOR TURNING???"

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FYI...You said you had an L102, The picture I sent is the back of the L102 directly from the Hammond service manual.

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
Ron: I got your explanation and reviewed the diagram again. The wooden shelf you refer to above the generator I have located. So the generator itself is the long section of clips with insulated wires running from right to left of the whole width of the organ. Above this clipped section is the wooden shelf you refer to. Is that correct? The wooden shelf above the clipped section has two or three holes cut into it, rather ordinary looking. .Are these the points to squeeze the oil into.. Within these holes are the white plastic funnels you speak of. Do I just squeeze the oil into the holes or do I have to also locate these whites plastic funnels? Is this correct so far?On the far left side is the self starting synchronous motor with a tube like structure next to it with a hinge type cap to lift up, squeeze the oil, then release your hold and it snaps back into place. Is this correct as well?So far I have just managed to oil that tube like capped piece next to the motor but could not locate the generator points. If I am correct in now understanding where these generator points are, as spoken of above, I will do that this week.At this point the motor and generator are NOT turning.

Yes, those white cups are where you put the oil. The tubes with caps are the oiling for the motor. Let's go over the oiling instructions one more time. Take one of the tubes of oil, put about 5 drops of oil in each of the tubes for the motor. Then split what is left of the tube between the two white cups. Do this for each tube of oil. Manually rotate the motor shaft without turning the unit on. Use your hand and turn the shaft that runs from the motor to the generator until it is relatively free. then start the organ. If that generator and motor do not turn you will get no sound from the organ.

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
Ron: You are dealing here with a man who knows absolutely nothing mechanical. so bear with me..I do not see any "white cups" anywhere for either the motor or generator. All I see is one capped tube next to the motor on the left and a couple of holes in the plank of wood above the clipped wire section that extends the width of the organ from left to right.which I take to be the generator.. Are the white cupped structures hidden in back of the holes in this plank of wood?Where is the shaft that runs from the motor to the generator?

Well, in all honesty, this is not rocket science. Let's start with the motor. On each end of the motor is a tube sticking up with a flip cap on it. "one on each end of the motor." You lift that cap up and put the oil into the tubes. Now for the generator. Look down into the holes in the shelf over the generator. There are a total of two funnels one about 1/3 of the way down and the other is about 2/3 of the way down. Most of them are white plastic, there are a few that used a metal brass colored funnel. Put the rest of the oil in there. Now for the shaft. Standing from behind the organ. Find the motor, coming out the center of the motor on the right side is a shaft. If you follow that shaft you will find a spring coupling it another shaft that goes into the generator. That is the shaft that should be turning when the motor is running. That is the shaft you rotate by hand to loosen it up. I really wish i could be there to do it for you because this entire process normally takes about a minuit.

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
Ron: I think your clarification has made things clearer and thank you for this. When I go into the school sometime this week I will bring all your notes with me and follow sentence by sentence. While I know this is not rocket science, it is for me. And of course I do know that if you were there it would all be done in a minute (if even that long.) It will be several days before you hear from me again so don't forget me.
Customer reply replied 1 month ago
Ron: I took the notes I wrote from your directions and looked carefully into the organ and clearly now saw the blue motor, the shaft, the two cups on the shelf above the generator. I. oiled the two tubes with flip tops flanki ng both sides of the motor and put 15 drops of oil into the plastic cups in the holes above the generator. The motor shaft now turns. In turning the organ on , there was a slight sound of organ notes coming when I pushed the full organ stop down. Very Slight,but some life came forth. I will now wait for the oil to seep down during the week and then observe again.I noticed that 4 small radio tubes (12AX 7A and 6c4) were not lit. And also 2 tubes (12+U7 and 12BH7) were not lit.Originally I thought they all at least a faint lite, but now, having looked carefully, they are unlit when I turn the organ on. Does that mean they all have to be replaced? If so where do I go from here about that problem?

If there are 6 tubes not lighting the trouble is not 6 bad tubes. Are any of the tube lighting up? if so which ones?

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If you can send me a picture of the inside of this organ.

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
I will get the numbers on the tubes that DO light up, as you asked when I get into the school again this week.I do have pictures of the inside of the organ but I do not know how to send them to you through this site we are conversing in. The only way I know how to do this is through regular email. Can you send me your regular email?

Send them to***@******.***

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
ok

The reason I wanted to see a picture was to confirm that you do have an L102. And you do. I was hoping since the unit had not been used in years that oiling the motor and generator was the only problem. When you try it again, if the motor is turning and you still have no sound that would indicate a second problem in the electronics of the unit. I have seen maybe one or two tubes not lighting up in a unit, but it is almost impossible for six tubes to not be lighting up and have it be six bad tubes. there has to be some other problem causing that. Here is what concerns me. We have been working on this for almost a month with over 36 messages and all we have done is oil the generator. If we have to now troubleshoot the electronics I am afraid that will be way over your head. And you might, if you want to repair it, call in a technician at this time. The Hammond is a good organ that held its value well over the years so it would be worth having that done. So what would you like to do from here?

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
Ron: When I go into the school on Thursday, I wil now see whether the motor continues to turn and any sound comes forth. This will have given the oil a week to flow through, so some activity should be present.I will also send you the number of tubes that DO light up, as you commented on. rather than which ones do not.It sounds like we are honing in on some conlcusions of our work together. If a technician would be best, ***** ***** need to tap your possible knowledge of anyone you may know in the Bronx, NY area. I already called a couple who were listed in the phone book but they no longer do this kind of work. I located one in New Jersey, but now we are going further and further away. There must be some local technicians somewhere nearer but I do not know how to resource their whereabouts. Lets talk more about this after I see what the organ "has to say" when I go in on 'Thursday.

OK. Look carefully at the tubes and turn off the room lights to darken it some of those tubes are hard to see if they are lighting up.

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
ok
Customer reply replied 1 month ago
Ron: Following up all we have spoken of:When I turned the organ on I was surprised to hear loud volume full organ and other SWELL keyboard tones pour out. They were not in hamoney with each other but were producing loud musical tones, a contrast indeed from previous weeks. The GREAT organ keyboard produced no sound. Motor was still turning well.I turned the lights out as you suggested to me to more clearly see which tubes were lighting. It went like this;On the top shelf above the generator going from left to right the lit tubes were 12AU7A on the left side and on the right side tube GC4. On the bottom shelf were EL84)6B05 and FL84/6B05 and 5U4GBI do not of course know what all this means and if you have any question I w ill go back and recheck.Still hoping we can salvage the instrument.

OK that is great. It sounds like you have only two problems left...1) Some of the notes are not in harmony. and ..2) the lower keyboard does not play. Lets take the problems one at a time. First of all if you have any tubes not lighting you will hear no sound from the organ. So it would seem that all the tubes are working even though you can't see them. Lets start with problem #1. The generator you have been oiling makes all the notes for both keyboards. Inside it has a series of gears and bearings and clutches. If any of those gears are not up to full speed or not turning at all "any of them" that will cause the harmony problem. So give the oil a little longer to work it't way in. Problem #2 You have to have some switches on for the lower keyboard to work. Look at the picture I sent. and make sure you have turned on what i have marked. See if the lower keyboard then works?

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
Thanks Ron for your nice reply. Glad it sounds like things are going well. I will see if the oiling aleady given has made any further progress in bringing harmony to the sound of the keys in the top keyboard.when I go to the school next week. I may even add a bit more if needed. As far as Problem # 2 which you refer to, I will follow the picture you sent and arranges the drawbars accordingly.
Customer reply replied 1 month ago
RON: in FOLLOWING UP ON YOUR SUGGESTIONS THIS WEEK I FOUND THIS:1.I have given the oil two weeks to seep in and also have given more oil this past week to both motor and generator. Both tubes you sent me are now empty. Since the oil tube tip and the cups to put them into are a bit difficult to get to, I hope enough went into their slots without too much missing. Thus the two tubes are empty, hoping sufficient oild went through which I believe it did.2. In following your diagram instiructions and pulling out the necessary drawbars, both keyboards now emit musical sounds, loud voume when the ;pedal is depressed. There is no longer a problem with the lower keyboard not working.3. The main problem at this point seems to be the lack of harmony between the sounds. Each key on both keyboards emits its sound well, but not in harmony with the others. Pedals appear to work well. So the lack of harmony appears to be the main problem now, although they do seem to be a bit better in this than last time .. a bit.I hope all of the above continues to be good news and we can correct the harmony problem.

OK now you have me confused. I don't know what you mean by not in harmony? Do you mean the tuning is off? If that is it. Here is what is going on. The generator you have been oiling controls the tuning for the organ. Each key you play has a gear in the generator to make it's note. If the gear does not turn as we had at first, the note doesn't sound. If it is spinning at the wrong speed it will generate notes out of tune. If you press for example a "C" key on the top keyboard and then play the same "C" on the lower keyboard they are using the same gear to make the note. It is almost impossible for the generator to be spinning and spinning at the wrong speed on some notes. My thought is since you did not know what to turn on to make the lower keyboard work it is also possible you have something still not set up wrong. Try looking on the internet for information on how to set up a Hammond organ and see if you possibly don't have something set wrong. Beyond that, I have no idea.

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
Ron: When I say that the notes are "out of harmony" I mean that, as I play a scale, each tone in the scale does not follow from the one before. Thus, when I play the scale: do, re, me, fa, sol la, ti, do, I may get do, la, re, sol, fa,mi,do. The tones are out of sequence. That is true for both keyboards. Tones come out but not what they are supposed to sound like in relation to each other.You say thatYou say I may still not have something set up right. What would be the next step to determine whether or not that is the case.. I have looked on You Tube for Hammond Organ instructions but it has not been helpful. Only your instructions have been so.You say that it is almost impossible for the generator to be spinning and spinning at the wrong speed on some notes. How do know that the generator is spinning? I know the motor is because I see the rod connecting it to the generator spinning. Does that spinning from the motor mean that the generator IS spinnng as well?

That is a better way to explain the issue. Here is what is going on. Under each key is 7 contacts for the note to sound in order they ALL must make contact when you push the key down. The unit is old and the contacts are tarnished and when you push the key down only some of them are making. This is caused by the very first thing you mentioned, a long time without being played. The only fix for this is to play the organ and continue to bounce the keys up and down until they clean up. This could take a long time but it will have to be done.

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
Ron: I will give this a try, continuing to bounce the keys up and down until they clean up. I will continue doing this and get back to you when I sense they are making progress. Thanks.

I have been working with you for almost a month and a half at this time. I am surprised the question is still active. So before the site cut's it off could you rate what we have already done?

Ron Winston
Ron Winston, Owner of Winston Electronics, Servicing music electronics for over 50 years
Category: Electronic Musical Instruments
Satisfied Customers: 486
Experience: Factory Certified Technician
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Customer reply replied 28 days ago
Ron: I think I have rated you. Let me know if this came through.Otherwise I will do it promptly. I just don't want my rating you to cut me off from our ongoing work together.I have now gone back to the organ and played and pounded on its keys and see that it is slowly coming back into the proper sequencing of tones that I referred to in my last note. I will go again soon to see if this progress continues. The loud continuous sound still continues without letup when I turn the organ on. What is this about?

The only thing I know of that would make a "loud continuous noise" would be dry bearings in the generator. I could suggest..there is a fiber cover over the bottom of the generator held on with metal clips. Take that down so you can lay down and see the gears and bearings in the generator and attempt to spray them with WD-40. There are two possibles here. 1) as you said it has just been so long since it was oiled. or 2) someone used the wrong oil in the past and gummed up the strings that move the oil down to the bearings.

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Customer reply replied 28 days ago
thanks again Ron for this info. I will check soon again when the school opens for summer school and get back to you. Shall I rate you as per the direction in the green oblog box above? i just don't want my rating to disconect us.

I know that just rating a technician will not cut off the conversation. However the time interval between responses might.

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Customer reply replied 28 days ago
Ron: I see from the top of this form that I have rated you so at this time will not do so again unless I am instructed to do so. You certainly are five starred each time so I will continue the way we have. So far, our time frame for conversation has not cut us off. I just have to make sure I keep our conversation going each week.

great, let me know how it works out.

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Customer reply replied 27 days ago
ok
Customer reply replied 16 days ago
Ron: this is just a continued open communication between us so that we do not get disconnected. I have not been able to get into the school to continue the organ work but will get back to you when I can. I just don't want to lose you

OK

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486 satisfied customers
Just got a 1969 B3/122 combo After a clean and lube it fired
Just got a 1969 B3/122 combo After a clean and lube it fired up and runs real quiet. All the combinations seem to work however the output is barely audible on all combinations. The tubes I can see wit… read more
Ron Winston
Ron Winston
Owner of Winston Electronics, Servicing music electronics for over 50 years
486 satisfied customers
I have a touch 1 Hammond organ that I have not played for
Good morning! I have a touch 1 Hammond organ that I have not played for about a year! I switch it on just now, the light goes on but there is no sound? … read more
Ron Winston
Ron Winston
Owner of Winston Electronics, Servicing music electronics for over 50 years
486 satisfied customers
A friend has a Hammond organ model 227222 purchased in 1982.
A friend has a Hammond organ model 227222 purchased in 1982. When I turn it on it only plays a background rhythm, none of the keys will play. I have tried the drawbars, etc but no keys play. Am I miss… read more
Ron Winston
Ron Winston
Owner of Winston Electronics, Servicing music electronics for over 50 years
486 satisfied customers
I just bought a model 232114 hammond organ that does not
i just bought a model 232114 hammond organ that does not play. everything seems to be powered up but none of the keys or pedals play.… read more
Ron Winston
Ron Winston
Owner of Winston Electronics, Servicing music electronics for over 50 years
486 satisfied customers
I bought a small wooden Hammond organ at a second haqnd
I bought a small wooden Hammond organ at a second haqnd store. It is about 4 feet wide and has two keyboards of 44 keys each with the top keyboard offset about one octave to the right. The first black… read more
Ron Winston
Ron Winston
Owner of Winston Electronics, Servicing music electronics for over 50 years
486 satisfied customers
Hammond electric organ. Approx 20-25 years old. Mint condition.
Hammond electric organ. Approx 20-25 years old. Mint condition. Yesterday I tried to turn the organ on and a very loud screeching noise appeared that overrode anything the organ was trying to put out.… read more
Pete
Pete
Engineer
Bachelor\u0027s Degree
1,130 satisfied customers
I have recently retired and would like to finally play a Hammond
I have recently retired and would like to finally play a Hammond X-77 Organ that has been sitting in my living room for many years. Can it be reapired?… read more
Steve G.
Steve G.
Engineer
83 satisfied customers
I have a spinet organ that was purchased in 1959 by my parents.
I have a spinet organ that was purchased in 1959 by my parents. It was used fairly often for about 5 years and then very rarely. It sat in my parents immaculate clean living room for show all the year… read more
Tyler, M.M., CAGO
Tyler, M.M., CAGO
Professional Musician
Master's Degree
313 satisfied customers
Hammond organ approx. 55yrs. old. Plays well for service
Hammond organ approx. 55yrs. old. Plays well for service prelude then gradually looses volume. Volume pedal just slides back and forth with no apparent connection. "repair person last year said it was… read more
Daniel
Daniel
Engineer
Bachelor's Degree
54 satisfied customers
I have a Technics sxEX30(L) organ. It has developed a fault
I have a Technics sxEX30(L) organ. It has developed a fault that when I switch it on all the lights come on and then there is a faint click from around the on switch. I can very faintly hear the sound… read more
Rusty
Rusty
Audio Video Technician
Associate Degree
2,070 satisfied customers
I just turned on my Hammond B3, the first time in about 12
I just turned on my Hammond B3, the first time in about 12 years. It did start up (including the leslie), but there's no sound when playing the keys. I'm thinking the reason could be any number of thi… read more
Rusty
Rusty
Audio Video Technician
Associate Degree
2,070 satisfied customers
I have a Korg Le what is the closest combo sound for the rock
I have a Korg Le what is the closest combo sound for the rock and roll Hammond organ sound. Or can i buy it. thanks Phil… read more
MusicTech14
MusicTech14
Bachelor\u0027s Degree
231 satisfied customers
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Disclaimer: Information in questions, answers, and other posts on this site ("Posts") comes from individual users, not JustAnswer; JustAnswer is not responsible for Posts. Posts are for general information, are not intended to substitute for informed professional advice (medical, legal, veterinary, financial, etc.), or to establish a professional-client relationship. The site and services are provided "as is" with no warranty or representations by JustAnswer regarding the qualifications of Experts. To see what credentials have been verified by a third-party service, please click on the "Verified" symbol in some Experts' profiles. JustAnswer is not intended or designed for EMERGENCY questions which should be directed immediately by telephone or in-person to qualified professionals.

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