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Just purchased property and found that the 120V circuit for…

Customer Question
Just purchased property and...

Just purchased property and found that the 120V circuit for lighting and receptacle outlet has a neutral that's connected to the equipment ground. shed has 2 wire w/ground feeder protected by 20 circuit breaker. need to resolve.

Contractor's Assistant: How old is the system in question? And have you consulted an electrician yet?

The two wire feeder is 240Vac for the well pump motor and controller, previous owner not having a neutral used the ground and L1 for 120v can we use a transformer to resolve issue? 240 to 120V ac step down encapsulated transformer or would it be better to trench a new conductor cable for the 120vac? 5 years old

Contractor's Assistant: Do you plan on doing the work yourself?

Yes or use electrician if needed

Contractor's Assistant: Anything else we should know to help you best?

That's it, can we use a transformer or not for this application

Submitted: 4 months ago.Category: Electrical
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12/5/2017
Electrician: George Smith, Master Electrician replied 4 months ago
George Smith
George Smith, Master Electrician
Category: Electrical
Satisfied Customers: 428
Experience: Superintendent at Electrical Solutions and Data
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Thanks for counting on us to help with your electrical issue. My name is ***** ***** I look forward to helping you! Let me review your question!

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
motor load = 7 amps (primary side) of transformer.
lighting and receptacle load on secondary side is 100 Watt light bulb and intermittent use 1500 W space heater at receptacle.
feeder supplying shed is 2 conductor w/grnd direct underground burial cable. (no neutral). But it's been illegally wired to produce 120 by using equipment ground.
Electrician: George Smith, Master Electrician replied 4 months ago

Is there a tap for a neutral and ground!

If not a neutral should be brought in !

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
guess question here is, would it be easier solution to use a transformer or run an additional 120V 2 wire w/gnd cable to supply the 120V. think transformer is easiest cheapest fix but when I use code NEC 2014, looks like i have to use different ocp lower than rated circuit breakers which means I'd have to fuse both sides of xformer, is this correct? and if so maybe it's easier to run another 120v line instead.
Electrician: George Smith, Master Electrician replied 4 months ago

Yes and you need a ground also!

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
Hey George, thank you for the info. No, no neutral, neutral tap, it's a general purpose encapsulated 2 kVA xformer 240/120.
Electrician: George Smith, Master Electrician replied 4 months ago
that is a separate ground rod!
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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
would you recommend finding a xformer w/ neutral tap or just running a new conductor to supply the 120v?
Electrician: George Smith, Master Electrician replied 4 months ago
I would do the xformer!
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Electrician: George Smith, Master Electrician replied 4 months ago
Is your feeder direct burial?
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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
me too but i'm having trouble finding a center tap, or neutral tap.
even if found, wouldn't i then have to 1. resize primary ocp and provide ocp for secondary?
Customer reply replied 4 months ago
direct burial cable #10AWG 2 conductor w/gnd
Electrician: George Smith, Master Electrician replied 4 months ago
You look at Grainger
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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
about 110' from main service panel where ocp for feeder is located, so were looking into options other than digging another trench
Customer reply replied 4 months ago
checking now...
Customer reply replied 4 months ago
no, can't find center tap single phase transformer on grainger for 1.5-2kVA
Customer reply replied 4 months ago
No 1 phase transformers have neutral taps
Electrician: George Smith, Master Electrician replied 4 months ago
Guess it's teaching! How about Square D?
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Electrician: George Smith, Master Electrician replied 4 months ago
Where you locstef?
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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
Plenty of 240/120 transformers, but not finding any with neutral taps, only 3 phase has
Electrician: George Smith, Master Electrician replied 4 months ago
Do you have an electrical supply near by?
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Electrician: George Smith, Master Electrician replied 4 months ago
If you trench I would put the feeder on pipe
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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
zero help. so been looking online
Customer reply replied 4 months ago
here's the transformer i need to use: https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Power_Products_(Electrical)/Power_Transformers/1-Phase_Encapsulated_Transformers_(NEMA_Rated)/480x240_VAC_to_240X120_VAC/C1F1C5LES
Customer reply replied 4 months ago
but there's no neutral, but it produces the 120V we need for lighting and receptacle.
Customer reply replied 4 months ago
where in nec does it state neutral requirements for xformer? i've looked in article 250 but not finding it.
found where to size the ocp for xformer less than 600 volts from table 450.3(b)
Customer reply replied 4 months ago
450, not 250, sorry typo
Electrician: George Smith, Master Electrician replied 4 months ago
I don't have my code book with me right now I'LL looking a little later and get back too you I'm at the eye doctor right now?
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Electrician: George Smith, Master Electrician replied 4 months ago
Look in 240 and 450
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Electrician: George Smith, Master Electrician replied 4 months ago

Did you find it ?

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Electrician: Kevin, Licensed Electrical Contractor replied 4 months ago
Kevin
Kevin, Licensed Electrical Contractor
Category: Electrical
Satisfied Customers: 4,207
Experience: 31 years Licensed Electrical Contractor in Illinois, Adjunct College Electrical Instructor, Former Electrical Inspector, Diploma: Digital Electronics, FCC Technician License
Verified

Hello and welcome to Just Answer. My name is ***** ***** I will be happy to assist you with your electrical question.

1) You don't need a transformer to resolve the problem. Just install a new 4 wire sub-panel feeder circuit comprised of 2 hots, 1 neutral and 1 equipment grounding conductor from the main panel out to the shed. Install a sub-panel at the shed with the respective branch circuit breakers.

2) Transformers are used used to step up or step down voltage.

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Electrician: Kevin, Licensed Electrical Contractor replied 4 months ago

Hello and welcome to Just Answer. My name is ***** ***** I will be happy to assist you with your electrical question.

1) You don't need a transformer to resolve the problem. Just install a new 4 wire sub-panel feeder circuit comprised of 2 hots, 1 neutral and 1 equipment grounding conductor from the main panel out to the shed. Install a sub-panel at the shed with the respective branch circuit breakers.

2) Transformers are used to step up or step down voltage.

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
that was my first option but sine trenching a new line and cable is costly and big job due to distance (~ 120' ). we thought of using a transformer to avoid having to do this.
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Kevin
Kevin
Kevin, Licensed Electrical Contractor
Category: Electrical
Satisfied Customers: 4,207
4,207 Satisfied Customers
Experience: 31 years Licensed Electrical Contractor in Illinois, Adjunct College Electrical Instructor, Former Electrical Inspector, Diploma: Digital Electronics, FCC Technician License

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