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I am replacing a ceiling rose. The old fitting has two live…

Customer Question
I am replacing a ceiling...
I am replacing a ceiling rose. The old fitting has two live and two neutral wires, all coming from the ceiling. The new rose has sockets for only one of each. What do I do? Doubling up doesn't feel right or safe.
Submitted: 7 months ago.Category: Electrical
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7/30/2017
Electrician: Steve G., Electrical Engineer replied 7 months ago
Steve G.
Steve G., Electrical Engineer
Category: Electrical
Satisfied Customers: 17,987
Experience: Spent 20 years as an Electrical Engineer, designing electrical plans and specifications.
Verified

Hi there. My name is Steve.

The ceiling rose should have a terminal strip with AT LEAST two screw terminals for each wire (hot, neutral, earth).

From where did you purchase the new rose?

Let me know.

Steve

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Customer reply replied 7 months ago
From Next. It has three wires going into a small rectangular box and into three terminals. Directly opposite each terminal is a corresponding terminal for the wires coming from the ceiling. But, as I explained, the original ceiling rose (smaller in diameter than the new one, so not re-usable) has eight terminals, with two live and two neutral (red and black) going in from the ceiling. It seems the new rose in incompatible with the original electrics. Unless there is something that can be done - hence my question!
Electrician: Steve G., Electrical Engineer replied 7 months ago

In the original rose, were the two lives connected together?

How about the neutrals?

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Customer reply replied 7 months ago
No, each live went into a separate terminal, as did the neutrals. There is an earth going into it's own anchor point and then two outward terminals, with two wires going off to the bulb.
Electrician: Steve G., Electrical Engineer replied 7 months ago

Ok, the two hot terminals, were they shorted together? And the neutrals?

I'm trying to determine if the lives were connected together and also the neutrals?

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Customer reply replied 7 months ago
No, the pair of lives and the pair of neutrals are physically separate, each going into its own terminal. My problem with the new rose is that there is just a single terminal each for live, neutral and earth. So, should I 'double up' the lives and the neutrals? One thing I did manage to find in a forum was that this was inadvisable.
Electrician: Steve G., Electrical Engineer replied 7 months ago

Ok, all the neutrals can be tied together.

The two lives: one is the live from your consumer unit breaker/fuse. That wire connects to one that goes down to the wall switch. The wire coming back from the wall switch connects to the brown wire of the fitting. If there is an additional live, that goes to the fittings in the next room on the lighting circuit. That needs to be connected to the hot from the consumer unit.

So what you can do is get a small terminal strip from your local DIY store to supplement the one in the rose. This is perfectly acceptable.

Let me know if you are still unclear about the wiring.

Steve

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Customer reply replied 7 months ago
A little unclear. One live goes into the brown terminal on the new rose. The second live should connect to an additional terminal strip? I do actually have a small, two terminal strip I could use. But does anything else go into that additional strip? And how do I identify which live wire is which?
Electrician: Steve G., Electrical Engineer replied 7 months ago

It is hard without diagrams.

With all wires separated, one brown should be live. That is the live from the consumer unit. You would need a voltage tester or meter to determine this.

You then need to determine the two wires going to, and coming back from the switch.

That live brown connects to one of the two wires going down to the switch as well as the live going to the next room - if you have one.

The wire coming back from the switch connects to the brown of the fitting.

The blue (neutral) from the fitting connects to all other blues.

All earths can be tied together.

Let me find a diagram.

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Electrician: Steve G., Electrical Engineer replied 7 months ago

Ok, CLICK HERE for a diagram.

You will see all blues, and all earths are tied together respectively.

The clever part is the browns.

Take a look at it and let me know if you need more help.

Steve

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Steve G.
Steve G.
Steve G., Electrical Engineer
Category: Electrical
Satisfied Customers: 17,987
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Experience: Spent 20 years as an Electrical Engineer, designing electrical plans and specifications.

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