Electrical

Electrical Questions? Ask an Electrician Online.

Ask an Expert,
Get an Answer ASAP!

Electrical

Question. I have a mobile home with a double 50 amp breakers

Customer Question
Question. I have a...
Question. I have a mobile home with a double 50 amp breakers coming in to the main panel. I have 7- 15 amp breakers and 3- 20 amp breakers with one double 30 amp for the ac. i have tested all the circuits and none of the exceed the 20% usage of the circuit they are on when all appliances are on. I would like to add a spa to this panel and they are requiring a 50 amp single phase 230v breaker which with in turn run a sub panel for the spa with a 20 amp breaker and a 30 amp breaker. how do i determine if this will over load me main service?

I understand by the spa company that for 90% of the time the spa will only be using the 20 amp breaker for the heat and circ pump the only time it will rarely use full demand is when its cold out and i have all jets turned on at the same time.

but when its cold out i will not be using the A/C in the house so would this be like a swap in power usage as rarely the two largest power using items in the home will be used at the same time.
Submitted: 8 years ago.Category: Electrical
Show More
Show Less
Ask Your Own Electrical Question
Answered in 7 minutes by:
9/11/2009
Electrician: electrifier, Master Electrician replied 8 years ago
electrifier
electrifier, Master Electrician
Category: Electrical
Satisfied Customers: 1,633
Experience: Electrical contractor and electrical inspector for over 24 years with phone and networking expertise
Verified
Outside of your mobile home where is your service disconnect located and how many amps is it?
Do you have extra space in this box?
Ask Your Own Electrical Question
Customer reply replied 8 years ago
The disconnect is a double 50 amp

yes in the panel i have two open spaces available
Electrician: electrifier, Master Electrician replied 8 years ago
Are you saying this is a 50 amp 2 pole breaker? Is there a 100 amp main breaker anywhere in the panel?
Ask Your Own Electrical Question
Customer reply replied 8 years ago
no its just two 50 amp breakers with a bar in between attaching them. so im assuming its a two pole 50? this is in the main disconnect box on the meeter
Electrician: electrifier, Master Electrician replied 8 years ago
Yes, that is a 2 pole 50 amp breaker.
Can you describe the box with this 50 amp breaker in it?
Does the home plug in with a cord or is it hardwired to this panel?
Ask Your Own Electrical Question
Customer reply replied 8 years ago
the house is plugged into the bottom side of the box
Electrician: electrifier, Master Electrician replied 8 years ago
Ok, this must be an older home then since it plugs into a 50 amp receptacle.
Is there room for more breakers in the box with the 50 amp breaker on the pole?
What is this outside box with the 50 amp breaker rated?
Please answer all 3 of these questions.
Ask Your Own Electrical Question
Customer reply replied 8 years ago
The house is a 1997
yes two extra spots in panel
main connection box is model 2-s-50
120/240/.50amp
Electrician: electrifier, Master Electrician replied 8 years ago
This 1997 mobile home requires a 100 amp service disconnect but it sounds like someone just installed a new home with the old cord.
Where are you located?
Did you buy it this way or have it installed new 12 years ago or so?
Ask Your Own Electrical Question
Customer reply replied 8 years ago
I bought it new. it was installed in an older park. all wiring is new with the home. the cord was installed from the panel by the manufacture . of the home. nothing was changed.
Electrician: electrifier, Master Electrician replied 8 years ago
Where are you located?
Why didn't the park do the proper service upgrade at the time the home went in?
Is the plug in panel a "Boyle Power Outlet" with a 50 amp plug and a 120 volt duplex?
Cords are NOT factory installed. They are installed illegally by dealers to "just get by".
Now you want to install a hot tub and you can't do it. You don't have enough power to do so.
Ask Your Own Electrical Question
Customer reply replied 8 years ago
All the homes in the park are all on the same power. two 50 amp breakers even the new ones being put in currently,   as for the up grade i have no idea. most likely comes down to money.

the plug in the panel has no label. so i dont know if it is a boyel outlet or a 50 amp plug and a 120 volt duplex

so would there be around this? possibly wire in a sub panel one for the mobile home and one to go to the spa? instead of installing another breaker into the house panel?

on the circuit i know there is about 6 homes on this leg for the park.
Electrician: electrifier, Master Electrician replied 8 years ago
It is a code violation to install anything new to the panel in the mobile home. It must be connected to the service panel outside the home.
I once inspected a trailer park like this and they had a fit when I made them do the services correctly. You're right it's all about money. You must connect your hot tub to the panel outside the house. If there is just a single pole breaker available then you can't do it. The plug and cord is only appoved for 50 amps and your tub requires that from what you've said.
Where are you located? Some states have different codes, some cities have their own code. It all depends on where you are located.
Ask Your Own Electrical Question
Customer reply replied 8 years ago
i live in alpine CA

what is the difference between a single pole and a double pole breaker? i do have two 50 amp breakers is that not considered a double pole breaker?

the spa actually gets wired into a sub panel that the spa company provides with a gfi and thin splits the 50 amp into a 20 and 30 amp breaker the spa actually runs 120 volts not 230.
Electrician: electrifier, Master Electrician replied 8 years ago
Your breaker is a double pole breaker, it is not 2 breakers at all.
GFCI protection for a hot tub is very important. These "spa pack" sub panels that get fed with a 50 amp feed, 4 insulated conductors, no cable with bare ground, must go within site of the tub, etc. Your service is not code compliant in the first place. If you contact your local electrical inspector about the problem I'm sure the park will have to bring things into compliance code wise. I can tell it's on older park based on pre 1976 homes when they were 50 amps and cord supplied. Over the years they just haven't ever done any upgrades to anything. I'm sure there is never a building permit to put in a new home in the park, no permits of any kind. now they are so far out of compliance it will take them thousands of dollars to bring everything up to the proper code for what they have. You on the other hand are being screwed by the park because you only have 50 amps available to your site total and you are restricted with what you can do. It's not fair to you in any manner.
electrifier
electrifier, Master Electrician
Category: Electrical
Satisfied Customers: 1,633
Experience: Electrical contractor and electrical inspector for over 24 years with phone and networking expertise
Verified
electrifier and 87 other Electrical Specialists are ready to help you
Ask your own question now
Customer reply replied 8 years ago
Well thin i dont know how they are getting passed i do know the new homes have all passed inspection and were properly permitted as i have talked to the mgr who was in charge of setting the homes. and have seen the inspector out here. I guess its no spa for me. but i dont know how i can run an a/c with a 30/30 when in realty the spa will draw less than the condenser and fan together.

thanks for your help.

Daneil
Electrician: electrifier, Master Electrician replied 8 years ago
Are you in Alpine Oaks?
All I can tell you is the legal way to do your electrical project. If someone installed a sub panel next to the panel on the pedistal and powered the spa from there it would not be associated with the home wiring at all. This could make it work but it could possibly cause other problems down the road in other parts of the electrical system. All an electrician can do is install it by the code using the loads provided by the manufacture when the spa/hot tub is built. We can't do anything else. Lots of things can be cobbled together and they will work but we as licensed contractors can't suggest doing things that way, I could never live with myself if I did that type of thing.
Ask Your Own Electrical Question
Customer reply replied 8 years ago
yes i live in alpine oaks

so if i went the rout of installing a sub panel right off of the main disconnect and connect the house to it and thin the 50 amp breaker needed for the spa and go out from there to the disconnect gfi the spa company provides. will that be to code?
Electrician: electrifier, Master Electrician replied 8 years ago
You could make it just as safe if not safer then you have it now but what you currently have is nowhere close to code compliant. To do the house to code it must have a 4 wire conduit feeder from a 100 amp breaker just for starters. Everything in front of the house must be rated for 100 amps, you don't simply take out the 50 amp breaker and stick in a 100 amp breaker. This would normally have to be done by a licensed electrical contractor as it is not a single family dwelling. It's a commercial mobile home park. Every question you ask will bring up 2 or 3 more questions. This is quite complicated when you get down to it.
I'm in Michigan so I'm not sure of all the legalities of administrative requirements for the code in California. It takes me a bit of investigation to get the answer sometimes but I am resourceful and can get your answer for you.
Ask Your Own Electrical Question
Customer reply replied 8 years ago
I just opened up the the main disconnect and it has 4 feeders into the disconnect box two black one white and one ground. but the breakers are not 100 they are 50. could the wiring be up to code but the just dont have the appropriate breakers in the disconnect box?
Electrician: electrifier, Master Electrician replied 8 years ago
No, for years the requirement has been a 100 amp service for every dwelling. Your mobile home is HUD approved and 100 amps. It requires a hardwired feeder from a 100 amp breaker, not a 50 amp cable that plugs in. It sounds like SD County doesn't pay too close attention to this if everything is inspected that goes into your park. This leaves you as the loser because you can't add electrical devices that should be able to be added if you had the required 100 amp service.
Ask Your Own Electrical Question
Customer reply replied 8 years ago
i went into the parks breaker room were the hole park service comes in and thin goes out. my street is serviced buy a two poll 240 volt 100 amp breaker that leg comes to my home. at my house the disconnect turns into the two pole 50 were the home plugs in
Electrician: electrifier, Master Electrician replied 8 years ago
The whole park must be upgraded. Your home requires a 100 amp service. How many trailers on your 100 amp leg?
Ask Your Own Electrical Question
Customer reply replied 8 years ago
I believe 6
Electrician: electrifier, Master Electrician replied 8 years ago
6 Mobile homes have a 29% demand factor. In other words 6 trailers at 100 amps must be fed with a 174 amp circuit. 6 X 100 X .29 = 174 amps
For the old 50 amp homes it would be 1/2 of 174 amps or 87 amps for the 6 homes.
Ask Your Own Electrical Question
Customer reply replied 8 years ago
is there any law making the owner to upgrade the park?
Electrician: electrifier, Master Electrician replied 8 years ago
In order to install a hud approved house the service must be upgraded. When you increase the load on your "street" the 100 amp feed is not enough. etc etc etc. Yes they can be forced to upgrade IF the local inspectors make them do it. If the locals don't make them you must go to the State of California depending on how the electrical code is written in California. Here in Michigan it would be required quite easily but I don't know about California. I've never seen how the codes are written and adopted there. There are just too many states to learn them all.
Ask Your Own Electrical Question
Ask electrifier Your Own Question
electrifier
electrifier
electrifier, Master Electrician
Category: Electrical
Satisfied Customers: 1,633
1,633 Satisfied Customers
Experience: Electrical contractor and electrical inspector for over 24 years with phone and networking expertise

electrifier is online now

A new question is answered every 9 seconds

How JustAnswer works:

  • Ask an ExpertExperts are full of valuable knowledge and are ready to help with any question. Credentials confirmed by a Fortune 500 verification firm.
  • Get a Professional AnswerVia email, text message, or notification as you wait on our site. Ask follow up questions if you need to.
  • 100% Satisfaction GuaranteeRate the answer you receive.

JustAnswer in the News:

Ask-a-doc Web sites: If you've got a quick question, you can try to get an answer from sites that say they have various specialists on hand to give quick answers... Justanswer.com.
JustAnswer.com...has seen a spike since October in legal questions from readers about layoffs, unemployment and severance.
Web sites like justanswer.com/legal
...leave nothing to chance.
Traffic on JustAnswer rose 14 percent...and had nearly 400,000 page views in 30 days...inquiries related to stress, high blood pressure, drinking and heart pain jumped 33 percent.
Tory Johnson, GMA Workplace Contributor, discusses work-from-home jobs, such as JustAnswer in which verified Experts answer people’s questions.
I will tell you that...the things you have to go through to be an Expert are quite rigorous.

What Customers are Saying:

You did one super job of explaining to me everything there is to know about this fridge. I'm looking forward to asking you questions in the future.

JimmyBagley, IA

Wonderful service, prompt, efficient, and accurate. Couldn't have asked for more. I cannot thank you enough for your help.

Mary C.Freshfield, Liverpool, UK

This expert is wonderful. They truly know what they are talking about, and they actually care about you. They really helped put my nerves at ease. Thank you so much!!!!

AlexLos Angeles, CA

Thank you for all your help. It is nice to know that this service is here for people like myself, who need answers fast and are not sure who to consult.

GPHesperia, CA

I couldn't be more satisfied! This is the site I will always come to when I need a second opinion.

JustinKernersville, NC

Just let me say that this encounter has been entirely professional and most helpful. I liked that I could ask additional questions and get answered in a very short turn around.

EstherWoodstock, NY

Thank you so much for taking your time and knowledge to support my concerns. Not only did you answer my questions, you even took it a step further with replying with more pertinent information I needed to know.

RobinElkton, Maryland

< Previous | Next >

Meet the Experts:

Mike

Mike

Master Electrician

1,426 satisfied customers

Licensed Master Electrician - OnQ Certified Data Voice Audio Video Installer

Jason

Jason

Service Technician

3,942 satisfied customers

Over 20 years of experience in all types of installations, troubleshooting, and repairs.

Mike G.

Mike G.

Master Electrician

7,826 satisfied customers

Proven Professional 48 years Experience

Kevin

Kevin

Licensed Electrical Contractor

3,870 satisfied customers

31 years Licensed Electrical Contractor in Illinois, Adjunct College Electrical Instructor, Former Electrical Inspector, Diploma: Digital Electronics, FCC Technician License

AssuredElectrical

AssuredElectrical

Master Electrician

3,264 satisfied customers

Contractor-42+ Years in the ElectricalTrade

electrifier

electrifier

Master Electrician

1,633 satisfied customers

Electrical contractor and electrical inspector for over 24 years with phone and networking expertise

Rich

Rich

Master Electrician

1,115 satisfied customers

Over 35 years residential, commercial, industrial wiring, install, troubleshoot, service, maintain

< Previous | Next >

Related Electrical Questions
I have a dual outlet wall receptacle with two sets of wires
I have a dual outlet wall receptacle with two sets of wires attached to it. I want to split this receptacle so that one outlet is controlled by a switch and add another unswitched dual outlet "downstream." Is this possible and if so, how should it be wired? Thanks. … read more
Kevin
Kevin
Licensed Electrical Contractor
Diploma
3,870 satisfied customers
I am replacing an electric outlet that has 3 sets of wires,
I am replacing an electric outlet that has 3 sets of wires, 3 white, 3 black, and 3 ground. The tabs between the screws are intact and it is not a switched outlet. 2 white wires are stabbed in the bac… read more
Mike G.
Mike G.
Master Electrician
Vocational, Technical or Trade Scho
7,826 satisfied customers
4 prong outlet for a electric car which wires go where. New
4 prong outlet for a electric car which wires go where … read more
Mike G.
Mike G.
Master Electrician
Vocational, Technical or Trade Scho
7,826 satisfied customers
I am trying to replace an outlet. Red wire backstabbed high.
I am trying to replace an outlet. Red wire backstabbed high. Black wire back stabbed low. Black wire looped to screw low. My new outlet only has screws, no back stabs … read more
Kevin
Kevin
Licensed Electrical Contractor
Diploma
3,870 satisfied customers
Gfci outlet was fried which caused the upstairs outlets in
Ok... so gfci outlet was fried which caused the upstairs outlets in the bathrooms not to work... pulled the old gfci switch, put a new one in, had the white wires on the neutral side and black on the … read more
Mike G.
Mike G.
Master Electrician
Vocational, Technical or Trade Scho
7,826 satisfied customers
Wiring diagram for outlet on a switch the to a light on same
wiring diagram for outlet on a switch the to a light on same switch … read more
David Bowden
David Bowden
Owner
473 satisfied customers
Which wires go where? In replacing a switch and outlet in
Which wires go where? In replacing a switch and outlet in the bathroom I mistakenly didn't label the wires before I ran down to answer the door now I don't know where the three main lead wires into th… read more
Mike G.
Mike G.
Master Electrician
Vocational, Technical or Trade Scho
7,826 satisfied customers
I need to wire a switch and 2 outlets in same box) without
I need to wire a switch and 2 outlets in same box) without the switch controlling the outlets. The switch is for a ceiling light. Thanks. … read more
Eddie
Eddie
Home Improvement Contractor and Repairs
High School or GED
1,051 satisfied customers
A range 4 prong outlet to a 3 wire cord. Today. Does the
yes, does the neutral wire go to t he white or ground? … read more
Mike G.
Mike G.
Master Electrician
Vocational, Technical or Trade Scho
7,826 satisfied customers
Question on wiring GFCI outlet... Late 80's...and no. Outlet
outlet is under the sink...bottom outlet goes to switch on the wall… read more
Sam I
Sam I
Electrician
B.S.
474 satisfied customers
I have a wall outlet that has 220v 3phase in a 3 wire setup.
I have a wall outlet that has 220v 3phase in a 3 wire setup. I need to change it to a 3wire single phase setup … read more
Sam I
Sam I
Electrician
B.S.
474 satisfied customers
Removing old outlet with three wires and a black plus
Removing old outlet with three white wires and a black plus ground. Also has a black and red wire pig tail and black and white oigtail in the box. Outlet connected to light switch … read more
Mike G.
Mike G.
Master Electrician
Vocational, Technical or Trade Scho
7,826 satisfied customers
Wiring a gfci outlet in kitchen (had old normal outlet) and
Wiring a gfci outlet in kitchen (had old normal outlet) and have disposal and over sink light in same box. Power comes into outlet. There are also 3 other lines leaving to other outlets in kitchen. Wa… read more
Mike G.
Mike G.
Master Electrician
Vocational, Technical or Trade Scho
7,826 satisfied customers
I have an outlet that is affecting wiring in other parts of
I have an outlet that is affecting wiring in other parts of the house. When I opened outlet I found two black wires and a white wire, in a wire nut and two bare white wires and a black wire. One whit … read more
Sam I
Sam I
Electrician
B.S.
474 satisfied customers
Wiring garage have 14-3 and 14-2 wire going to outlet and
Wiring garage have 14-3 and 14-2 wire going to outlet and there is no ground how would you hook these up to sub panel… read more
Mike G.
Mike G.
Master Electrician
Vocational, Technical or Trade Scho
7,826 satisfied customers
Need help determining wire size, wire type, and conduit size
Need help determining wire size, wire type, and conduit size for 200amp panel with a 200 amp subpanel. Here is a list of my questions: http://mnjustin.com/diagram.jpg… read more
Mike G.
Mike G.
Master Electrician
Vocational, Technical or Trade Scho
7,826 satisfied customers
My outlet had 2 black wires and a ground, no wire, it
Hi, my outlet had 2 black wires and a ground, no white wire, it connects to the internet when I have one black wire connected to BK and one connected to WH but does not operate the lights at all. … read more
Mike G.
Mike G.
Master Electrician
Vocational, Technical or Trade Scho
7,826 satisfied customers
What size wire is needed to run underground in conduit to a
What size wire is needed to run underground in conduit to a garage about 60 feet from the main connection at the power pole? This would be connected to a subpanel in the garage. … read more
Kevin
Kevin
Licensed Electrical Contractor
Diploma
3,870 satisfied customers
Disclaimer: Information in questions, answers, and other posts on this site ("Posts") comes from individual users, not JustAnswer; JustAnswer is not responsible for Posts. Posts are for general information, are not intended to substitute for informed professional advice (medical, legal, veterinary, financial, etc.), or to establish a professional-client relationship. The site and services are provided "as is" with no warranty or representations by JustAnswer regarding the qualifications of Experts. To see what credentials have been verified by a third-party service, please click on the "Verified" symbol in some Experts' profiles. JustAnswer is not intended or designed for EMERGENCY questions which should be directed immediately by telephone or in-person to qualified professionals.

Disclaimer: Information in questions, answers, and other posts on this site ("Posts") comes from individual users, not JustAnswer; JustAnswer is not responsible for Posts. Posts are for general information, are not intended to substitute for informed professional advice (medical, legal, veterinary, financial, etc.), or to establish a professional-client relationship. The site and services are provided "as is" with no warranty or representations by JustAnswer regarding the qualifications of Experts. To see what credentials have been verified by a third-party service, please click on the "Verified" symbol in some Experts' profiles. JustAnswer is not intended or designed for EMERGENCY questions which should be directed immediately by telephone or in-person to qualified professionals.

Show MoreShow Less

Ask Your Question

x