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Dream Symbolist
Dream Symbolist, Dream Expert
Category: Dream Interpretation
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Experience:  14 yrs. exp. Spiritual Consult. Jr Midwife. Dream Expert
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The one I think came first I was on a cruise ship with

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The one I think came first I was on a cruise ship with family. I was in my room with my sister and we were talking about my ex. I at first had the thought that he got pregnant and had a baby but then my mind said that was impossible and I asked my sister who the baby mom was. She didn't know. Next I was going into another room and as the door was closing my ex was in the hall which then we made eye contact, I felt he was somber. The hallway seemed dark and I could sense he was on the cruise with someone else. I think he was putting shoes on and getting ready to go somewhere. Not sure if I saw shoes.
This was a separate dream afterwards, I'm in a car in my old neighborhood and I'm almost naked getting out of my car. Its night time. My ex is driving away after dropping someone off at another house and as he's driving away he's looking back at me. Im just wondering if he sees that I'm naked and I run into my parent's house.
Submitted: 1 year ago.
Category: Dream Interpretation
Expert:  Dr. Norman Brown replied 1 year ago.

I'm looking forward to dealing with your dreams. But my wife has been hospitalized for a little over 48 hours, so I haven't been able to spend any time online. He's pregnant with new life and you're almost naked--those will be pretty clear for interpreting. I hope I'll have time tomorrow morning; and I will unless my wife's being discharged early.

The symbol of cruise ship is important too. Do you ever go on cruises? Either with a church group or with your family? Is your younger sister consistently your closest relationship in your family?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Prayers for your wifeAnd yes my grandma likes to take us on cruises so I've been on a lot. My sister lives with me and yes she pretty much is
Expert:  Dr. Norman Brown replied 1 year ago.

thank you, ***** ***** can benefit from your prayers. She's not being released today. My intuition about your first dream and second dream together suggests that your unconscious connection with him is still quite strong: If I were you I would feel that his pregnancy symbolizes that he has a new life/relationship potential growing inside of him with his new love interest, and he is somber because he's aware that he's replacing you with her, and that is an Unconscious loss for him AND you--so his waking ego has done his unconscious/largerSelf a disservice, even if his new bonding is a good one for him. Your life was compartmentalized and so was his, and he was still bare-souled with respect to you, though he was in the process of covering his walking-on-path-of-life-gear to "get on with it." Making eye contact symbolizes your mutual moment of conscious awareness that you are separating on your paths-of-life.

In your second dream the symbolism of shoes for the path has grown further and faster into driving in separate cars--where cars separate our egos from each other so that our daily/weekly/monthly trajectories will include ONLY those people needed&incidental for our habitual civilized way-of-life. But unlike Michael, you haven't "clothed yourself" in a new partnership, so you feel how vulnerable you are, and how easily it shows to the partner you wanted to have. (He is still a PERSON in whose eyes you exist as a whole person in need of acceptance&love, that is a witness whose loving gaze helps to define you as a lovable being-in-the-world). Your unconscious reaction to that vulnerability in his eyes is to run back into your parents' house--in search of the shelter you had before entering adulthood--which is continued by sharing your present dwelling with who was once your litter-mate. This unconscious equation is a normal expression of a life- task in young adulthood, which is to graduate from the psychic childhood home through loving and partnering with another person with whom you could start your own family.

You can't be sure that Michael is really ready to start a new life&family with the other woman he grabbed on the rebound. (Because new-love for him might be an addictive substitution for his meth-habit.) But mating for separating from your family-of-origin (which he's not been doing yet) is the ultimate growthstage that your love for him was fueling. (Your dream #1 has projected it onto him.) Your love for him was ignition for a sacred journey into aadulthood and marriage. You just might have shown him so much of that on an unconscious level that he's now unconsciously trying to get it right on his second time around--probably prematurely again for him. But YOU'll get another chance to choose--more appropriately I hope.

Expert:  Dr. Norman Brown replied 1 year ago.

PS The cruise ship contrasts with walking forward on the path of adult life: It's a circular vacation from linear life that you engage in with family on a recurrent basis. No progress in your soul's journey towards the future-promised-land, but regressive renewal that can refresh your mind and heart for another try at the challenging hero journey into adulthood.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I think that all makes sense. In a previous dream we were in a car and I asked him if he was using drugs again and he said he was. I guess that's how I feel about his new relationship which you did point out in your interpretation. I'm hoping all this weird dreaming is helping me to just forgive him and something good comes out of it for myself.
Expert:  Dr. Norman Brown replied 1 year ago.

Go back and read the new paragraph I added to my December interpretation of your dream then. I recopied the whole thing, because it was erased from the record online. I pointed out the deadend of the motionless line of churchgoers at the top of the mountain as indication that that's NOT your path, not paralleling M. Not yearning for love. But embarking on a heroic quest for something that YOU are passionate about--because that sort of risk-path-taking is where the inner calling from God lies. Love may be the most numinous (light-giving/passionate/ spiritual) experience most young people have easy access to, but it's just the first manifestation of God's path for us, in that it lures us away from the comfortable but eventually smothering safety of our family-of-origin (even if it's a more or less healthy family). But it's only the introductory phase of the path of divine calling, which we cannot know in advance. Your individual path need not be Separate from any conventional church-membership; but it won't work to get your "ticket to the mountaintop" from/with Michael.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I THINK I know what you're saying. I've been feeling like there's a much more higher purpose I have, which is helping others. I think my situation with M was just a stepping stone in getting into that place (which is not uncomfortable at all for me, it's more like confirmation). It's too bad though, we would've made a good team but I guess that's not where I'm supposed to be.
Expert:  Dr. Norman Brown replied 1 year ago.

My wife's (of 30 years) path up the mountain has been different than mine, even tho we each happened to be a child in our families that had to distance ourselves from the happy cruise-ship-holidays&reunions that satisfied the other siblings (more or less), each had to pursue a worldly career path that disappointed our controlling samesex parent's expectations, and each has had to work continuously to restructure our own self-image with the tools of psychology and spiritual development. And we weren't ready to meet until she was 33 and 14 years after her first great love and I was 41 and 12 years after my first great love.

It always hurts to love and suffer the ensuing loss. but what I'm trying to show you is how your dreams manifest what your love has opened you up to SEE through the divine lenses of your Higher Source's dream-video-narratives. This valuable vision is NOT what Michael really is, but what your love-light has revealed (via the dreams' projected films) to your dreaming mind's eyes.

Your "good team" image is the "soulmate myth" that Plato expressed. But outside of very narrow-traditional subcultural groups and nonassimilated immigrants only a small minority of "regular urban-Americans" manages to partner with someone with such similar rigidities and flexibilities that the challenges of a lifetime can hone both personalities in compatible ways. Michael's drug addiction would probably fit much better with another addict than with a partner like you without a similar limitation. Your wishful inability to adapt to that incompatibility testifies to a fundamental but little recognized fact of human brains that has shown up in every fMRI of people in love: The sector of the brain is automatically DOWNREGULATED that recognizes that the beloved partner (like other people who are merely friends or even strangers) thinks and feels in many significantly Different and some Incompatible ways from those we unconsciously assume to be humanly natural & homogeneous with our own. This natural blindness of new-love is highly useful for motivating procreation, and it inevitably leads to the splendors of the "soulmate myth" as well as the enduring miseries of long-term marriage.

Expert:  Dr. Norman Brown replied 1 year ago.

PS. In the presexual liberation days the woman typically didn't expect to follow her own passion&spiritual inspiration, but chose the power and passions of motherhood (following those of romance) instead. The biggest best-selling Self-Help Psych book of the 1980s, M. Scott Peck's "The Road Less Traveled," expressed the Jung***** *****festyle of walking the path of God within each individual; but it's never been mainstream-American values. For in place of "The Pursuit of Happiness" its first sentence reads "Life is difficult." And its closing thought is that the ultimate goal of human endeavor is to become "the hands and arms of God on earth."

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I truly believe in that last line which keeps my focus in the right place. Thank you for all your thoughts!
Expert:  Dr. Norman Brown replied 1 year ago.

Please request me whenever you want further discussion or manifest another dream. There's clear evidence of the normal nature of love and of dreams in your dream series, showing that the waking-ego's resolution to "move on" doesn't match the unconscious developments in our bonding. For despite the shortlived relationship and your awareness of the ambivalence on his side, the forces for spiritual growth within YOU responded strongly to what he represented to you--so you know much more consciously now what you are inspired to seek (not "Happiness" as pleasure or motherhood) and not standing in line behind others because that's what everyone does that walks up the mountain on THAT route--but, by process of elimination, taking another path that you need to explore for yourself (at least for now).

PS My wife's passion for and knwledge about the Jungian individuation-with-God path DID (within 5-10 years of our bonding) turn on more lights inside of me (where I'd understood several other branches of psychology better than Jungian and did not claim to know the character of Higher Being except that Love was a key energy). So her intensity brought me towards closer fellow-pilgrimage with her (So soul-mates can be "made" instead of "born," even With the enduring miseries that bruising differences will make.) Now she's reading a very psychic-oriented Bernie Siegel (was a cancer surgeon, became a Jungian oncology-healer-author since 197something) in her hospital room (from Jung's inspiration, he emphasizes visualization with prayer to join in God's miracles), and I'm going to try downloading it so I can read it here. I heard and recorded a 60something man's heartbypass-surgery story who had had a heart attack in the Atlanta Acquarium shark tank: He'd been inadequately anesthetizd for the surgery on Sunday, and in his 3rd "realistic dream-vision" he lay on big round rocks in a darkened cave--then realizing they were the backs of kneeling people who were praying: A year earlier I was in that large Unitarian Church (their faith says that all righthearted paths lead to the mountaintop) when the pastor spoke his name and asked us to pray for him in surgery. So I's seen how clearly prayer works.

Expert:  Dr. Norman Brown replied 1 year ago.

One more comment on a limitation involved with Differences: Jung found that lack of consciousness of how the human heart&mind work & self-centeredness (aka unconsciousness or "underdeveloped spiritual nature")are the main sources of hurting self and others. And if a partner doesn't have moral standards (aka "rule-rigidities") to protect self & others from betrayals (as M can't maintain enough), then the difference-miseries cannot be borne with trust and mutual respect.

Life is not just difficult. It's very serious business.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Thank you and I will. And you've made me feel loads better since I feel like I'm on my right path, it's just gonna take perseverance to forgive him and myself on a daily basis
Expert:  Dr. Norman Brown replied 1 year ago.

What do you need to forgive yourself for? As I understand it, your mistake of loving him and therefore wanting to make a relationship work where he wasn't capable of that has become the chance to realize (through these dreams) what you are seeking in your life. So his companionship was not the right way to go after what your soul needs, but you can now be more consciously aware of what you seek. So you'll need to adjust your moves, in order to find more direct paths to achieve what fulfills you. As my wife experienced when she spent 3 years in a Presbyterian seminary in N. Calif., people with aspirations to the ministery are often experiencing "spirit" the quick way, thru drugs or alcohol--and this "easy way" is what Jung unmasked when he taught Bill W. to build significant steps of his Alcoholics Anonymous program around the need to turn over egotistical powerdrives to an earnest service-connection to Higher Power. It's just as valuable to get a clear indication that you're on a confusing path as it is to discover the right path for you--because both will likely keep on happening throughout your life.

Expert:  Dr. Norman Brown replied 1 year ago.

I'm ;not sure what's troubling you about M, except perhaps not being willing to accept that he's not the shining light you made him out to be. But I think that once you begin your own adjusted life direction(s) your felt need to have a forgiving attitude towards him will not seem hard to achieve. Life's complicated enough without assuming that you must arrive at a correct attitude towards those you've had trouble with in your past. I'm fishing in the dark waters of your unconscious, but I think that once you bring back the "gold" (that is the highly valued personality characteristics) that you've projected onto M. and rediscovered their roots in yourself, you'll have an easier time letting go of his image.

There's a Gestalt therapy (also Jungian) writing exetrcise for working on this: First write short sentences describing each of M's most inspiring and admirable qualities and attitudes on the left side of a piece of paper. Then write the same descriptive sentences about yourself, beginning with "I am" "I care" or whatever. Ponder on how each one of those descriptions does, partially does, or doesn't fit you. Where you feel unable to fill out one or more of those admirable personality aspects, consider what activities you could begin to do more often so you could try them on for size.

An let me know what you've learned by trying this, after a while. (It's actually quite common for a leadership type to WANT to feel his "entourage" projecting their "gold" onto him.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I typed up a quick piece for that exercise. All I see are our similarities and things I wish I could incorporate into my own life which I have done. Thinking about all this had made me realize I'm just angry someone could treat me less than what I feel about myself and I need to forgive MYSELF because I'm angry for letting them. So now I'm feeling much more accepting about the situation. There's nothing wrong with me at all in the sense of what kind of person I am! That's why if no one understands it or not I need to place in my mental state that we can be friends and I won't mind or be as angry because we're all human. Now if this will stick or not I don't know, but so far it makes sense to me.
Expert:  Dr. Norman Brown replied 1 year ago.

Yes, we're all human, but are you sure you want or need to be friends with M? It is usually safer for recovering from the loss of (your) love-project to not keep up the (peer-group definition of) "friendship" until your strong emotions (the basis of "erotic connection") are gone, so you won't keep unconsciously reaching out for his heart, getting response in kind sometimes and getting rebuffed at other times. And also running the risk of noticing his relations with the other woman and being hurt. It's completely normal 4 friendship" to act as a cover for still getting to see and think about him, getting to drink from the fount of good feeling. "Philia" is friendship love, but it's in the same family as "eros." [I don't mean to be preaching, but it's been socially "normal" all my life for exlovers to assume they can & should be "friends." And even social-scientific research does not bear that out, unless the love was neither long nor intense, compared to the experienced friendship. American culture is particularly misleading in handling cross-gender friendship & romantic love.]

Even though this love didn't last a year (I guess, tho I'm not sure how long you admired and "friended" him before you knew you wanted a relationship or delved into body intimacies) your dreams SHOW that you've opened up a strong psychic connection with him that's still there: that's a clear sign of loving. So I understand recovering from such a love like this: 1. You aren't completely healed from the psychic communion until you're able to love someone else as fully or more so. 2. Every time you THINK about him (or talk to him, even on Facebook) it's like you're picking up your psychic telephone line to him, and each telephone-call STRENGTHENS the fibers of your erotic/emotional connection. Sex & love & other emotions all travel that pipeline and nourish the conduit, FOR BETTER AND FOR WORSE. That's why you're reading him (probably pretty accurately) in your dreams. It's even possible that M has glommed onto another unwitting eros-target to unconsciously block out his connection with you, and it hasn't succeeded fully yet. [I've seen a few dreams on JA in my 4 years where the exBF/GF even deputized the newGF/BF to humiliate the dreamer, so s/he'll stop the psychic "visits"]

What I found I needed to do when I was strongly connected to one exlover was this: Imagine my personality was like a mansion with many rooms in it; and in one of those rooms was the woman I'd loved intensely. When I sauntered down the hallways of my mind, I could notice that the door to her room was slightly open--but I knew I could get very engrossed if I even LOOKED inside. So I'd figuratively close the door and walk on by; I'd find something or someone else to focus on, preferably something or someone of interest or beauty.

I was in effect noticing when I was unconsciously about to pick up my psychic telephone, and then consciously putting it back down and redirecting my attention to somewhere else. It took me 5 years to find someone else that I loved as intensely, and with more broadbased interest than her, who I proceeded to marry (I was 41 when that 3rd love began).

Around 2 decades after that I spent a week of self examination for my Psych of Relationships course writing about the types of emotional dynamics involved in how I loved each of my girlfriends, so I reopened the doors to each of those rooms in the mansion of my mind for a series of visits. I also had a few dreams then about remodeling the inside of a little logcabin in a sacred spot in the woods that I included in my 25,000 word document. I'm so glad that still exists on my computer--because I could revisit it and add a bunch more. And I'd probably get embarrassed by the attitude I had 10 years ago when I wrote it. I'm sure my inner self could use some more remodeling by now--you have to get rid of the old furniture before you can put new stuff in.

I have the luxury of a long view, including a long and rich lovelife, before my 30 year marriage. So I'm glad when I might be able to provide some value to you.

Expert:  Dr. Norman Brown replied 1 year ago.

Actually, come to think of it, your anger at both M and yourself are natural reactions to the grief you're experiencing, healthy steps in that process. As long as you keep unconsciously reaching from your heart towards his heart, (aka dialing his number on your psychic telephone) you will feel CUT-OFF, and your anticipatory excitement will turn into disappointment&HURT. For which you are naturally angry at him. You are angry at yourself for "letting him." It's your natural psychic dialup (emotional outreach) that "lets him" hurt you (by doing nothing in response, and by focusing on someone else). I'm not criticizing you, only trying to explain the emotional dynamics of feeling disrespected when your emotionally-valuing outreach is NOT reciprocated. I don't expect you to agree with what I'm teaching, because nobody has ever taught us how to deal with the emotional dynamics of love (whether "friendship-love" or "romantic"). I'm in my 25th year of applying the perspective of emotional dynamics, esp of the inborn emotional family of "shame," which appears as guilt, hurt, shyness, embarrassment, disappointment, humiliation, etc. and is triggered when (anticipated or experienced) Excitement or Joy are interrupted (such as by M's nonresponse) but you STILL want E&J (with/from M). So blaming yourself and blaming someone else are bound to happen during love-loss grief. There's NO WRONG way to experience an emotion--but you can value what they show you (that you still want the excite4ment&joy you've had with M) and be thankful that emotions also naturally keep on flowing onward like the river of conscious life.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Everything you are saying makes sense and I'm really ready to stop this whole thing so I'll try what you did with the whole dropping the psychic telephone thing. One thing that rang true was the part about him deputizing the new g/f lol. It's funny because I had a dream about 2 days ago where I was in a library and she was there on the floor reading and I was just being friendly and smiling at her but she looked slightly annoyed like she knew who I was, got up and left. Next thing M comes out and places in my hand a crumbled up note. I opened it and it was from me but I'm not even sure what it said. All the while his new gf is standing behind him with a smug look on her face. It was kind of humiliating but I didn't think too much on it.

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