Dog Training

Have Dog Training Questions? Ask a Dog Trainer.

Ask an Expert,
Get an Answer ASAP!

Dog Training

I have a problem with my 14month old border collie x kelpie

Customer Question
Hello, I have a problem with...
Hello,
I have a problem with my 14month old border collie x kelpie rescue, who is a lovely, well mannered female, and my 10 week old bernese mountain puppy.
They get along perfectly - playing, sleeping, etc, until food is involved, or they are playing, and all of a sudden the older dog turns on the puppy and becomes vicious.
I separate them at mealtime and prepare it away from them, but the older dog knows what I am doing and will attack the puppy even if they are not near me. She will also become aggressive occasionally when they are playing.
When this happens I put the puppy into a safe area, then get the border collie to sit, then lie down, and she calms down usually immediately. She also becomes good with the puppy almost immediately, although I usually leave her alone for a few minutes. I am concerned for both if them.
Any thoughts?
thanks
shelagh
Submitted: 1 year ago.Category: Dog Training
Show More
Show Less
Ask Your Own Dog Training Question
Answered in 2 minutes by:
7/14/2016
Dog Trainer: Jane Lefler, Animal Behaviorist replied 1 year ago
Jane Lefler
Jane Lefler, Animal Behaviorist
Category: Dog Training
Satisfied Customers: 19,903
Experience: Behaviorist /Trainer and Dog breeder 18+ years
Verified

Hi JaCustomer,

My name is ***** ***** I’ve been involved professionally with dogs in the health and behavioral fields for over 18 years. It will be my pleasure to work with you today.

In order to supply you with an informed answer, it is necessary for me to collect some additional information from you. When I receive your response or reply, it will likely take me between 30-45 minutes to type up my reply if I am still online when I receive notice that you replied. I hope you can be patient.

Is she drawing blood from the puppy?

Ask Your Own Dog Training Question
Customer reply replied 1 year ago
no she is not drawing any blood
Customer reply replied 1 year ago
when they are playing she just turns aggressive in a second and without warning
Customer reply replied 1 year ago
are you there?
Dog Trainer: Jane Lefler, Animal Behaviorist replied 1 year ago

OK. I'm typing up your reply now. It will take about 20 minutes to type up.

Ask Your Own Dog Training Question
Customer reply replied 1 year ago
Also, as I am trying to potty train the puppy, it is impossible to use a food reward due to the food issues with Kate (the border x).
Dog Trainer: Jane Lefler, Animal Behaviorist replied 1 year ago

What you are seeing is all perfectly normal. The older dog may be a little rougher than if she was just a little older, but what you are seeing is exactly what older dogs are supposed to do.

Dogs teach puppies manners and the way they do that is to growl when a pup is doing something it shouldn't do like approach their food, etc, and when a pup fails to listen to the warning, they lunge sounding ferocious and usually will even snap their teeth together. They might even nip but usually do not do any real harm to the puppy. It is more of a scare tactic toward the puppy. All dogs will usually do this with puppies.

Often they will allow play behavior and rough housing but if a pup should bite too hard, they will turn and reprimand the pup with the growl, lunge or ferocious behavior. This is in the pup's best interest. A dog in the same household is going to be much gentler with them than a strange dog would be. In additon, pups get away with anything when with their mom and then around 4=6 weeks she starts teaching them not to bite hard and what some acceptable behavior is. However, they leave mom and still believe they can approach all dogs like they did their mom and can bite ears, scratch stomachs and even try and nurse off of them in some cases. So adult dogs reprimand unacceptable behavior but they do take age into account. Most will give a puppy lots of leeway in behavior but each successive day, that lessens and lessens as the pup has to learn acceptable manners around adult dogs.

So as long as blood isn't being drawn, it should be fine. Now if the pup is also female, you might with to get her spayed before her first heat cycle. The current adult might feel her place in the household as the top dog might be threatened and then you will see some aggression and more serious reprimands that might indeed draw blood. Spaying will help reduce the chance of that occurring.

You shouldn't have much of a problem with a male since there can be both a female and male boss and he'll likely see her as the main dog since he was raised around her.

You can help teach the pup as well by going ahead and starting obedience training. Obedience training will allow you to call him to you if you see him starting to do things to annoy the older dog. It will also keep him occupied for longer periods of time and give her a break from constantly reprimanding him for unacceptable behavior.

Structured classes are great, but you can do structured training at home long before a dog is able to be out in public around other dogs. The following site is helpful in helping owners train their dog. Be sure and click on the link to the page on obedience at the bottom. and links on subsequent pages leading to detailed instructions.

http://www.schutzhund-training.com/training_theory.html

Training works best if you train at least 30 minutes a day (two 15 minute sessions). I would start making your dog work via the Nothing in life is free program (NILF). It is outlined below.

http://www.pets.ca/articles/article-dog_nilf.htm

http://www.humanesociety.org/animals/dogs/tips/training_nothing_in_life_is_free.html

It also sounds like Kate could use some refresher obedience training as well. You should feed Kate first and then the pup. Once both have some training done and are listening pretty well, you can feed them in the same room. However, start by isolating the pup, then fixing the food, and put Kate's down first before taking the puppy's food to him/her. Once you try together, keep a leash on the aggressor and slip it under your foot so Kate can't attack the pup. GIve her just enough room to eat her food and be sure the pup's bowl is across the room. I've had some owners put an eye bolt in the floor on one side near a wall so they can clip a dog's leash to it to hold them in one area of the house. However, even using these types of restraints, you need to be standing in the middle and if either dog moves toward the other for any reason, give a really low toned "NO" so both dog's know it is unacceptable. Eventually you have to remove the restraint but if you have keeping up on the obedience work, you should be able to have them lay down or sit in front of their bowls and stay even if they want to move toward the other one.

Obedience training can also show the older dog more attention and stop some of the jealousy issues we see from an owner spending so much time with a new puppy. We all do it since pups need so much care, older dogs can feel left out and will take that out on the puppy. So start obedience training with them and let Kate continue to help the pup learn manners, but if it gets out of hand, let me know and we will work on some other techniques. I do believe that obedience training will help a lot and prevent worse problems from developing as the pup matures.

I hope this information is helpful to you. If you would like any additional information or have more questions please don’t hesitate to press the reply to expert or continue conversation button so I can address any issues you still have . If you do find this helpful, please take this opportunity to rate my answer positively so I am compensated for my time.

Ask Your Own Dog Training Question
Customer reply replied 1 year ago
Thank you for your advice, but this is not normal dog playing. They constantly play and rough house. I know the difference between playing and attacking. When they are playing and the puppy is annoying the older dog, they sort it out and it may be a little nip or growl. All normal. When Kate Turns on the puppy it is vicious and she intends to hurt her. Her look changes and her body language changes. It is not normal or safe for the puppy. If left, there would be blood for sure. As Kate is a rescue, we do not know what has happened to her, but she came to us very shy and afraid of strangers, but know is a much loved part of the family who is adored by us all, but we are strict with obedience and manners. We have had several dogs before and never had this problem, and this is our first rescue.
Dog Trainer: Jane Lefler, Animal Behaviorist replied 1 year ago

From your description it does sound like relatively normal behavior but you are actually seeing it so let me give you some other techniques. Start strict obedience training with Kate. Keep a leash on her when she is with the pup, but if you can not keep a good eye on them, put a muzzle on her. It needs to be a basket style muzzle so she can still breath relatively normal and even drink and eat to a limited extent.

Additional training can also help. Kate should be leashed and if she even looks at the puppy, a correction should be done. Any sign of aggression including a prolonged look, hair raised on the shoulders, a growl or even a stiff legged walk, should be corrected. A correction is a quick tug of the leash and a firm low toned "NO". Once you have done this couple of times, you should notice her ignoring the pup. When that happens, you will want to reward her for the desired behavior. Again, use tasty treats like the hot dog slices. This teaches the dogs that you WILL not tolerate fighting in YOUR pack.

Of course, you have to establish yourself as the boss with the obedience training as well. The pup won't learn puppy manners as quickly this way and there won't be much playing since you have to discourage her from attacking the pup and the only effective way of doing this is to discourage interaction. There really isn't a way of only stopping the one behavior since it is irratic in nature.

Now it might not be quite as irratic a believed. She may be giving some clues with body language that might help you see when she starts getting into that mood. Read more on body language here:

https://apdt.com/pet-owners/dog-park/body-language/

http://www.pawsacrossamerica.com/interpret.html

http://www.petprofessionalguild.com/dogbodylanguage

It won't be long before your pup is pretty big and she won't be able to be assured of coming out on top of a fight situation so that should calm her if it is strictly behavioral.

Since you do think this is a more serious issue, then it might be medical since it is sudden aggression. Conditions such as hypothyroidism can cause sudden aggression. You can read more on medical cause of sudden aggression here:

http://www.petplace.com/dogs/medical-causes-of-aggression-in-dogs/page1.aspx

http://www.tropicaldogtraining.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Dodman_MA10.pdf

http://c.ymcdn.com/sites/www.michvma.org/resource/resmgr/MVC_Proceedings_2015/horwitz_02.pdf

Hypothyroidism is a common problem in some dogs as they age, so it is worth investigating.

Ask Your Own Dog Training Question
Customer reply replied 1 year ago
Thanks again, but it is not like they can't be together. Kate loves the puppy and runs to her if she is crying or if she yelps when she is hurt. They are very close. I do all of the feeding techniques that you advised and can control that. Kate is well socialised and is great at the dog park, off leash, and won't eat until she is given the command. I think I will have to get someone to help me in person.
Dog Trainer: Jane Lefler, Animal Behaviorist replied 1 year ago

Here are some great people that should be able to help.

http://www.apdt.com.au/trainers-directory/trainers-directory/963-animal_behaviourist.html

They can see the exact behavior you are seeing and advise you. Definitely get her checked for thyroid issues since that might explain a sudden aggression issue for no reason.

Ask Your Own Dog Training Question
Ask Jane Lefler Your Own Question
Jane Lefler
Jane Lefler
Jane Lefler, Animal Behaviorist
Category: Dog Training
Satisfied Customers: 19,903
19,903 Satisfied Customers
Experience: Behaviorist /Trainer and Dog breeder 18+ years

Jane Lefler is online now

A new question is answered every 9 seconds

How JustAnswer works:

  • Ask an ExpertExperts are full of valuable knowledge and are ready to help with any question. Credentials confirmed by a Fortune 500 verification firm.
  • Get a Professional AnswerVia email, text message, or notification as you wait on our site. Ask follow up questions if you need to.
  • 100% Satisfaction GuaranteeRate the answer you receive.

JustAnswer in the News:

Ask-a-doc Web sites: If you've got a quick question, you can try to get an answer from sites that say they have various specialists on hand to give quick answers... Justanswer.com.
JustAnswer.com...has seen a spike since October in legal questions from readers about layoffs, unemployment and severance.
Web sites like justanswer.com/legal
...leave nothing to chance.
Traffic on JustAnswer rose 14 percent...and had nearly 400,000 page views in 30 days...inquiries related to stress, high blood pressure, drinking and heart pain jumped 33 percent.
Tory Johnson, GMA Workplace Contributor, discusses work-from-home jobs, such as JustAnswer in which verified Experts answer people’s questions.
I will tell you that...the things you have to go through to be an Expert are quite rigorous.

What Customers are Saying:

I must tell you I found this site by accident and was amazed when I asked a question of the Veteranians online. I wish I could have found it sooner it could have made such a difference in the outcome of my pet's surgery. However, I am passing along the information to my sister-in-law (a cat-rescue person who is also a nurse), and perhaps it will help someone else who may experience the same problem. The doctor who answered my question was amazing, and while it didn't come it time to change the outcome of my situation, it is reassuring to know the caliber of Vets/Doctors that you have at JustAnswer. Thank you for being there.

Alice H.Jacksonville, Fl.

Wonderful service, prompt, efficient, and accurate. Couldn't have asked for more. I cannot thank you enough for your help.

Mary C.Freshfield, Liverpool, UK

This expert is wonderful. They truly know what they are talking about, and they actually care about you. They really helped put my nerves at ease. Thank you so much!!!!

AlexLos Angeles, CA

Thank you for all your help. It is nice to know that this service is here for people like myself, who need answers fast and are not sure who to consult.

GPHesperia, CA

I couldn't be more satisfied! This is the site I will always come to when I need a second opinion.

JustinKernersville, NC

Just let me say that this encounter has been entirely professional and most helpful. I liked that I could ask additional questions and get answered in a very short turn around.

EstherWoodstock, NY

Thank you so much for taking your time and knowledge to support my concerns. Not only did you answer my questions, you even took it a step further with replying with more pertinent information I needed to know.

RobinElkton, Maryland

< Previous | Next >

Meet the Experts:

Pawsitivtrainr

Pawsitivtrainr

Dog Trainer

145 satisfied customers

35+ years Training Dogs

agilityaddict

agilityaddict

Pet Trainer

92 satisfied customers

20 years experience training dogs in obedience and agility, current 4-H agility superintendent

Dr. Deb

Dr. Deb

Veterinarian

80 satisfied customers

I have been a breeder and owner of dogs for over 40 years.

Dr. Bruce

Dr. Bruce

Veterinarian

56 satisfied customers

15 years experience as a veterinarian dealing with dogs.

Anna

Anna

Pet Trainer

52 satisfied customers

40 yrs. training pet dogs and performance dogs in obedience, agility, herding, tracking, and therapy.

Jane Lefler

Jane Lefler

Animal Behaviorist

19,903 satisfied customers

Behaviorist /Trainer and Dog breeder 18+ years

Sally G.

Sally G.

Animal Behaviorist

1,366 satisfied customers

Service /assistance dog trainer,Therapy dog evaluator and trainer, AKC evaluator, pet first aide and member of PAS Animal Response Team.

< Previous | Next >

Related Dog Training Questions
I have a 9 year old Rottie who has been housebroken for
I have a 9 year old Rottie who has been housebroken for years. Recently she has started pooping in the house. I let her out frequently and after every meal, but when she returns to the house or during… read more
Sally G.
Sally G.
Animal Behaviorist
High School or GED
1,366 satisfied customers
My puppy is afraid of large trucks like FedEx and traffic
My puppy is afraid of large trucks like FedEx and traffic sounds and will not go out to relieve himself. How can I help him overcome this? … read more
Jane Lefler
Jane Lefler
Animal Behaviorist
19,903 satisfied customers
He is a 2 year old neutered male and just recently attacked
He is a 2 year old neutered male and just recently attacked a neighbourhood spayed female twice. We had just come back from a walk. I live in a rural area and he just took off and went after her. He d… read more
Jane Lefler
Jane Lefler
Animal Behaviorist
19,903 satisfied customers
He is a male healer and part lab anytime he is around the
he is a male healer and part lab anytime he is around the other healer in house or other dogs out side he charges at definily fights with other healer i cant just get rid of him cause he is my dog … read more
Jane Lefler
Jane Lefler
Animal Behaviorist
19,903 satisfied customers
Our 3 year old was house trained, but about 6 months ago she
Our 3 year old was house trained, but about 6 months ago she began wetting the floor whenever someone comes into the house and she gets excited. … read more
Rebecca
Rebecca
Veterinarian
Doctoral Degree
438 satisfied customers
My dog has always been aggressive to other dogs and people i
My dog has always been aggressive to other dogs and people i walk her on long lead but is getting to stronge for me i cant rehome her should i have her put to sleep she is 4 years only now … read more
PitRottMommy
PitRottMommy
Veterinary Nurse
Associate Degree
8,601 satisfied customers
I'm wondering if you have any tips for my puppy Callie. She
Hi Jane, I'm wondering if you have any tips for my puppy Callie. She is almost 8 months old and was spayed at the end of September. She has been a joy to train. Her mother was part Labrador Retreiver … read more
Jane Lefler
Jane Lefler
Animal Behaviorist
19,903 satisfied customers
My two dogs got into a 4oz can of 3&1oil I am sure they ate
My two dogs got into a 4oz can of 3&1oil I am sure they ate some but most on the recliner.That was 2 hrs ago now they both through up and the one is shaking a little … read more
Jane Lefler
Jane Lefler
Animal Behaviorist
19,903 satisfied customers
My 5 month old puppy always gets super excited when she
My 5 month old puppy always gets super excited when she passes by people and other dogs while taking a walk. She will pull leash and jump up and down like crazy. Some people/dogs/dog owners don't real… read more
Sally G.
Sally G.
Animal Behaviorist
High School or GED
1,366 satisfied customers
Our 16month old puppy has been trained to use a doggie door
Hi our 16month old puppy has been trained to use a doggie door to a side yard with pet grass all of the sudden he will not use the door and when we put him on a leash to take him to the side yard he w… read more
Sally G.
Sally G.
Animal Behaviorist
High School or GED
1,366 satisfied customers
We have a Silky Terrier that we got from a rescue. She lived
We have a Silky Terrier that we got from a rescue. She lived in a kennel for five years and did not have any socialization with humans. She has made a lot of progress since we got her in April, but we… read more
PitRottMommy
PitRottMommy
Veterinary Nurse
Associate Degree
8,601 satisfied customers
All the sudden my puppy went into her crate and peed. She
All the sudden my puppy went into her crate and peed. She went outside not long ago. She has been doing good on house training. No accident in the house for a long time. Why does this behavior mean?Th… read more
Jane Lefler
Jane Lefler
Animal Behaviorist
19,903 satisfied customers
My daughter lives in a apartment and just got a 12 week old
My daughter lives in a apartment and just got a 12 week old Frenchton to give her 1 year old Frenchie a playmate. This puppy is supper outgoing. Loves everyone and isn't afraid of other dogs. She has … read more
Sally G.
Sally G.
Animal Behaviorist
High School or GED
1,366 satisfied customers
I have three animals that I cannot get to sleep at night
I have three animals that I cannot get to sleep at night what can I do to help them sleep … read more
PitRottMommy
PitRottMommy
Veterinary Nurse
Associate Degree
8,601 satisfied customers
I have a Ridgie who is aggressive when people show up. If I
I have a Ridgie who is aggressive when people show up. If I have him on the leash he is good and listens. If I were describe his temperament then I would say shy, not confident, claustrophobic, sensit… read more
Sally G.
Sally G.
Animal Behaviorist
High School or GED
1,366 satisfied customers
My boss adopted a 2 yr old black lab about a week ago. He'
My boss adopted a 2 yr old black lab about a week ago. He' around 86 lbs. … read more
Jane Lefler
Jane Lefler
Animal Behaviorist
19,903 satisfied customers
I have an 11 year old beagle that has always struggled with
Hi, I have an 11 year old beagle that has always struggled with demanding barking. He barks at me when he wants his dinner, water, kong, if I'm upstairs and he wants me to come downstairs. I had it so… read more
Jane Lefler
Jane Lefler
Animal Behaviorist
19,903 satisfied customers
She is suddenly afraid of my husband. He was the one she
she is suddenly afraid of my husband. He was the one she would always go to first. Slept with him, was all about him, It's killing him. she about 12 yrs old. … read more
Jane Lefler
Jane Lefler
Animal Behaviorist
19,903 satisfied customers
Disclaimer: Information in questions, answers, and other posts on this site ("Posts") comes from individual users, not JustAnswer; JustAnswer is not responsible for Posts. Posts are for general information, are not intended to substitute for informed professional advice (medical, legal, veterinary, financial, etc.), or to establish a professional-client relationship. The site and services are provided "as is" with no warranty or representations by JustAnswer regarding the qualifications of Experts. To see what credentials have been verified by a third-party service, please click on the "Verified" symbol in some Experts' profiles. JustAnswer is not intended or designed for EMERGENCY questions which should be directed immediately by telephone or in-person to qualified professionals.

Disclaimer: Information in questions, answers, and other posts on this site ("Posts") comes from individual users, not JustAnswer; JustAnswer is not responsible for Posts. Posts are for general information, are not intended to substitute for informed professional advice (medical, legal, veterinary, financial, etc.), or to establish a professional-client relationship. The site and services are provided "as is" with no warranty or representations by JustAnswer regarding the qualifications of Experts. To see what credentials have been verified by a third-party service, please click on the "Verified" symbol in some Experts' profiles. JustAnswer is not intended or designed for EMERGENCY questions which should be directed immediately by telephone or in-person to qualified professionals.

Show MoreShow Less

Ask Your Question

x