How JustAnswer Works:
  • Ask an Expert
    Experts are full of valuable knowledge and are ready to help with any question. Credentials confirmed by a Fortune 500 verification firm.
  • Get a Professional Answer
    Via email, text message, or notification as you wait on our site. Ask follow up questions if you need to.
  • 100% Satisfaction Guarantee
    Rate the answer you receive.
Ask eric remington Your Own Question
eric remington
eric remington,
Category: Dodge
Satisfied Customers: 275
Experience:  mechanic/service advisor at topline auto
95415974
Type Your Dodge Question Here...
eric remington is online now
A new question is answered every 9 seconds

2010 charger 3.5 fails to crank at times.

This answer was rated:

2010 charger 3.5 fails to crank at times.
Customer: replied 1 month ago.
Replaced battery. Replaced starter. Replaced starter relay.
Customer: replied 1 month ago.
When vehicle fails to crank a click is heard at starter.

Hello my name is ***** ***** welcome to just answers! I will be assisting you with all of your vehicle questions today. Give me one moment while I review your question and come back with a answer. Please be aware I do not know your skill level or abilities so I will be asking a lot of questions and in a lot of cases we will respond to each other quite a lot before we find a solution. As far as phone calls are concerned that is the system prompting you, not me, and they do cost more money, I prefer text but in some cases a phone call is required. If I don’t answer right away or quickly in conversation I am helping another customer or have stepped out for a moment and will respond as soon as I can. Ok lets get started!

have you checked your starter signal at starter with voltmeter to see if your getting signal and how much?

Customer: replied 1 month ago.
battery voltage. Checked resistance and wire was good. I can jump it at the relay and it will always crank and never fails to crank. Only does it if I crank from ignition.

when you start are you getting good signal and ground at the relay?

Customer: replied 1 month ago.
good ground signal from pcm and relay will click allowing solenoid to engage. This signal is alway present and solenoid is always heard from starter.
Customer: replied 1 month ago.
I attempted to provide a constant ground too to relay but got the same results.

sounds like once its connected is when your having the issues, may be a connector issue at the relay, is this a vehicle effected by salt ?

Customer: replied 1 month ago.
I have bypassed every ground and power circuits at relay with same results. I even isoled circuits and bypassed fuse box and had and external relay. No dice. Same results.
Customer: replied 1 month ago.
No, I'm in so paso. No salt used here. Vehicle is clean. I started having issues with it a month ago and progressively it's gotten worse.
Customer: replied 1 month ago.
I find it weird I can start the vehicle all the time every time with key on and jumping the relay.
Customer: replied 1 month ago.
But if i attempt to crank from ignition sometimes it starts sometimes starter just clicks.

so it has to be a bad relay even though its new,

Customer: replied 1 month ago.
I bought a new relay. And have switched with a similar one in fuse box. I've used other relays and get same results.
Customer: replied 1 month ago.
I figured it was the box. But I have bypassed it and added a relay with same results.

so not the relay, possible connectors at the relay or maybe a issue in the signal wire, there is a changeover from the yellow/gray to green/yellow signal wire, it says its somewhere in the harness at the right front inner fenderwell

Customer: replied 1 month ago.
I've provided a constant ground to relay from battery ground bypassing pcm. Same results. I figured this would tell me if ground from pick was bad.
Customer: replied 1 month ago.
Pcm

what was the measured ground when the signal was sent? I have a strong feeling though you have a loose connector somewhere

Customer: replied 1 month ago.
Starter solenoid never fails to engage when attempting to crank. I figure the sig
Customer: replied 1 month ago.
I haven't tested that with my meter. I just had a test light connected and I would get a green light for ground.with relay disconnected.
Customer: replied 1 month ago.
I would also get a red signal power from the power side of the coil when cranking.
Customer: replied 1 month ago.
I think I have a voltage drop somewhere on the control side. Or I'm missing something here.

I would recheck everything with a volt meter and yes it sounds like you have a voltage dropout

Customer: replied 1 month ago.
Do you have wiring diagrams?

this is the best I could come up with, file transfer is not easy

Customer: replied 1 month ago.
based on the diagram. If enough voltage is flowing through the starter control wire to engage the starter solenoid should it be able to close the internal switch to allow current to flow to the starter motor?Just trying to narrow my search to testing at the fuse box or the starter.
Customer: replied 1 month ago.
But don't you think that if the starter solenoid engages all the time that it would be a fault at the starter or ground.

you saifd you only have the problem when you remove the relay out of the problem right?

Customer: replied 1 month ago.
Relay in and turning key over to crank will sometimes crank an d sometimes won't. But the starter solenoid will alway engage it just won't crank sometimes.If I remove the relay cover and manually engage relay it will always crank the starter and if key is on always start car with no problems.

so when it wont start your saying the starter is always engaged, so its turning over always but just not starting always?

Customer: replied 1 month ago.
Starter solenoid is always engaged upon turning the key. When it fails to crank I can heat the relay click and starter solenoid click. But it won't turn engine over.

so you have a voltage drop somewhere

Customer: replied 1 month ago.
You'd think. But then why if I power the relay at the fuse box will it always crank and start.

I was thinking the relay connectors themselves

Customer: replied 1 month ago.
Well, when I bypassed the fuse box and added an external relay with all circuits going to the new relay that should have taken care of it.
Customer: replied 1 month ago.
Okay car will not crank at all now. Here are my meter readings at relay. 30-6.2v, 86-no ground, 85-12.5v, 86-0v. Reasons taken attempting to crank at ignition.

Have you performed a voltage drop test of battery cables?

Customer: replied 1 month ago.
from battery to starter. Test was good.

and negative cable?

have you checked the bcm and antitheft system for codes

ok you hear it click..... can you reproduce the click no start and have your volt meter handy?

what is voltage drop on battery cableS

Customer: replied 1 month ago.
I have no codes. The car will crank and start every other turn of the ignition. When it doesn't crank all you hear is a click from the starter.
Customer: replied 1 month ago.
I have my voltmeter handy

results of voltage drops First then hook up volt meter to solenoid wire at starter and let me know what voltage reads when it just clicks. A either you have a battery cable issue B you have a insufficient voltage to solenoid wire C defective other starter...If it clicks everytime when it does not start...make sense? Please rate me as my compensation depends on it

how often does it not start?

Customer: replied 1 month ago.
Well as of this morning it will not crank at all just click. I can get it to start by closing the contacts on the starter solenoid and ignition on all the time. But if i try starting from the ignition I just get a click from the starter solenoid.

ok what is voltage reading normally? go check

ok check the voltage at the starter solenoid when you crank it and do voltage drop tests...let me know results

voltage reading at ground side of neg batt cable is? voltage reading at positive battery cable at starter is ? voltage reading at starter solenoid wire while engine is cranked from inside with nothing else hooked up is?

Customer: replied 1 month ago.
Okay at starter solenoid voltage was .72v when turning key and clicking. Voltage drop at positive side of starter .142v starter case .059v
Customer: replied 1 month ago.
Okay update. I moved my leads to check power at relay on terminal that supplies power to starter solenoid. Voltage there was about the same as at starter solenoid less than a volt. At one point it cranked and started. Voltage at that time was 9.4v
Customer: replied 1 month ago.
Last test of the night. I checked voltage again at terminal 87 of relay while attempting to crank .79v. Checked voltage at terminal 30 12.4v while attempting to crank. So I assumed there was something wrong with the starter wire from relay. Disconnected wire from starter solenoid to relay and added my own wire from relay terminal 87 to starter solenoid. Same results just a click and voltage still reads less than a volt. If I disconnect wire from solenoid at starter I get 12.4v disconnected while attempting to crank on wire.

so the input ground to relay is that a good connection

Customer: replied 1 month ago.
I get a ground when attempting to crank. Relay always clicks.
Customer: replied 1 month ago.
These are the same reading I had when all circuits were going into fuse box. I have rerouted circuits to an external relay and still get the same readings.

I want you take measurements of the voltages to the relay connector when the relay is still hooked up, under a load and tell me what terminal 30 is for example...ok?

Customer: replied 1 month ago.
The voltage readings are taken with the relay in place. I'm using a relay voltage tester that I can connect leads without interrupting the circuit. Reading are the ones I sent you yesterday.

ok the problem is at 30 6.2 volts not enough...we need to trace that wire back do you need a schematic or do you want me to find it what color is the wire on relay terminal 30?

Customer: replied 1 month ago.
30 has 12.5v terminal 87 at relay has .79v. You think the problem is at terminal 30?

earlier you had 6.2 at 30

so which is it

Customer: replied 1 month ago.
Okay I was using a power probe to take readings at first. When you can in the pic I had acquired a volt meter which I trust more.
Customer: replied 1 month ago.
This is the most accurate info. I retested circuits again today got the same results.I checked voltage again at terminal 87 of relay while attempting to crank .79v. Checked voltage at terminal 30 12.4v while attempting to crank. So I assumed there was something wrong with the starter wire from relay. Disconnected wire from starter solenoid to relay and added my own wire from relay terminal 87 to starter solenoid. Same results just a click and voltage still reads less than a volt. If I disconnect wire from solenoid at starter I get 12.4v disconnected while attempting to crank on wire.

12.4 volts but you may not have enough amps.....that is why you always check under load. the other day you only had 6.2 volts. have someone crank it and tell me what you get at 30 when everything is hooked up...under a load. yes voltage readings can be misleading......ohms law....if you have too much resistance not enough amps

no you d ont want to check with it disconnected or else you will b e thrown a curve ball

lets see if that 6.2 volts comes back because that ias a problem and car will not start if you only have 6.2 volts there....make sense?

Customer: replied 1 month ago.
Alright, here are my voltage measurements. Terminal 30 under load 11.7v. Terminal 85 under load 7.72v. Terminal 87 under load a range of .79-2.1v. Terminal 86 under load 4.7v.
Customer: replied 1 month ago.
I removed the bypass circuits to the external relay and put everything back to normal. Just wanted to make sure I was giving you readings from its original state.

I​ wonder how many amps starter is drawing...do you have a way of checking

you have replaced relay

its probably the starter not drawing any amps or its drawing a lot....if you put 12 volts to strarter solenoid car starts correct? I'm sorry Ive been workin on other cars too so I forgot all the detail of your unique scenario

Customer: replied 1 month ago.
replaced relay and starter.

looks like problem is in circuit 85.....87 is output to starter

Customer: replied 1 month ago.
What about terminal 86? 4.7v from pcm is okay?

that should be a ground so its a weak ground?

all relays need a ground to command relay closed

if 86 is pcm command it would be a ground command...are you checking this with relay connected or not?

Customer: replied 1 month ago.
relay connected. Not familiar with ground from com. But my meter positive lead is connected to a power source and negative lead to ground contact at relay from pcm. I also tested ground wire from pcm under fuse box to see if there was a change. Same voltage.

so its like a weak ground from the pcm when you turn key?

if you were take the negative lead and hook it up to the neg battery post it reads normal?

ALLDATA Repair

Inbox

    See All

    BURTON S AUTOMOTIVE INC
    BURTONSAUTOMOTI0Shop

    • Select Vehicle
    • |
    • New TSBs
    • |
    • Technician`s Reference
    • |
    • Library Request
    • |
    • Community :

    Conversion Calculator

    2010 Dodge Charger V6-3.5L

    Vehicle » Starting and Charging » Technical Service Bulletins » All Technical Service Bulletins » Recall 10V200000: Ignition Switch Replacement

    • Recall 10V200000: Ignition Switch Replacement

    VEHICLE MAKE/MODEL: MODEL YEAR(S):

    Chrysler/300 2010

    Dodge/Challenger 2010

    Dodge/Charger 2010

    Dodge/RAM 2010

    Jeep/Commander 2010

    Jeep/Grand Cherokee 2010

    MANUFACTURER: Chrysler Group LLC

    MFR'S REPORT DATE: May 06, 2010

    NHTSA CAMPAIGN ID NUMBER: 10V200000

    NHTSA ACTION NUMBER: N/A

    COMPONENT: Electrical System: Ignition: Module

    POTENTIAL NUMBER OF UNITS AFFECTED: 40131

    SUMMARY:
    Chrysler is recalling certain model year 2010 Chrysler 300, Dodge Challenger, Charger, Jeep Commander, Grand Cherokee and Dodge RAM vehicles. These vehicles may have been built with a Wireless Ignition Node (WIN) module exhibiting a binding condition of the solenoid latch.

    CONSEQUENCE:
    The result of the defect could lead to a condition where the key may be removed from the Ignition Switch (WIN MODULE) prior to placing the shifter in park. This could result in the potential for unintended vehicle movement and could increase the risk of a crash.

    REMEDY:
    Dealers will inspect and replace the WIN Module free of charge. The safety recall is expected to begin during July 2010. Owners may contact Chrysler at 1-***-***-****.

    NOTES:
    Owners may also contact The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration's Vehicle Safety Hotline at 1-***-***-**** (TTY 1-***-***-****), or go to http://www.safercar.gov.

    © 2017 ALLDATA LLC. All rights reserved. Terms and Conditions

    th​e fact that you have low voltage on 85 and that the ignition switch is on recall. I would call Chrysler USA

    I​g voltages were good and you had a bad/low ground from pcm then I would be pointing at pcm....I think the bad ground is a symptom.....get the ignition switch replaced free at dodge. please rate me as my compensation depends on that. circuit 85 and 86 come from pcm

    bu​t if pcm is not getting enough input from ignition switch then you wont get enough input to relay

    f​rom the pcm....I would get your free recall done first make sense. please rate me as my compensation depends on it

    h​ow is it going if you have no more questions I would appreciate you rating me as that is how I am compensated

    eric remington,
    Category: Dodge
    Satisfied Customers: 275
    Experience: mechanic/service advisor at topline auto
    eric remington and 5 other Dodge Specialists are ready to help you