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Chris
Chris, Shop Foreman
Category: Dodge
Satisfied Customers: 13576
Experience:  Dodge/Cummins and Chrysler Certified Master Tech
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Well, I have a 2001 Dodge Diesel 2500 4x4 5.9 standard and I

Customer Question

Well, I have a 2001 Dodge Diesel 2500 4x4 5.9 standard and I had no signal, brake or hazzard lights that worked so I replaced the multifunction switch and now it won't start as the indicator for the "wait to start" does not come on or kick in as I can't hear it. I have checked the fuses and relays and all are fine. Any help would be great. Thanks
JA: It's good that it's giving you information about the problem. The Dodge Mechanic will know what to do. Are you hoping to fix this yourself?
Customer: Yes as I am miles from anywhere
JA: Great! What have you tried so far?
Customer: fuses and switch
JA: Is there anything else the Dodge Mechanic should be aware of about your Dodge?
Customer: it rarely has a problem
JA: OK. Got it. I'm sending you to a secure page on JustAnswer so you can place the $5 fully-refundable deposit now. While you're filling out that form, I'll tell the Dodge Mechanic about your situation and then connect you two.
Submitted: 1 year ago.
Category: Dodge
Expert:  Chris replied 1 year ago.

Hello and welcome to just answer. Since you were working around the steering column when replacing the multifunction switch, check the connector at the ignition switch. Disconnect it and inspect the terminals. Reconnect it and see if it will start. Let me know,

Chris

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Where would I find the ignition connector? In the colum?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
found it, right at the bottom of the switch, all terminals look good. Made no difference.
Expert:  Chris replied 1 year ago.

Ok, do you have a 12 volt test light?

Chris

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I just had the signal and brake lights on and it created a burning smell so took out flasher relay.
Expert:  Chris replied 1 year ago.

Ok. When I get home from church I will send you a wiring diagram so we can do a few tests. Chris

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Sounds good. I will be back then too.
Expert:  Chris replied 1 year ago.

Ok, using the test light, check and see if there is power on the 2 Fused Batt + terminals on the switch connector (they are highlighted in BOLD. Copy and paste the DropBox link below into your browser's address bar and hit enter to see the picture of the connector. Let me know what you find.

Chris

https://www.dropbox.com/s/appmc8djjg0ajzh/IGNITION%20SWITCH%20C1.doc?dl=0

.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
ok both b + terminals have current.
Expert:  Chris replied 1 year ago.

Ok good now when you turn the key to the start position, do you have voltage on the Yellow wire and on the Dark Blue wire? You will have to plug the connector in and probe it through the back side of the connector wherd the wires go into it. Let me know what you find.

Chris

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
there is voltage on the blue one but not on the yellow one
Expert:  Chris replied 1 year ago.

Ok, then that tells me the ignition switch has failed. Replace the ignition switch. Based on what you have told me, that should fix it.

Chris

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Question - if b+ current is fed to the yellow wire, should we be able to hear the heater solenoid turn on?
Expert:  Chris replied 1 year ago.

Yes if the starter relay and wiring from the switch to the relay is good

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Hey, we are not done yet......I didn`t have a ignition switch in my back pocket or in the next town, so had to order it in. In the process of installing.....will let you know how that goes....
Expert:  Chris replied 1 year ago.

Ok, sounds good. I will keep an eye out for you.

Chris

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
just an update - no news, as it has been snowing, windy and ice pellets all day and as the truck is outside, it did not get looked at today....will touch base tomorrow.
Expert:  Chris replied 1 year ago.

Ok, thanks for the update, and stay warm. I will keep an eye out for you.

Chris

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Changed ignition switch with no new results - yellow wire still has no power.
Expert:  Chris replied 1 year ago.

Really? when you turn the key to start the yellow wire has no power, yet both B + wires have power?

When you turn the key to the start position does it feel normal? I ask that because maybe the lock cylinder mechanism is broken inside. Try removing the switch and turning it to start with a flat blade screw driver.

Chris

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
that is correct - yellow has no power and both b+ wires have power.
Yes when key is turned on, it feels normal.
Expert:  Chris replied 1 year ago.

Very strange indeed. If you remove the switch and then stick a screwdriver into the switch's mechanissm/slot and turn the switch to start with the screw driver will it crank?

Chris

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Just to clarify - we do not have a problem with cranking the motor, it cranks over but there is no light indicator that comes on, "wait to start " nor does the manifold/engine heater come on.
Expert:  Chris replied 1 year ago.

Well ok. A while back I asked you when you turned the key to the start position if there was power on the blue and the yellow wire. You said that there was no power when turned to the start position and that is what sent me down the path of a no crank issue. But it does crank so there has to be power on the Yellow wire. Ok, let me regroup and rethink this.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Sorry to have led you down the garden path, as it was only in your last message that the words "start position" sunk in.
Rechecked the yellow with the ignition in the start position and it has power.....but since that is the case, then in one of your previous messages, when you said that I should be able to hear the heater solenoid turn on with power fed to the yellow wire, must not be correct, as the heaters come on in the run position.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
That is....the heater comes on, normally, in the run position.
Expert:  Chris replied 1 year ago.

Right. That is correct. Ok when I get home from work I will pull up 5he diagram again and see what the next step is.

Chris

Expert:  Chris replied 1 year ago.

So let's regroup. The truck started and ran just fine until you replaced the turn signal multifunction switch correct?

Chris

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
that is correct, except that my signal, hazzard and brake lights, did not work. That is why I replaced the mulit-function switch, not finding any other problems in the chasis. When the new switch was installed a message came up in the trip meter, "no bu5 "
Expert:  Chris replied 1 year ago.

Ok, That "no bus" is a clue. That message comes up when the communication bus is down. The voltage for the bus comes from the ECM (engine computer). Our next step is to check for voltage at the ECM connector. I am going to send you the ECM connector pin out so you can check that.

Be back in a bit.

Chris

Expert:  Chris replied 1 year ago.

Ok here is the link. You may need to use a little stick pin inserted into the terminals and then touch the test light to the stick pin. let me know what you find.

Chris.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ysqenod1sy7kods/ECM%20connector.doc?dl=0

.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Just to confirm we are checking 5, 48 and 50?
We understand that they are to be probed with the connectors attached.
Is this correct?
Expert:  Chris replied 1 year ago.

Those are the correct terminals, but disconnect it from the ECM(use a 4 mm allen wrench). And check them with the key on.

Chris

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Check on the ECM side?
Expert:  Chris replied 1 year ago.

On the connector itself where it plugs into the ECM. You will need a tiny stick pin or paper clip inserted into the terminal, then touch the terminal with your test light.

Chris

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Is it necessary to take the fuel filter off to get at the assembly?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
from the top because it is very difficult to get under the vehicle, at this time.
Expert:  Chris replied 1 year ago.

Yeah, you can unbolt the fuel filter and swing it out a bit, or remove it. Note that if you disconnect the fuel filter lines that you may need to bleed the system to get it to start.

Chris

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
just an update....we did not get the fuel filter off today as it was too cold to work outside with the fuel lines. Hopefully tomorrow.
Expert:  Chris replied 1 year ago.

Ok, no worries. Thanks for the update, and I will look for you tomorrow.

Chris

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
It didn't get any warmer today.....:(
Expert:  Chris replied 1 year ago.

Ok, well maybe tomorrow huh?

Chris

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
To begin there is a question about orientation of the plug.  The illustration provided shows two indexes around the periphery of the plug.  The one in question has two opposing points on the side opposite side.  These are off=set from each other, however there is no reference on the drawing for a positive identification.  In addition there is one of these indexes on each end as well..  If in fact the ECM is mounted in a common orientation may be a help.  However that is unknown to us.  The mounting bolts on the unit in question is an inverted diamond with the pointed end towards the bottom of the engine.  The wire bundle comes from this direction as well,..IE: from the front axle up.  Also on this connector is a guide pin or whatever adjacent to the retaining bolt in the center and on the top side of the bolt.  There is no reference to this projection in the drawing provided.All that said and presuming the row of pins 1-10 is on the upper or top side of the engine, with the key switch in the run or ign position,... voltage is a follows.Pin No   Voltage5             0.00148           2.4550           .70The only pin that has B+ voltage or even close is pin #6  (12.00v)B+ voltage at the battery 12.20
Expert:  Chris replied 1 year ago.

Ok, let me pull up the diagram when I get home from work tonight. In the meantime, can you tell me what the colors of the wires you checked? That would be helpful.

Chris

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Colour was not highly visible. But will check in morning if we can dig our way to the truck as we are getting a dump load of snow at the moment.
Expert:  Chris replied 1 year ago.

Ok

Expert:  Chris replied 1 year ago.

Ok terminal # ***** is a Light Green wire with a Black stripe. 48 and 50 are both Red wires with a White stripe. See if that helps you you identify the correct wires.

Chris

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
We have confirmed the orientation of the receptacle and am comfortable with the identification.  As a net result the previous data was erroneous.  Note the following.#5           12.2#48        .001#50        .001B+ voltage at the battery terminals            12.54
Expert:  Chris replied 1 year ago.

Ok, let me see where the voltage should be coming from. After dinner I will pull up the diagram again.

Chris

Expert:  Chris replied 1 year ago.

Check fuse # ***** (a 20 amp fuse) That fuse supplies voltage to 48 and 50. It is in the under hood fuse box. It may be labeled "engine or ECM" It should have voltage all the time. Let me know what you find.

Chris

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
OK.  after it warmed up from -37deg C we checked the #3 fuse.  Initially it seemed to be fine, however the meter would flutter if the fuse was wacked with a screwdriver handle.  It was decided to change the fuse just in case.  Following the fuse replacement the procedure check was performed on the #s 5,48, 50 sockets in the ECM connector.  The voltage on all terminals was within a couple of tenths of B+ voltage.??
Expert:  Chris replied 1 year ago.

Aha! you are getting somewhere. Maybe a poor/loose connection in the fuse box/PDC. Hook everything back up and see if she will start.

Chris

Expert:  Chris replied 1 year ago.

Any luck?

Chris

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
it started but the original problem of no lights is still an issue.
Expert:  Chris replied 1 year ago.

Ok, well at least she is running again. So the Brake and turn signal lights to not work? Do the turn signal lights on the front come on?

Chris

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Replacement of the "Engine" fuse would appear to have appeared to corrected the no start challenge. It would appear to not have much effect on the signal light problem. We changed the multifunction switch and signal light normal activity resumed. Not sure we understand the association between the "Engine" fuse and the multifunction switch. Or perhaps there is no connection. We are beginning to suspect there may be a corrosion problem with the junctions, connections, or whatever, in the power distribution center. Is there any history of challenges in this area? Would you have anything to offer here? This unit operates in a salted highway environment in the winter period.
Expert:  Chris replied 1 year ago.

Hmmmm, the only thing that comes to mind is maybe the large bulkhead connector under the dash (to the left of the steering column) may have some corroded or loose terminals, so take a close look at that. Otherwise I do not see any correlation between the engine fuse and the multifunction switch at this point. Check for any loose ground connections under the dash and in the engine compartment also.

Well at least the truck is running again and the lights work huh?

I hope this information helps and if so please don't forget to rate my service using the just answer rating system on your page. If you have further questions after you rate, no worries because I will continue to help you even after you rate.

Thank you!

Chris

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Replacement of the "Engine" fuse would appear to have appeared to corrected the no start challenge.  It would appear to not have much effect on the signal light problem.  We changed the multifunction switch and signal light normal activity resumed.  Not sure we understand the association between the "Engine" fuse and the multifunction switch.  Or perhaps there is no connection.  We are beginning to suspect there may be a corrosion problem with the junctions, connections, or whatever, in the power distribution center.  Is there any history of challenges in this area?  Would you have anything to offer here?  This unit operates in a salted highway environment in the winter period.
Expert:  Chris replied 1 year ago.

Hmmmm, the only thing that comes to mind is maybe the large bulkhead connector under the dash (to the left of the steering column) may have some corroded or loose terminals, so take a close look at that. Otherwise I do not see any correlation between the engine fuse and the multifunction switch at this point. Check for any loose ground connections under the dash and in the engine compartment also.

Well at least the truck is running again and the lights work huh?

I hope this information helps and if so please don't forget to rate my service using the just answer rating system on your page. If you have further questions after you rate, no worries because I will continue to help you even after you rate.

Thank you!

Chris