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Dodgerench
Dodgerench, ASE Certified Technician
Category: Dodge
Satisfied Customers: 3404
Experience:  30+ years Dodge/Chrysler exp., ASE Master with L1 certification. Driveability/ combustion specialist
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Here truck started running rough. restarted it ran fine.

Customer Question

Hi, Mason Here truck started running rough. restarted it ran fine. drove home shut it off. tried to move it a while later would not start. finally paid attention to the dash and saw that the ETC sign on dash was flashing. What to do??? Im at 111118 miles
Submitted: 2 years ago.
Category: Dodge
Expert:  Eric replied 2 years ago.
HI,
I am sorry that you have not been helped yet. I just came online and saw your question
The ETC(electronic throttle control) light comes on when a fault is detected in either the APP(accelerator pedal position) sensor, the electronic throttle body or the computer in relation to these 2.
You diablo tuner wont pull manufacturer specific codes for the etc, which means it needs to be scanned with a high end scan tool.
I can say that most of the time when a vehicle has around 100K miles on it such as yours, the problem turns out to be a faulty throttle body, but would need the manufacturer fault codes to verify this.
You can do a check of the wiring and connectors at the APP sensor at the top of the gas pedal and at the throttle body for loose connectors or broken, cut or chafed wiring and repair as needed.
If ok, then I would suggest having it scanned for the stored etc fault codes before replacing the APP sensor or throttle body, but if you cannot have this done or dont want to for whatever reason, the first place to start would be replacing the throttle body
Please remember to rate service using the rating page so that I may receive credit. Thanks
Expert:  Eric replied 2 years ago.
I noticed we have not yet resolved your concern you asked about. I would sure appreciate it if you would reply so I can offer my skills and knowledge and repair guide access to help as best I can.
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If the answer is YES to any of these just press reply and lets work on this concern some more.
If you have new questions now or in the future please do not hesitate to ask them. If you would like me to assist you. Just bookmark this page so you can access my profile easy and post a new question from the question box on my profile page. Please remember to rate service using the rating page so that I may receive credit. Thanks
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Thanks for your answer. I have checked all wiring suggested. No broken or chafed wires. Just trying to clarify my situation. (Long day the other day.) Friday on the way to work I drove through a puddle slow. Truck was running fine to work, 4 miles. Came out to leave at lunch time and the truck started but was running really rough. I shut it off and restarted it. Corrected whatever it was and ran fine. Decided to hook up Diablo tuner to see if any codes existed. When I hooked it up it stated that previous tune could not be accessed. Loaded saved stock tune back to truck. Restarted truck and it ran fine. Drove home 4 miles. Had to move my truck for my wife and it would not start at all. Turns over fine. Strong battery. Does not even attempt to start, like no spark or no fuel. Listened for fuel pump and I can hear it come on.
Bought a code reader yesterday and the only code showing was for PO129 I replaced the map sensor after reading the same code for it from the Diablo tuner. Reading what came out is new to me so not sure about all readings or lack of "0's".
I still have the symbol for the ETC on the dash. So after all this blabbing........
If there is something in the reader, information wise, that I should give or could give you to help further diagnose what might be going on please let me know. I have absolutely no problem working on my truck myself.........if I only knew what was wrong with it!
Expert:  Eric replied 1 year ago.
Hi,
Try spraying some starting fluid into the throttle body and start it and see it at least starts and runs for a few seconds
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Will do.
Expert:  Eric replied 1 year ago.
HI,
Ok, let me know the results.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
No DICE! tried to start it thought it wanted to start. Only made one thump kind of sound as if trying to start and then nothing but turning over.
Expert:  Eric replied 1 year ago.
HI,
Security/antitheft light isnt blinking or staying on is it?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I'm at work right now but I will look to see when I get home. I can't recall if I saw any other lights coming on when I had the key in the on position.
Expert:  Eric replied 1 year ago.
Hi,
Ok, sounds good and let me know when you can
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
No security light flashing. Still only have the ETC light flashing with no start. Still turns over strong.........for now.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Not staying on either.
Expert:  Eric replied 1 year ago.
HI,
I got to admit that I am stumped on this one. I am going to opt out and open this up to the other experts to see if they know where the problem lies
Expert:  Dodgerench replied 1 year ago.

Good evening, this is Ed.

I'm guessing your engine is flooded for some reason. Try holding the accelerator flat to the floor and crank the engine at least 10 seconds consecutively.

The reason I'm thinking it's flooded is really process of elimination... but could be wrong.

The fact that it will crank at all tells me that the PCM (engine controller) is awake, or the starter couldn't engage.

Hemi engines can start and run with just a cam OR crank sensor signal, so chances are good that you hadn't lost both sensors at the same time.

Cam and crank sensors use separate power feeds, so the loss of one power source wouldn't affect the other.

You can hear the fuel pump run at key-on, so it's likely that you have fuel delivery if the tank isn't dry.

And adding an alternate fuel source isn't effective.

By holding the accelerator at wide open throttle while cranking, you're telling the PCM to shut the injectors off in order to clear a flood condition, a feature that works at engine speeds below 300 RPM -- cranking speed. If the engine starts and exceeds 300 RPM, everything goes back to normal, but you may need to nurse the engine for a little while until it clears out. Let's see what happens.

Ed

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Good morning Ed.
I'll try that out when I get home.
Expert:  Dodgerench replied 1 year ago.

That'll be fine, Mason. Talk in a bit.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Very hectic day yesterday! Anyway tried what you suggested. Put pedal to floor truck actually started after only a few seconds.
the idle is very rough but stays running. The ETC light is still flashing. Main thing is, absolutely No throttle response.
Pushed pedal slow. No response from engine. Pushed the pedal fast no response from engine.
Dead throttle body??
Expert:  Dodgerench replied 1 year ago.

There very well might be something going on with the throttle body, but I'd be surprised if it was actually defective, plus there are no ETC-centric codes stored. That P0129 is an odd one and might have some bearing on the situation since it will cause the ETC lamp to flash and that probably limits power output as well. ETC-type systems don't like it one bit when their information is compromised, so your throttle has probably been taken away on purpose. Ouch.

Expert:  Dodgerench replied 1 year ago.

We need to get a look at the 5v source that feeds your MAP sensor and output voltage of the MAP to get a better idea of what's going on. If your scanner (either one) has the capacity to directly read sensor voltages, check your key-on reading of the MAP sensor to begin with. If your altitude is near sea level, expect to see something around 4.5 volts, but here in mile-high Denver we have to make do with 3.7v. The code sets if key-on voltage is between 2.2v and 0.4, neither of which should be possible with the engine off. Voltage drops with pressure, as you noticed.

The 5v circuit is colored yellow-pink and it should show 4.8 to 5.2 volts. This stream should be steady, not changing if the engine is started or whatever. It's shared with a number of other sensors, so if it's low, we'll need to start unplugging them and rechecking voltage. The others on the same circuit are: EGR position sensor, trans pressure sensor, accelerator position sensor (the pedal assembly) and the camshaft position sensor. A separate 5v output serves the remaining sensors, which is an improvement over the way they used to do it ... one feed went to all and if it got shorted, the PCM went to sleep.

If OK (5.2 to 4.8v), check your MAP signal voltage with the key on and the sensor plugged in (wire color violet-brown). Realistically, anything lower than 3.5v if you live below 6000 feet is just plain wrong.

And last (for now), take your air cleaner duct off at the throttle body so you can get a better look at the throttle body blade. Make sure nothing has gotten stuck in the blade, like a chunk of air cleaner foam seal or something of that sort. ETC does a self-test at every key-on and if it doesn't like what it sees, you'll likely lose ETC function for the whole key cycle.

Then turn the key on. The throttle valve should do a quick dance, opening and closing as it does its self-test. You can hear something going on from the driver's seat, but it would be better if you had a helper to watch the event. BTW, wiring for the ETC is more visible with the ducting removed and this is a favorite critter chew area. Look at the front and left (driver) side of the intake for signs of hoarded hood pad, leaves, grass or freaking destroyed wiring. Man, they can really make a mess of things...

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
A friend of mine here has a son-in-law who is a mechanic who's specialty is automotive electronics.
He has a code reader, (high end) that he is going to bring over at some point this week and check my truck.
Today or tomorrow. IF for some reason he can't determine what is going on I will resort to the tests you have suggested.
Expert:  Dodgerench replied 1 year ago.

Sounds good, Mason. I'll be missing for a day or two (back by Thurs for sure) so you'll have some time to sort things out. Good luck!

Ed

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Just an FYI. Turned out to be my EGR valve. It went out so everything run in the 5v system decided not to work.
Unplugged it and it started fine. Tried it a couple of times without it plugged in and once with it plugged back in. With pluuged back in it proceeded to run terrible again. Unplugged once more ran fine.
So new EGR all is well in Dodge land!
Expert:  Dodgerench replied 1 year ago.

Outstanding... and it was one of the easier components to check! Sometimes life is good. :)

Well, congratulations and it would sure make my day if you rated our experience favorably. It's been good working with you.

Take care!

Ed