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Dakota: I have a 95 dakota 3.9 which at complete random will…

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I have a 95 dakota...
I have a 95 dakota 3.9 which at complete random will stall or not crank after shutting it off. If it stalls it wont run, just turn over and over. I get no power to the fuel pump, no power to the injectors, no power to the coil. After a few (up to 15/20 mins) power is instantly returned and can be driven. I changed plugs, wires, cap, and button, then the problem started. Died at a red light, 10 mins later drove 45 mins home. I then changed the fuel pump after finding no fuel during no start. Reoccurrance upon filling the gas tank 10 mins from home. This is where I found that the coil has no power. I swapped the relays, no help. Tested the relay box, has power. Yet no power to the fuel pump or coil and the injectors are not opening ( fuel pressure never drops). I have respliced "A14" splice at the relay box and have run out of ideas. After hours of studying schematics I was sure I was losing power to the relays, no dice. I dont have much money to throw at it after $155.99 fuel pump.
Submitted: 3 years ago.Category: Dodge
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Answered in 35 minutes by:
5/20/2015
Dodge Mechanic: Dr. Hamman, Dodge Technician replied 3 years ago
Dr. Hamman
Dr. Hamman, Dodge Technician
Category: Dodge
Satisfied Customers: 6,286
Experience: I have 30 years of Dodge Technician experience. I know these cars in great detail.
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Hi, I am a professional certified mechanic, with an engineering background, and 35+ years experience. I will do my best to assist you. Also keep in mind I don't know if you are a pro or a novice, so feel free to add any additional info at any time.
I am an electrical specialist, and I will try to help. There was more than one splice under the hood that causes problems on this model. Heat seems to trigger the splices loosing continuity. Have you opened up the wiring harness under the hood and looked beyond the splice you mentioned.
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Customer reply replied 3 years ago
I have traced it on the schematic and this seems to be the only one connected to the relays, ignition coil, and the fuel system. Though the problem is more repeatable with the a/c running. Still no guarantee though. Heat seems a major factor though, I could not repeat the failure after dark last night. Also, I dont know if its connected or not but my headlight switch has been shorting from the headlight pin to the right front turn signal pin. I think thats because of something in the turn signal socket though.
Dodge Mechanic: Dr. Hamman, Dodge Technician replied 3 years ago
Do the headlights and the signal lights still work, can you tell me a little more about this problem.
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Customer reply replied 3 years ago
The lights work, only jumps when the headlights are on. There is some kind of material in the right front turnsignal socket (grease or similar)
Customer reply replied 3 years ago
I am not an electrician, I can wire speakers, amps or stereos but havent in this truck. I did the "tune up" and the next day had the stall/hot start problem. The motor turns over well just not getting fuel or fire. As stated above I get residual fuel pressure but no pump, injectors, or power to the coil. I read somewhere that it could be the crank sensor or cam sensor but sudden failure with no warning? It seems like every time it has not cranked or stalled(2 times at a red light after a 30-***** the a/c has been running. It has become an every stop issue now though. When it wont crank I have power to the relays but even brand new ones wont crank it, I only hear a single relay click and I get a code 42 with the "key test" method. My haynes repair manual lists this code as "automatic shutdown relay driver circuit" but the relay has power and if I put my tester light in the #85 slot for the relay and have the light grounded I get a click from the fuel pump or auto shutdown relay (whichever I have not removed for access). Also, heres a first, just tried to start the truck (after sitting for nearly 2hrs) and I turns over but wont ignite. The only thing I have done differently was leave the ignition on...????
Customer reply replied 3 years ago
I was told the motor was rebuilt at around 179,000 miles, I have had the truck for three years and it now has 331,000 miles. Hence the "tune up". Another possible clue, in the last 10,000 miles my oil pressure gauge has kind of had a mind of its own. It will randomly drop and rise with no warning or known cause. I originally thought the pump was bad and replaced it and the motor mounts were only catching on the safety latch. This was about 15 months ago right after I had the transmission rebuilt. The pcm was replaced before I bought the truck (because of a worn rear band in the transmission). When I replaced the distributor cap the contacts were burned as was the rotor button (assumption: old parts past the replacement age, estimating 160,000 miles). I went with o.e. style parts so as to avoid this kind of problem.As for the headlight switch, I believe it is shorting in the turn signal socket which has no bulb for the moment and has not shorted yet. But I am having this starting problem. To clarify the starter does engage and the motor turns over when it has been driven I get no power to the ignition coil, fuel injectors, or fuel pump. From sitting over night I have no issue cranking and driving the truck and it has only stalled sitting still at a red light. No stalling at idle or while driving. The rollover valve on the fuel pump has not been connected since I bought the truck (someone broke it and I cant find a new one) so I have ruled it out. I am trying to give you all the diagnosis I have been able to establish. Does the oil pressure sending unit ground to the block?
Customer reply replied 3 years ago
Im doing the cam and crank sensors now since I have nothing else to go on...
Dodge Mechanic: Dr. Hamman, Dodge Technician replied 3 years ago
Hi, I am a professional certified mechanic, with an engineering background, and 35+ years experience. I will do my best to assist you. Also keep in mind I don't know if you are a pro or a novice, so feel free to add any additional info at any time.
I went and dug out my notes on the fixes for the splices on this model. There are 9 splices under the hood, 10 if you count the ground union. They can all be thermally reactive. This is a known problem on Dakotas. Once it shows up it is like chasing a ghost, because they tend to check good when you check for continuity, and then bail out when the heat is on, the AC tends to make the heat rise. I have worked on so many strange electrical problems, I have learned over and over on this model to get into the splices with symptoms like you have. Back 10 years ago when there were a lot more of these on the road, we would see 10 to 20 a year with splice problems. I haven't seen one in a few years. What I always do is to carefully open up the harnesses under the hood and solder all the splices, don't leave the wire harnesses open when it is all done. I do recall a red wire under the fuse box that was a problem many times. Any area you disturbed. like a connector and harness area that might have gotten leaned on or moved is a potential problem area. That is if the tune up has anything to do with the failure, it can be just a coincidence. You mentioned a light you had the bulb out of. I have seen problems with the passenger side front parking light having a short right near the bulb socket. You might want to inspect the wire in that area, and see if it is scraping/shorting anywhere. This is one of those problems where there is no one clear answer. I know that isn’t what you want to hear, but it is the nature of this problem. Odds are soldering the splices will solve the problem. It may well go beyond that, but I have seen the splices act up so many times they are my first stop with these symptoms. If you have any more questions at all, I am here to help. Good luck with it, have a great day, and Thanks for using Just Answer.
I do not get paid for my work unless you rate at 3 to 5 Smiley Faces or Stars, a bonus is always greatly appreciated. If the answer is not clear, let me know what additional help you need, and I will be happy to assist you further.
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Customer reply replied 3 years ago
I have located 3 splices plus changed cam sensor( it had holes in it) the crank sensor was crimp spliced for no reason I can find (possibly redneck engineering). The "red" splice was the one I fixed before I spoke with you ( it was obviously bad, corroded and brittle copper). Do I need to disconnect the battery for a reset after replacing the sensors? The truck still will not crank and due to the hood light being on for the last 10 hours I have a dead battery. Sorry to keep asking questions but all the splices are showing power through my test light and im at the end of my rope. After eliminating all splices should I look to the ignition switch or computer first?Could it be timing, I know the 3.9 mag is known for "chain slap", its been getting worse. No backfire or misfire has been detected but could it be the slack?
Dodge Mechanic: Dr. Hamman, Dodge Technician replied 3 years ago
Hi, I am a professional certified mechanic, with an engineering background, and 35+ years experience. I will do my best to assist you. Also keep in mind I don't know if you are a pro or a novice, so feel free to add any additional info at any time.
The slack in the chain wont be the problem. Odds are soldering the splices will solve the problem. It may well go beyond that, if it does you will need to get into some diagnostics with a volt ohm meter. It can get pretty deep if you have to go that way, that is why I would solder all the splices and see if that cures the problem. If you have any more questions at all, I am here to help. Good luck with it, have a great day, and Thanks for using Just Answer.
I do not get paid for my work unless you rate at 3 to 5 Smiley Faces or Stars, a bonus is always greatly appreciated. If the answer is not clear, let me know what additional help you need, and I will be happy to assist you further.
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Customer reply replied 3 years ago
So, after an exhaustive search and the complete dismantling of the under hood wiring harness, I have concluded that this is absolutely not the problem. With the wiring still un wrapped I still have to backtrack to repair all the unnecessary dismantling. What I have found is the pulse ring in the distributor is "floating" around where the plastic "rivets" are worn. The pulse ring will move any direction, altering the air gap, and turns nearly 10 degrees. Which classifies my issue as timing. At this point I would like to thank you for your advice and attempt to help, though in vein. Also in light of having wasted about 14 hrs tracing countless wires (pointlessly) I would like to humbly and respectfully ***** ***** full refund. Again I do appreciate that you gave me an idea but the pulse ring is in fact the culprit. The pulse ring apparently controls the ignition timing, injector actuation, and auto shutdown relay. I hate that you have wasted time trying to help and hope this post helps someone else but again I feel as though a full refund is in order especially considering I was repeatedly told to look at the harness. Thanks againMac
Certified shade tree mechanic
Non traditionally schooled engineer
Dodge Mechanic: Dr. Hamman, Dodge Technician replied 3 years ago
Hi, I am a professional certified mechanic, with an engineering background, and 35+ years experience. I will do my best to assist you. Also keep in mind I don't know if you are a pro or a novice, so feel free to add any additional info at any time.
As an expert I am just a user of the website just like you, I only get paid off of positive ratings. Justanswer is the one who has any your funds. They are good people and they will take care of you. As far as time diagnostics are always a process of elimination, the time it takes time is just part of the process. From here I am pretty handicapped, but I can help point you towards the right direction, or I should say the direction I would take. You mentioned multiple power failures on a vehicle known for multiple power failures so to me the next logical step to me was clear, logic doesn't always rule the day. Also the pickup in the dist wont cause power failure so I didn't give it a seconds thought. As far as me being paid, I do like that, but it is your decision because I receive no pay for helping without a good rating. Either way it is fine I am here to help, and that is just how it works. Get with Justanswers customer service for a refund if that is what you decide to do. So it is good to hear you found the problem, and got it going. Good luck with it, have a great day, and Thanks for using Just Answer.
I do not get paid for my work unless you rate at 3 to 5 Smiley Faces or Stars, a bonus is always greatly appreciated. If the answer is not clear, let me know what additional help you need, and I will be happy to assist you further.
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Customer reply replied 3 years ago
I must apologize, apparently I spoke too soon. The distributor was not the problem. I have found that the pcm is "squealing" from one corner. It has been rebuilt before, I checked and it is not warranted so I opened it up. The squeal is coming from the corner of the computer that was repaired before. It also makes kind of a pulsing sound, is this supposed to happen? Kind of sounds like a camera flash charging and discharging when the key is on. Due to the amber silicone encasing the computer I cant see any burns or markings. With the key on I am getting power to terminal 3 in the computer labeled "battery" in my book, the asd relay (red wire white stripe). Terminal 9 (ignition feed) shows no power to a ground. Nor do terminal 57 (asd b+??? What ever that means), terminal 19 (ignition coil driver) , the injectors and coil still show no power, if I ground the right slot under the asd relay the fuel pump relay clicks. I Tried a jumper with no luck. It appears as though the computer might need replacing but I need to figure out how to test it first. I created a list of splices as listed in my haynes repair manual. There are 9 splices and 3 sub splices, ill start with the sub splices.I am using a test light to a known groundK4-1 looks and test good
Sensor return @ computer, k4 splice, intake air temp sensor, coolant temp sensorA21-1 beautiful splice and power
Daytime running lights (Canadian)
A/c compressor relay
Ignition switch
Asd relay
A21 spliceA142-1 no power
A142 splice
Asd b+ on the computer
Ignition coil
Generator
Injectors 2, 4, 6K4 good
Cam sensor
Throttle pos. Sensor
Oxygen sensor
Map sensor
Speed sensor
Crank sensor
K4-1 spliceK6 no 5 volt supply with light
5volt supply at computer
Map sensor
Throttle pos. SensorK7 no 8 volt input registered by my light
8 volt input (computer)
Crank sensor
Cam sensorG7 non exsistant splice
"VSS" computer pin
Seed sensor
Daytime running lights Canadian
A21 shows power looks goodK51 looks good reads powerA14 respliced
Checks great
A142 no power
Injectors 1, 3, 5
Oxygen sensor
Asd relay
A142-1 spliceA1 checks fine
Dodge Mechanic: Dr. Hamman, Dodge Technician replied 3 years ago
Many the symptoms you have seem to be conflicting, because of that and difficulty's of diagnosing problems like this without me having hands on. I am going to opt out. Possibly another expert will chime in and help. Or possibly you could get the refund you were asking for in your previous post. Problems like this can be tough, good luck with it, have a great day, and thanks for using Just Answer.
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Dodge Mechanic: Amedee, Dodge Technician replied 3 years ago
Amedee
Amedee, Dodge Technician
Category: Dodge
Satisfied Customers: 28,338
Experience: ASE certified tech advanced level specialist. Wisconsin certified emissions state inspector
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Hello and welcome!
My name isCustomerand I can assist you with your question.
Different expert here.
Did you still need help?
If so, please reply back so I can help.
Customer
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