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Need help with a 2002 Dodge RAM 1500 4x4 problem: Crank, no start problem. 2002 ram 1500 4.7
Been working on it a couple days. truck just died at my house luckily. battery good, fuses and relays good. no spark. It started one time while testing things but then died again. I am thinking crank sensor or pcm failure. after removing battery for hours and trying to start. holding the odometer button and turning the key, panel reads a c-code of aa 01 "PCM messages not received". Does this mean the pcm is shot? Would a code reader give me any more detail than reading the dash?
Make: DodgeModel: RAM 1500 4x4Year: 2002Engine: 4.7Already Tried: tested battery checked fuses and relays shot starter fluid in intake- nothing tried an inline spark tool - no spark not sure if these work on this vehicle unplugged and re-plugged the pcm
Welcome to JustAnswer. I'm a 15 Yr Dodge Dealership technician, and the first thing we need to do is try and get some codes.. Can you do this:
I tried this and nothing happened. Is this different that what I already did? I turned on the key with the odometer reset held down. That is how I got the c- code aa 01
The key cycle is how to self retrieve codes, and not the odometer reset... The aa01 code means nothing.. I will need a P code.. Can you try again? If nothing then I will need for you to grab a multimeter so we can test a few circuits..Brad
I tried again with no display other than the odometer reading.
Would taking the battery off while having it tested for hours have cleared any codes?
Yes disconnecting the battery likely DID erase the codes.. Since you don't have any spark can you disconnect the camshaft sensor located here and tell me if it starts.. It will have a long crank time, maybe 10 sec but see if it starts.
Under the front of the passenger head... If it doesn't start check for 5v on the Orange wire at camshaft sensor connector.
20 second start attempt....nothing
5.75v at orange wire
Ok since it didn't start that would leave the PCM or crank sensor.. Can you check the 12v and ground to PCM?
Check pins 22 for 12v and pins 31-32 for ground...Let me know,Brad
yes, those check out
no need to test wires at crankshaft sensor?
bought a code reader....it says "no codes"
I am putting in a new crank position sensor
I may have miss-diagnosed the core problem. I thought it was spark, because I bought an inline spark tester but I am not sure they work correctly on these coil on plug systems. Also, I eliminated fuel as core problem because I had my wife spray starter fluid in the air box and tried to start it.
Anyway, I put in the new crank sensor...did not start.
Just for giggles (although I am not laughing much), I tried starter fluid while she turned the key. It sputtered, crackled and coughed like it wanted to start...but would not start.
I have overhauled many vehicles in the past, but have not so much as changed a spark plug in in the last 15years. Getting very frustrating.
If it make's you feel better... It's my fault for not double checking with you. But I was picking up where you left off the diag and I thought you didn't have spark.. That is my first lines to anyone with a no start.. "Have you checked for fuel or spark".. Hey, it's ok!!!Now that we know that it did try to start now we can start moving up the fuel chart... Ok so now you will need to either reach up around to the top of the tank and see if the pump has 12v and ground.. And if it does then you will need to drop the tank to replace it.. Here's a little hint.. If it's the pump, beat on the bottom of the tank and see if you hear it come on.. I do it all the time just to get the vehicle in from where the rollback dropped it behind our shop to my rack.
before I do that, a couple thoughts.
1- I checked the fuel bleed valve on the injectors at the engine...It has pressure in it. Shouldn't that mean the pump it working
2- I can hear what I thought was the pump under the hood when the key is turned.
2- shouldn't it have run, even a little on the starter fluid?
perhaps I am thinking the worst, like timing chain/belt slip.
Not if it could make what sounds like an attempted start on compression. It really pinged and danced like it was trying to start. but did not Run. Not even for a couple seconds.
Can I poor gas in the butterfly? I have the breather off.
I feel like I am starting over.....crap!
When the truck stopped...I tried repeatedly to get it to start...9 times nothing, one time it started and ran but tried to die at idle. I kept it running with some throttle for a half a minute or so. then it dies and has never done that again.
while checking fuses, battery, using inline spark tool, and spraying fuel in the carb, I have attempted to start it 50 times with ZERO attempted start noises.
Now after changing the crank sensor, it "sputtered". A loud rough pinging sputter, only with the starting fluid spray.
plug is dry.
tank appears to have two wires and a breather coming out of it.
I banged on it with a hammer...did you say I should be able to "hear the pump"....easily?
I can't hear it running, but my hearing is not the best.
If I have fuel at the bleed valve on the engine, shouldn't the pump be working?
I hit the bleed at the fuel rail yesterday and it had pressure. I hit the bleed earlier today, and it had pressure. I hit it just now and it has nothing. And I no longer hear noise under the hood like I used to hear when I turned the key.
There is NO spark at the plug.
I hope your Monday is going better than mine!
So now we have no spark and no fuel.. Is the battery still fully charged? Can you remove the ASD relay and tell me if the Pins 30 and 85 has 12v from the fuse 2. Now see if pin 86 has ground from the PCM..Let me know,Brad
relay #57, engine control relay/asd ?
Here is a pic:Brad
30 and 85 are hot
86 to battery does not register anything do I need to measure to the pcm?
You want me to take all the connections off of the fuse box and check them.
Before I do that lets check the wire to the pcm while it is still connected. what plug and pin is it on in the pcm?
To check the ASD control wire, you will need to locate the Gray connector at the PCM and remove it and locate pin 12 Dark Green/Orange.. the plug it back in and see if it is sending out 12v.
I have gotten lost here.
currently I have the tipm and the battery disconnected. I thought I was looking for a wire to test from the tipm to the pcm for ground?
Well let's check both:
See if the Dark green/Orange has 12v when key on..
See if pin 11 has a ground when you start it..Let me know,Brad
I have removed the connections on the tipm, they look fine to me. I have sprayed them with electronics cleaner. I am ready to test the wire from the tipm to the pcm. I do not know what wire to test. I am assuming I am doing an ohm check on the wire since the tipm is dismantled.
I cannot include images....that is why the message crashed
Ok now here is the TIPM and PCM connections.. TIPM:
Find Pin 11 at TIPM and ohm it to the PCM here:
Find pin 3 which is Dark blue and yellow and ohm that wire.. If less then 5 ohms it's good.. If good then hook it up and turn key on and see if you have ground at tipm.. To test ground clip test light to positive battery post and probe the wire..Let me know,Brad
there are 3 26 pin connectors at the blue grey and green. can you tell me which one it is?
only the blue connector at the fuse box has an 11 pin in it. grey and green are blank in that spot. are you sure the c7 is not the blue one?
Hi Darrin,I went and got a picture..Pin 3 should be Dark Blue/Yellow..Brad
OK...tested fine I am guessing that the c7 picture is backwards (like from the wire side) but I took off the boot and the wire was blue with a yellow stripe.
the next test I do not understand you..
do you want me to put tpim back together then do the test?
trim plastic coating back where?
I do not see a ground connection anywhere on this thing. I took a bolt off that had two positive cables attaching to the box. I just assumed the ground side all came from the wireing harness
tipm is back together. On the tipm there are two red wires going to a bolt. the wires come from the pos battery, and the alternator. I do not see a ground wire on the tipm.