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2000 Dodge Stratus wont start. It cranks over, it has spark.

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2000 Dodge Stratus won't start...
2000 Dodge Stratus won't start. It cranks over, it has spark. I tested the fuel line by opening the service port valve and fuel pressured out. maybe the fuel injectors are not working? help!
Submitted: 7 years ago.Category: Dodge
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Expert: Tim Mohr, ASE MASTER TECH replied 7 years ago
Tim Mohr, ASE MASTER TECH
Category: Dodge
Satisfied Customers: 15926
Experience: 30 YRS EXPERIENCE, FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC, GAS AND DEISEL
hi, my name is XXXXX XXXXX may have fuel to the rail, but you need to check the pressure, it must be above 49 psi, if not then replace the pump,Tim
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Customer reply replied 7 years ago
Is it possible the fuel injectors are not working and getting spark? If so would it be the ECU? I noticed the ECU is not fastened down. I tried, but the bolt won't turn anymore. Does this car's ECU need to be grounded?
Expert: Tim Mohr, ASE MASTER TECH replied 7 years ago
the ecu is grounded by wires that run to it, not by the chassis, if you have spark, then the ecu is probably not the problem, do you have a test lite? we can check a few things?
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Customer reply replied 7 years ago

I just got back from doing some tests on the car. I checked the injectors with my stethiscope and there's no clicking sound. I sprayed starting fluid in the intake and the engine runs fine until the starter fluid runs out. Clearly the injectors are not operating. I also looked for a fuse for the injectors and the closest fuse I could find was for the ignition. I traced the wires from the injectors back to the ECU. Should I just replace the ECU?

Expert: Tim Mohr, ASE MASTER TECH replied 7 years ago
Do you have 12 volts to the injectors?
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Customer reply replied 7 years ago
I bought a 12v led light to test for voltage and the first thing I did was to find out which lead was the + side by using a ohm meter to the positive side of the battery with the ignition on. Both leads did not register.
Expert: Tim Mohr, ASE MASTER TECH replied 7 years ago
if there is not 12 volts at the green/orange wire at the injector, then you need to check for power at the auto shutdown relay, it should have 12 volts at 2 terms, with the key on, can you do this?
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Customer reply replied 7 years ago
I checked for voltage at the injector terminal with the key on and there is none. Where is the auto shutdown relay and what does it look like? Could this be hooked into the Viper alarm? The owner of this car was having starting problems before as well.
Expert: Tim Mohr, ASE MASTER TECH replied 7 years ago
It is in the relay box, by the air cleaner, under the hood, i will post a diagram of it below, switch this relay with the fan relay above it and see if it sterts,Tim
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Expert: Tim Mohr, ASE MASTER TECH replied 7 years ago
graphic
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Customer reply replied 7 years ago
Okay Tim, I did the test of switching the relays with no results. I totally uninstalled the aftermarket (Viper) alarm system thinking that may be the problem with no results as well. Do you have any other suggestions? Oh, The way I'm testing the injector plug for voltage is using the ground side of the battery to one of the two wires with the ignition switch on. Is that right?
Expert: Tim Mohr, ASE MASTER TECH replied 7 years ago
yES, THAT IS THE CORRECT PROCEDURE, NOW YOU MUST REMOVE THE RELAY AND CHECK FOR PORWER ON THE TERMINALS, THERE SHOULD BE 12 VOLTS ON 2 OF THE TERMS, WITH THE KEY ON, CAN YOU DO THIS?
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Customer reply replied 7 years ago
Okay, I'll do that next. What if there's no power?
Expert: Tim Mohr, ASE MASTER TECH replied 7 years ago
then we need to check fuses, let me know if there is power on 2 terms, with the key on,Tim
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Customer reply replied 7 years ago
Okay, will do. Where are you located so I know the time zone. Right now it's 9:07 am over here.
Expert: Tim Mohr, ASE MASTER TECH replied 7 years ago
i'm in colorado, its 1 pm here
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Customer reply replied 7 years ago
So you're 4 hours ahead. I'll get the reading off the car in about an hour or so. The car is about 15 minutes away.
Customer reply replied 7 years ago
There are 12V to 2 terminals.
Expert: Tim Mohr, ASE MASTER TECH replied 7 years ago
does the relay click when the key is turned on?
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Customer reply replied 7 years ago
Okay, I'll check. What if it does or doesn't because I have to drive 15 min. each way to get to the car. Thanks
Expert: Tim Mohr, ASE MASTER TECH replied 7 years ago

If it has pwer, but doesnt click, and you have swapped the relay with a known good relay, then its either a bad ecm, a bad trigger wire from the ecm, or you have lost power or ground to the ecm,Tim

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Customer reply replied 7 years ago
The relay does make a clicking sound when the ignition is turned on. I did a fuel pressure test today as well. My gauge only read 10 lbs while cranking. I have to test my gauge on another car to be sure my gauge is working properly. I retested the injectors with my stethistope and volt meter and came to the same result of no clicking noise or voltage. Man, what's wrong with this car? It runs fine on starter fluid!
Expert: Tim Mohr, ASE MASTER TECH replied 7 years ago
SO, the relay is clicking, if it is , then its working, and you are positive there is no voltage at the injectors?
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Customer reply replied 7 years ago
What are you saying--does that mean a breach between the relay and injectors? I was planning on unravelling the wiring harness today to physically trace the injector wires to their source.
Expert: Tim Mohr, ASE MASTER TECH replied 7 years ago
if the relay is working and putting out power to the injectors, but there is no voltage at the injectors, then it has to be a bad wire inbetween the relay and the injectors,Tim
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Customer reply replied 7 years ago
The positive wire?
Expert: Tim Mohr, ASE MASTER TECH replied 7 years ago
the dark green/orange wire should have 12 volts when the key is on, if it does, then trace that wire back to find the break,Tim
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Customer reply replied 7 years ago
So, if the relay is working it should send 12V to the injectors?
Expert: Tim Mohr, ASE MASTER TECH replied 7 years ago
Yes, on the dark green/orange wire,Tim
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Customer reply replied 7 years ago
Okay, I'll report back in a couple of hours . . . gotta pack my lunch and cooler for the trip.
Customer reply replied 7 years ago
From what I understand, injectors are fed the positive wire and the negative wire pulsates. Is this correct and if so is there 1 positive wire coming out of the relay to feed all 4 injectors. Finally, can I route my own positive wire from the relay to the injectors?
Expert: Tim Mohr, ASE MASTER TECH replied 7 years ago
Yes that is correct, but that wire feeds several inputs, like the coil, so you must find the break in the wire, if you wire it directly to the injectors, we still wont have power to the other systems,Tim
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Customer reply replied 7 years ago
I didn't get to the car yesterday because things came up, but I'm headed out soon. I'll email you when I get back with the results.
Customer reply replied 7 years ago
There is no break in the + wire between the injectors and the relay. I used an ohm meter. That leads me to think that the negative pulse is what's wrong. Is there a trigger that the computer relies on to send the negative pulse? Like a crank angle/cam angle sensor that the coils go by?
Expert: Tim Mohr, ASE MASTER TECH replied 7 years ago
But you said you didnt have 12 volts at the injector, is this true???
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Customer reply replied 7 years ago
There is no 12v at the plug for the injectors when the key's on. I know the wire from the relay to the injectors is not severed. I tested with an ohm meter. What puzzles me is there is 2 hot lines going into the relay; the relay clicks when you turn the key on, but there is no 12v at the injector plug. I was thinking maybe there's a trigger somewhere on the crank or cam that might be bad and that's why the computer is not sending the pulse.
Expert: Tim Mohr, ASE MASTER TECH replied 7 years ago
the computer does not send the 12 volts to the injectors, the computer grounds the injectors to fire them, so if you dont have 12 volts when you are cranking, then it has to be in the relay or the wire, Have you checked the the connector when cranking?
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Customer reply replied 7 years ago
No I haven't check the connector at the injector end for 12v while cranking, but I will. Have you gave some thought to a crank/cam angle sensor problem? This email method does take alot of time. Can we communicate via phone while I'm at the car? If so, my number is XXXXX oh eight - three zero six - two seven six one. Thanks. Tom.
Expert: Tim Mohr, ASE MASTER TECH replied 7 years ago
Sorry Tom, we are not allowed to phone you, it could be in the crank sensor, but first we need to get 12 volts to the injectors, check again for 12 volts to the injector when cranking,Tim
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Customer reply replied 7 years ago
I figured that, hence the alpha phone #. Okay, I'll check that and get back with you . . .
Expert: Tim Mohr, ASE MASTER TECH replied 7 years ago
let me know,tim
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Customer reply replied 7 years ago

Tim,

I removed the cam angle sensor and compared resistance with a new one and the readings were very different, so I went ahead and changed the part. Well, now the injectors are working!

 

I also had my fuel pressure tester hooked up and now it reads 0 lbs. I can hear the fuel pump come on and it sounds normal. I can't see a fuel pressure regulator on the fuel rail. There is only one line going to the fuel rail . . . no return line.

1). Does this car have the regulator at the fuel pump?

2). If so, is that regular part of the fuel pump (do I need to change the whole thing)?

 

Thanks,

Tom.

3). Do I have to drop the fuel tank in order to change the pump?

 

Expert: Tim Mohr, ASE MASTER TECH replied 7 years ago
If you dont have fuel pressure, and the pumps running, then you have a bad fuel pump, and yes, the fuel tank must come out to replace the pump assembly,Tim
Tim Mohr
Tim Mohr, ASE MASTER TECH
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Customer reply replied 7 years ago

Tim,

I changed the fuel pump and . . . bam! Car starts and runs fine.

 

I thank you for you expert help. I will definitely put in a good word.

Tom.

Expert: Tim Mohr, ASE MASTER TECH replied 7 years ago
Anytime my friend,Tim
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