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The transmission on my 544E is slipping. Model 544E Serial #

Customer Question
The transmission on my...

The transmission on my 544E is slipping

Mechanic's Assistant: What is the complete model and serial number of your machine?

Model 544E Serial # 536044

Mechanic's Assistant: Are you fixing this yourself? What have you tried so far?

I would like to fix it myself if i could because i am in a rural area. I have done a a bit of trouble shooting of the cut-off clutch because that is what it acts like. It seems like it doesn't slip when it first starts and i put the brakes on to create a load but then it slips. the transmission has enough fluid according to the level stick. I have purchased the John Deere technical manuals.

Mechanic's Assistant: Sometimes things that you think will be really complicated end up being easy to fix. The Heavy Equipment Mechanic I'm going to connect you with knows all the tricks and shortcuts.

Yes either you start at the problem or end up at it.

Mechanic's Assistant: Anything else you want the Agriculture Mechanic to know before I connect you?

Not that i can think of.

Submitted: 2 years ago.Category: Construction and Road Equipment
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Answered in 26 minutes by:
5/22/2020
Mechanic: Dan, Technician replied 2 years ago
Dan
Dan, Technician
Category: Construction and Road Equipment
Satisfied Customers: 14,651
Experience: 17+ yrs. shop and field experience with all major brands of heavy equipment and trucks - 1995 WyoTech graduate.
Verified

Hi, My name is***** will be glad to help. We can follow up as needed on here, Give me some time to review your information and follow up with my responses. Professionals are not employees of the site but users of the site and help on here as time allows in between jobs, family, etc. Response time can vary depending on my work load each day but I will always respond back on my next available login. Feel free to respond back at anytime if for any reason we seem to get separated, for status, etc.

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Mechanic: Dan, Technician replied 2 years ago

If you are experiencing slipping within the transmission, the first thing I recommend doing is checking the oil condition to see if the smells burnt or is dark and discolored looking burnt. Check your filters and oil for any metal or debris as well as any friction material. If any of this is found, you are looking at a tear down and bench service for a rebuild of this transmission. If this is clean however, I also recommend testing your pressures and confirming they are within OEM specs. It's a pleasure to help anyway I can.

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Customer reply replied 2 years ago
am i going to get an answer from Just Answer? So far this isn't working for me.
Customer reply replied 2 years ago
the oil is clean and does not smell burnt. Why was I charged $26 but I never talked to an expert.
Mechanic: Dan, Technician replied 2 years ago

Hi, I just got back . Professionals are not employees of the site but uses of the site like yourself. I'm not available for phone calls but we can follow up as needed on here. That does not mean that some other professional on the site will not accept your call offer. If no one except your call offer, the site will credit it back. A professional has to actually accept your phone call request otherwise your deposit for the call just sits with the site until the call offer is either accepted or expires. So back to your transmission. I also mentioned to check for any signs of metal or debris as well as friction material from your friction discs within your transmission filter and the suction screen at the bottom of the sump. If all this is clean, the next step would be to have your pressures tested for your transmission and confirmed to OEM specifications. If you can get the transmission model information off of the transmission ID tag to determine whether it is a ZF transmission and what ZF transmission model it is, I may just have the service book available to help you out with some pressure test specification and information. It's a pleasure to help anyway I can. If you test your pressures and have pressures dropping off in any particular gear positions, it's an indication of internal leakage within your transmission or a particular clutch confirming for disassembly for rebuild of the transmission.

Also, It seems you might not have seem my full response back at 4:07 PM. Here it is again.

Me

If you are experiencing slipping within the transmission, the first thing I recommend doing is checking the oil condition to see if the smells burnt or is dark and discolored looking burnt. Check your filters and oil for any metal or debris as well as any friction material. If any of this is found, you are looking at a tear down and bench service for a rebuild of this transmission. If this is clean however, I also recommend testing your pressures and confirming they are within OEM specs. It's a pleasure to help anyway I can.

22 May 2020, 4:07 PM

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Customer reply replied 2 years ago
Dan that is why I wanted t talk to you on the phone for an interactive conversation. My credit card was charged for it.
Mechanic: Dan, Technician replied 2 years ago
The website handles all billing inquiries. Professionals are not employees of the site but uses of the site like yourself. I am not available for a phone call. I never implied or told anybody that I was available for a phone call. The website Auto generates those requests. This does not mean that another professional may or may not be available for that request. Unfortunately I am not available to stay on the phone with customers for a play-by-play as I have a heavy equipment repair business and field service truck which pays full shop rate and mileage and when I'm home I am usually with family. I help out on here as time allows. You can either wait to see if another professional is interested in accepting your call offer or you can have the website credit back your phone call if no one picks it up or accepts it. I understand that you are interested in talking to somebody on the phone additionally but I am not available for that.
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Customer reply replied 2 years ago
Dan, I too am busy I thought I was going to speak to someone right away instead of waiting for someone to respond, this is the first tme i have used this service. I don't think it is the transmission itself but part of the control system such as the clutch cut-off, which I assume you are familiar with. I used the option moving snow piles and shortly after is when I noticed the power loss maybe even towards the end of moving the snow. I have gone through the John Deere 2 manuals from John Deere I have and I have identified the location of the clutch cut-off solenoid. According to the manual in the cut-off position the pressure should be 2350 psi at the cut-off valve. I don't have gauges. I have disconnected the line hat comes out of the solenoid block and plugged the block and capped the hose but after a short time of running the loader back and forth about 10 feet the loader does not want to move even with increased engine rpms.
Mechanic: Dan, Technician replied 2 years ago

That would be what I referred to as the transmission neutralizer circuit which allows you to take the transmission into neutral when working in tight quarters such as loading trucks or around buildings. Usually your left brake pedal when that function is engaged will disable the transmission or neutralize it as well as the button on your bucket controls. If I am not mistaking there should be a switch in the operator's cab to disable that function. It should look like a gear with a driveline symbol in the center of it. Try switching off that function and see if this comes out of it. You should also have a fuse for that function as well that you could potentially remove. Otherwise, I would recommend having your precious tested because this function is not stuck engaged for some reason, your symptoms point towards excessive internal leakage potentially within your converter and other internal problems with transmission that verifying your actual pressures would help determine. You can buy a pressure gauge at any hydraulic hose and fitting store for around $15-$30 a liquid filled gauge. Go with double the pressure you will be testing for the most accuracy in each gauge. You would just need to pick up some adapter fittings to adapt the gauges to the test ports and tee into your lines depending on what you are testing.

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Customer reply replied 2 years ago
if it is the clutch cut-off circiut why wouldn't taking off the line that goes from the solenoid block off, capping it and plugging the block override, eliminate the clutch cut-off feature. I am aware of what the clutch cut-off function does when engaged by the left brake when the feature is switched on. I thought by plugging and capping the hydraulic control line circuit to the clutch cut-off valve that would eliminate the feature.
Mechanic: Dan, Technician replied 2 years ago
Sounds like you got it under control. If you run into any other trouble, please respond back with the results of the testing and troubleshooting that I suggested so I can analyze that information and data to reach a conclusion towards a diagnosis.
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Customer reply replied 2 years ago
The reason I am asking for assistance is because I have taken the cut-off clutch solenoid control hydraulics out of the system but after running the loader a short time in forward and reverse the cut-off clutch, or something else, is making the loader feel like the clutch is slipping or disengaging. I am trying to trouble shoot this to narrow down the repairs needed. If it something I can do I will instead of bringing the machine to a shop. Are you familiar with the cut-off valve? That it would work to begin with but then after a short time of running it would activate itself? There appears to be a bleeder screw on the outside of the cut-off valve body.
Mechanic: Dan, Technician replied 2 years ago
I was a lead technician at Nortrax John Deere, I was also field service for Caterpillar after that, previous to both of those I worked for a Komatsu and Volvo dealer. When troubleshooting a transmission or hydraulic system I never assume as it could cause a lot of wasted time getting stuck in a particular area that might even be not even close to where the problem exists. Have you actually removed the suction screen out of the bottom of that transmission stamped and inspected it as well as cut open your transmission filters then squeezed the excess oil out in a vise and afterwards opened up a decent-sized section after cutting in and out with a utility knife to look for metal or debris as well as any sign of friction material in the filter media? These are all things that I would do when troubleshooting as well as the next step if there is no clutch or friction material and metal in either, and you then have the insurance that no mechanical failure is occurring at least as far as anything to the extent that it's producing metal. That still doesn't mean that there couldn't be a blown seal within a clutch pack or else where that is causing internal leakage within the transmission. This is where the pressure testing comes in so you can see if the pressures are dropping off in any particular gear position and also see if you have full circuit pressure. I troubleshoot a different way than the way you are tackling this problem. I would check that suction screen and open up the transmission filter and cut out a decent-sized sample. I would also check the drive damper between the engine and transmission torque converter. If the drive damper is slipping under a load this could be all of your problem if you are not finding any signs of mechanical failure with the transmission
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Mechanic: Dan, Technician replied 2 years ago
If you look at the fitting coming out of the control valve I believe number 5 that is a check valve.. it should only allow fluid to pass one way.. you can also inspect those valves for any type of scoring or damage as well as any debris that would cause them to stick or malfunction.
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Mechanic: Dan, Technician replied 2 years ago
On these models I have caught them in time where the charge pump and converter has failed confirmed with all the checks that I have just mentioned as well as doing a pressure test.as long as there's no excessive metal or friction material indicating that the clutches are starting to come apart, sometimes you can give the transmission a new heart or pump as well as a reman torque converter... This will restore lost pressure. If the d concert valve is not sticking and you were already eliminated that but you are still slipping in a stall, make sure that that drive damper that's in your flywheel is not slipping. The center of that hub can slip if the rubber were starting to deteriorate inside it.
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Customer reply replied 2 years ago
Dan, I would guess I eliminated the possibility of the check valve not working because I removed the hydraulic line from the pressure regulating valve block and plugged the block with a 7/16X20 bolt and capped the line with a 7/16X20 nut with a 7/16X20 bolt in it. That should have eliminated the cut-off hydraulic circuit unless there could be some ports inside the blocks that are sticking to back-feed pressure into the cut-off circuit. I will consider pulling the screen off of the transmission. But I am considering delegating this to a mechanic if it is not something I am comfortable doing. I suppose you can't give a recommendation for a mechanic we have a Deere Dealer up in Duluth MN. Any idea what I could be looking at for costs? Do I have to get it to them or is this something that can be done at my location?
Mechanic: Dan, Technician replied 2 years ago

Thanks for the update. This would depend on the tech. I have done a converter and pump on these at a customers shop but I have a crane on my service truck. The engine covers and hydraulic tank has to be removed to access the converter and drive damper for disassembly but the transmission does not have to be removed to do it. You can work from where the hydraulic tank currently exists. If the control valve is okay and it is a pump and converter problem, I ended up doing the trans charge pump, reman converter, and hydraulic pump for around 11 to 12 K parts and labor if I remember correctly. Depend where you source your parts as I was able to keep some costs down sourcing parts outside of the dealer.

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Customer reply replied 2 years ago
I bought the loader from the City of Willow River a year ago, paid too much because it looked clean, I have not even run a half tank of fuel through it. It shows about 9433 hours on it, it had 9407 on it when I got it. Should these symptoms have been apparent when they had it? I sure haven't abused it. I drove it less than 5 miles to my place from the city when I bought it. I was planning on getting lots of moderate work service out of it. I have a Bobcat 2410 articulated loader that I bought used that I have used for 20 years without, knock on wood, any major repairs. I will think about checking the screen and filter but it seems to make sense to line up a technician before I do too much to it.
Mechanic: Dan, Technician replied 2 years ago
It's likely that these symptoms would have existed when they had it but it would be hard saying because things can happen at any time unfortunately. the torque converter from Deere is around 3 Grand but you can get them aftermarket for 2500 or less for a reman elsewhere through a ZF transmission supplier. Same with the pump for the transmission and other parts. http://www.gopnh.com/Industrial-Torque-Converters-Type.cfm?Manu=John+Deere&Type=Loader
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Customer reply replied 2 years ago
I took the filter off and sliced it open to get the paper filter out and had a local Cat tech look at it. He said the oil smelled a little burnt but he had seen a lot worse. He checked the filter to see if any clutch material was blocking it but he thought the filter looked okay. I drained the transmission, took the sump tube/strainer out and examined the oil. I could not find any metal or foreign materials in the oil. The amount of oil in the transmission was less than what was shown in the capacities specs. but it showed that it was full according to the dip stick. When I get the new filter and fill it I will keep track of the amount of fluid I put in. One would think the stick would be accurate but who knows. I would think the amount of oil that is in the specs should supersede the marks on the stick.
Mechanic: Dan, Technician replied 2 years ago
Thanks for the update. If you have confirmed no problems with that control valve and can possibly get some test gauges on this thing to see where your actual pressures are which would determine whether or not you need to go with a converter and pump or take a close look at the control valve and control valves bulls as the next step.
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Customer reply replied 2 years ago
I got a Wicks filter from O'rielly's filled the transmission to 2.5 gallons, 10 quarts, according to the manuals, of O'rielly's 303 tractor hydraulic fluid because they said it would match the John Deere specs. When I drained out the old fluid there was about7 quarts in it. I can start the loader and move it back and forth 8 feet for about 3 or 4 times then it slowly loses its power. I shut it of for about the count of 20 and when I restart it it does the same thing. okay power then it drops off. Restart it it moves back and forth then hardly moves. Is there a pressure control that is not working/unloading?
Mechanic: Dan, Technician replied 2 years ago

The only disconnect that should be would be the transmission neutralizer circuit that is supposed to disengage the transmission when loading trucks are working in tight quarters if you were to push the left-hand brake pedal. You should be able to disable that function if I am not mistaken. Usually there is a switch in the cab that has a gear symbol with a driveshaft disconnect sign in the middle. It sounds like you already eliminated that out of the equation. I think it's time to see what you're transmission pressures are actually doing.

This should be a ZF transmission. There will be likely a steel tag with the ZF transmission model information on it.

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Customer reply replied 2 years ago
Dan I am trying to get someone, who is local, over to do the pressure tests as you suggested. It is time to delegate that out. I am an electrical contractor by trade but I have spent more time in my shop rebuilding/building things than most people. Social distancing is not hard for me. With that THANK YOU for hanging in there with me on this. What is the best way to finalize this chat/interaction?
Mechanic: Dan, Technician replied 2 years ago

Thank you for the update and you are very welcome. It has been a pleasure working with you on this. I believe there should be a place where you can leave your feedback and the site handles the rest.

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Dan, Technician
Category: Construction and Road Equipment
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