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Happy new year. Back again, I had some emails last winter…

hello Happy new year . Back again...
hello
Happy new year .
Back again, I had some emails last winter about mu cat th 360b that has a shifting problem.
Is has been working ok for some months now. Now and runnning and stopping. But now, really difficult to get to shift. I have been looking at mutch of the wiring to se if i can find some broken/grounded wires. Cant see any :( But. I have been looking at the electric diagram. Where do i find the switch called "std shft neutralizer"?
I should like to se if it is something wrong with that one.
I attach an print from the el schema with item in the middle.Jørn.
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Answered in 5 hours by:
1/4/2020
Mechanic: catmastertech, Technician replied 2 years ago
catmastertech
catmastertech, Technician
Category: Construction and Road Equipment
Satisfied Customers: 3,994
Experience: Field service technician for CAT 19 years.
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The part number for the switch you identified is part of a manual shift transmission option that I have never seen in my area. Attached below is the location of the parts of the same switch.

I hope this helps. If not, post the complete machine serial number with your reply.

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Customer reply replied 2 years ago
Ok, but it doesent make sense to me. I think the electric schema i did find that part on is for "my" cat with and 4 speeed transmission operated with an lever under the steering wheel and converter etc for the gears ..
I enclose an picture with the serialnumber on it.
To me it seems like there is an problem with the circiut that is neutralizing the shifts when the parkingbrake is engaged or the lever up at the left side is put "on" so braking also neutralize the shifts.
Mechanic: catmastertech, Technician replied 2 years ago

Thanks for that info.

Your machine serail number SLE03738 has a CP506830 transmission serial number that is a(###) ###-####transmission arrangement number and that is a 4-SPEED POWERSYNCRO transmission. This is a four-speed gearbox that is shifted with electro-hydraulic controls on the shift rails and controlled by an ECM with the shift lever that rotates to select each speed.
The optional four-speed manual shift is referred to as a power shuttle transmission and an optional 5 speed fully automatic transmission was called the powershift transmission.
These naming schemes are similar to the loader backhoe machines.

I believe you are looking for either the transmission neutralizer override switch or the service brake pressure switch. The override switch turns off the brake pedal neutralizer so the transmission will remain engaged when the brake pedal is pressed enough to trigger the pressure switch and disengage the transmission.

It is also called, Transmission Neutralizer Control - This is a two-position switch if equipped. Push the top of the switch in order for the transmission neutralizer to be operational. A lamp inside the switch will be illuminated. The transmission will be neutralized whenever the service brake is applied. Push the bottom of switch in order for the transmission to remain engaged whenever the service brake is applied.

You may also have, Auto/Manual Switch (If Equipped) (Bottom left of dash switches)

Auto/Manual Switch - This is a two-position switch. If your machine is equipped with the Powersynchro transmission, this switch is an option on your machine. Push the left side of the switch in order to select automatic shifting between the gears of the transmission. The operator will select the highest speed range and the machine ECM will automatically shift the transmission between the lowest gears to the highest gear that has been selected, based on the ground speed of the machine. A lamp inside the switch will be illuminated. Push the right side of the switch in order to manually select a specific speed gear.

Your schematic should show all the options used on these machines. You will just need to ignore the ones you don't have and follow on the circuits your machine uses.

Attached below are some of these items referenced above.

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Customer reply replied 2 years ago
thank you.
I have got only this one so far as I can se "Transmission Neutralizer Control" And that one is working perfect all the time the maschine is working. The transmission is perfectly disengaged when and if the brake is operated and this switch is either on or off.
But, I have to look up "deeper" into the Transmission Neutralizing am I afraid of. The digital gear indicator at the instrument is turning to "N" when this system is active so far as I can understand. And when cart is working correct that "N" is on and off correct when the brake or the park brake is operated. But, when the problem "occours" that same "N" is more or less constant on. Or "blinking" active. That makes me wonder if there is som valve or relay on the transmission that is the problem? How is this function controlled? Can I do anything to verify if and relay/valve or anything else is operating correct. I guess that maybe this "N" is "returned" as an signal from an switch that indicates when the transmission is disengaged? and that not is an signal that is "parallell" to the switch? Or do I have an faulty ECM for the transmission?
Mechanic: catmastertech, Technician replied 2 years ago

That is an interesting observation. I do know the letter does indicate when a neutralizer circuit is on or off to help the operator recognize the function is active but, I am not aware of it used as a fault indicator. However, the service manual book icon is the active/logged code indicator, and it is common to see it on when a fault is present. Your monitor has several functions.

Operation
The Machine Information Display System will operate in two modes. The modes are Normal Mode and Service Mode.

Normal Mode
In Normal Mode, the machine parameters are displayed on the Instrument Cluster (IC).

Service Mode
The function of Service Mode is to provide a list of service codes. The codes can be sent to a technician. Service Mode is not intended to be a troubleshooting device.

Power Up
The IC will initiate a hardware power-up sequence when it sees a transition from the OFF to the RUN on the key start switch input. The power-up sequence will include a self-test of the system. Please refer to the Self Test section of this manual for a description of this process.

Power Down
The IC and the ECM are wired to an unswitched battery circuit. The IC will begin the power down sequence when the key switch is turned OFF AND when there is no traffic over the CAN data link for four seconds. During the power-down, the IC will position the pointers at the minimum deflection and shut off. The service hour meter will remain on. The machine ECM will turn off after it has detected the key switch has been in the OFF position for ten seconds.

Diagnostics
The machine has a system clock for the time-stamping of diagnostic data. The diagnostic fault record has a record of the following items:

The number of times the fault occurred
The system clock time of the first failure
The time of the most recent failure
The diagnostic information is used to provide service personnel with information to help troubleshoot the system. The machine ECM will, on power-up, clear any logged diagnostic faults that have not been active within the last 100 hours.

Failure Modes
The following actions will occur for any failures:

For the hydraulic oil temperature circuit, the gauge will be driven to indicate the maximum temperature.
For the engine coolant temperature circuit, the gauge will be driven to indicate the maximum temperature.
For the torque converter temperature circuit, the gauge will be driven to indicate maximum temperature.
For the fuel sensor circuit, the gauge will be driven to indicate an empty tank.
The machine ECM will sense battery voltage internally.
For any failure of the engine speed sensor, the tachometer will be driven to indicate 0 rpm.
For any failure on the machine speed circuit, the display value will be driven to indicate 0 mph.
The Load Stability Indicator (LSI) will indicate the tipping of the machine.

Software
The display system is one of many subsystems contained in the machine ECM. The instrument cluster will have the software installed.

Below I will attach an image illustrating how to retrieve the fault codes.

Once you have recorded these codes, we can go through the list and see which are related to this problem.

Typically, the fault codes will scroll on the display in the order of the most recent first and the oldest last. Be sure to record all the digits in both windows for a complete record of the code.

The following is a list of mot fault codes this machine may have. (some may be different depending on the options)

Diagnostic Code List

Use the monitoring system or the Caterpillar Electronic Technician (Cat ET) to determine the diagnostic codes for the electronic control modules (ECM). After determining the diagnostic codes, refer to the corresponding test procedure for more information. Perform the procedure that corresponds to the Module Identifier (MID), the Component Identifier (CID), and the Failure Mode Identifier (FMI) of the diagnostic code.

Module Identifier (MID)

The module identifier (MID) identifies the electronic control module that detected the fault. Each electronic control module on the machine has a unique MID. Use the following chart in order to match the MID for each diagnostic code to a specific electronic control module. The chart for the Module Identifier (MID) is located on the Electrical System Schematic for your machine. See the chart if the MID is not shown on the display of your machine. After the operator determines the electronic control module that has detected the failure, see the service manual module for that particular ECM for more troubleshooting information. The service manual for each ECM is part of the machine's Service Manual.

Table 1

Description of the Module Identifier

MID Description

036 Engine ECM

082 Access Platform ECM

039 Machine ECM

117 Shift Lever ECM

Component Identifier (CID)

The following table is a list of possible diagnostic codes for the machine ECM.

Table 2

Diagnostic Codes For the Machine ECM

Module Identifier (MID 039) and Shift Lever ECM (MID 117) (1)

Perform the procedure that corresponds to the CID and the FMI of the diagnostic code during troubleshooting.

Component Identifier (CID) Component Description

0041 8V sensor supply

0070 Limit switch (parking brake)

0096 Sender (fuel level)

0110 Temperature sensor (engine coolant)

0168 System voltage

0177 Temperature sensor (transmission oil)

0191 Transmission Output Speed Sensor

0246 PHS CAN data link

0262 5V sensor supply

0271 Action alarm

0368 Rocker switch (autoshift)

0444 Relay (starter)

0489 Trigger switch (auxiliary) of joystick control

0490 Rocker switch (implement lockout)

0590 Engine ECM

0629 Switch (transmission neutralizer)

0668 Transmission control (shift lever)

0672 Torque Converter Output Speed Sensor

0702 Position sensor (shift lever)

0750 Switch (steering mode)

0811 Display module (instrument cluster)

0817 ECM (internal backup battery)

0826 Temperature sensor (torque converter oil)

0882 Solenoid valve (implement lockout)

1127 Position sensor (forward/backward lever) of the joystick control

1128 Position sensor (left and right) of the joystick control

1138 Boom Cylinder Rod Retract Solenoid

1187 Switch (continuous flow)

1189 Position switch (auxiliary hydraulics) (right thumb) of the joystick control

1193 Boom Cylinder Rod Extension Solenoid

1251 Alternator R terminal

1326 ECM Location Code

1401 Modulating valve (reverse)

1402 Modulating valve (forward)

1403 Modulating valve (No. 3)

1404 Modulating valve (No. 4)

1405 Modulating valve (No. 5)

1406 Modulating valve (No. 6)

1407 Modulating valve (No. 7)

1410 Modulating valve (transmission synchronization)

1482 10 volt PHS power supply

1529 Switch (quick coupler)

1603 Data Link

1639 Machine security system (MSS) ECM swap suspected

1658 Position sensor (left thumb lever) of the joystick control

1718 Mode select switch (implement fine modulation)

1740 Solenoid (crab steer)

1741 Solenoid (circle steer)

1763 Switch (operator station)

1788 Switch (right stabilizer)

1789 Switch (left stabilizer)

1820 Relay (auxiliary diverter valve)

1823 Position sensor (shift rail) (No. 1)

1824 Position sensor (shift rail) (No. 2)

1825 Position sensor (shift rail) (No. 3)

1826 Strain sensor (longitudinal stability)

1827 Longitudinal stability system

1828 Proximity switch (critical angle)

1829 Proximity switch (boom lower)

1830 Proximity switch (boom retract)

1831 Solenoid valve (rear axle lock)

1832 Pressure switch (right stabilizer)

1833 Pressure switch (left stabilizer)

1834 Key start switch

1845 PHS module 1

1846 PHS module 2

1847 (2) PHS module 3

1930 Relay (quick coupler)

1935 Select switch (aux hydraulic flow)

1960 ECM cannot communicate with the key reader

2101 PHS address line

2197 Limit switch (Boom extend)

2240 Tilt Cylinder Extend Solenoid

2241 Tilt Cylinder Retract Solenoid

2242 Loader Auxiliary Valve Solenoid #1

2243 Loader Auxiliary Valve Solenoid #2

2281 Boom Telescope Cylinder Extend Solenoid

2282 Boom Telescope Cylinder Retract Solenoid

2287 Left Stabilizer Cylinder Extend Solenoid

2288 Left Stabilizer Cylinder Retract Solenoid

2289 Right Stabilizer Cylinder Extend Solenoid

2290 Right Stabilizer Cylinder Retract Solenoid

2525 P-LS (Load Sense) Control Solenoid

2670 Stabilizer Flow Control Solenoid

( 1 ) For the Machine ECM, the MID is 039. For the Shift Lever ECM, the MID is 117. This table pertains only to codes with a MID 039 and MID 117.

( 2 ) This Diagnostic Code applies only to the following machines: SLA1-849, , SLB1-1499, , SLC1-849, , SLD1-1399, , SLE1-4499, , SLF1-2099, , SLG1-1299, , SLH1-899, , JRK1-UP

The following table is a list of possible diagnostic codes for the access panel ECM.

Table 3

Diagnostic Codes For the Access Panel ECM

Module Identifier (MID 082) (1)

Perform the procedure that corresponds to the CID and the FMI of the diagnostic code during troubleshooting.

Component Identifier (CID) Component Description

0271 Action alarm

0324 Action lamp

0337 Switch (emergency stop)

1125 Position sensor (handle control) (boom raise/lower)

1127 Position sensor (handle control) (platform rotate)

1763 Switch (operator station select)

1772 Switch (operator station lockout)

1879 Position sensor (handle control) (boom extend/retract)

( 1 ) For the Access Panel ECM, the MID is 082. This table pertains only to faults with a MID of 082.

Failure Mode Identifier (FMI)

The codes for the Failure Mode Identifier are defined by the SAE standards. The following list contains a CAT version of definitions. The diagram that follows will help you understand the use of FMI with sensors.

Table 4

Failure Mode Identifier and Message Center Displays

FMI "Failure Description"

00 "Data valid but above normal operating range"

01 "Data valid but below normal operating range"

02 "Data erratic, intermittent or incorrect"

03 "Voltage above normal or shorted high"

04 "Voltage below normal or shorted low"

05 "Current below normal or open circuit"

06 "Current above normal or grounded circuit"

07 "Mechanical system not responding properly"

08 "Abnormal frequency, pulse, or period"

09 "Abnormal update"

10 "Abnormal rate of change"

11 "Failure mode not identifiable"

12 "Bad device or component"

13 "Out of calibration"

14 N/A

15 N/A

16 "Parameter not available"

17 "Module not responding"

18 "Sensor supply fault"

19 "Condition not met"

20 N/A

Detailed FMI Explanation

FMI 00 "Data Valid But Above Normal Operating Range" - Every electronic control system sets a high limit for the expected operating range of the signal. This could be a high temperature. A sensor that is still operating but sending a signal above the expected limit will cause an FMI 00 to be stored.

Some of the possible causes of an FMI 00 are listed below.

The signal is above normal.

The signal is shorted to the +battery circuit.

The sensor needs to be calibrated.

This is an example of a sensor that needs calibration. A PWM signal that is at a duty cycle of 80 percent is a valid signal. If the PWM signal has a duty cycle of 81 percent, the sensor is still working, but the sensor signal is above the expected signal limits.

FMI 01 "Data Valid But Below Normal Operating Range" - Every electronic control system sets a low limit for the expected operating range of the signal. The limit includes signals that are under the lower limit. The low signal could be the oil pressure signal. The sensor is still working, but sending a signal below the expected limit will cause an FMI 01 to be stored.

Some of the possible causes of an FMI 01 are listed below.

The signal is below the normal range.

The timing is retarded.

This is an example of a PWM sensor. This sensor is not expected to generate a PWM signal below a duty cycle of 5 percent with zero air pressure. If the sensor generates a signal with a duty cycle of 4 percent when the engine is shutdown. The sensor is still working, but sending a signal below the expected limit will cause an FMI 01 to be stored.

FMI 02 "Data Erratic, Intermittent or Incorrect" - The signal from a component is present. The control that reads the diagnostic information can not read the signal properly. The signal appears to be gone, unstable, or invalid. The data can be correct or incorrect intermittently. Also, this condition relates to communication between controls. This is an example of communication between controls. When the monitoring system is looking for the engine speed from the engine ECM over the CAT data link.

There is a failed connection.

The signal is intermittent or erratic.

The software has been changed.

The signal is noisy.

The signal is out of range.

FMI 03 "Voltage Above Normal or Shorted High" - The component or system voltage is higher than the limit. FMI 03 most often relates to a signal circuit.

Some of the components that could cause an FMI 03 are listed below.

The sensor or the switch has failed.

The harness is damaged.

The electronic control module has failed.

Some of the possible causes of an FMI 03 are listed below.

A sensor that has failed and the voltage output is high.

Any wiring harness that has a sensor signal wire shorted to a high voltage. A high voltage is any voltage that is greater than the sensor supply voltage.

A wiring harness that has an open circuit in the sensor signal wire will cause the control to pull up. When this occurs the input circuit is pulled up to the supply voltage.

A control that has failed will also cause a FMI 03. This is very unlikely.

FMI 04 "The Voltage is Below Normal or the Voltage is Shorted Low" - The component or system voltage is lower than the limit. FMI 04 most often relates to a signal circuit.

Some of the components that could cause a FMI 04 are listed below.

The sensor or the switch has failed.

The harness is damaged.

The electronic control has failed.

Some of the possible causes of a FMI 04 are listed below.

A sensor that has failed and the voltage output is low.

Any wiring harness that has a sensor signal wire shorted to ground.

A failed ECM will also cause a FMI 04. This is very unlikely.

FMI 05 "Current Below Normal or Open Circuit" - The current through the component or the system is lower than the limit. FMI 05 is most often related to a driver circuit.

Some of the possible causes of a FMI 05 are listed below.

There is an open circuit or a poor harness connection.

There is an open relay.

There is a switch in the open position.

FMI 06 "Current Above Normal or Grounded Circuit" - The current through the component or the system is higher than the limit. FMI 06 is most often related to a driver circuit. This fault is very similar to FMI 04.

Some of the possible causes of a FMI 06 are listed below.

There is a short to ground in the harness connection.

There is a shorted relay.

A failed control will also cause a FMI "06". This is very unlikely.

FMI 07 "Mechanical System Not Responding Properly" - The control detects a signal that is sent to a mechanical system and the response is not correct.

Some of the possible causes of a FMI 07 are listed below.

The component responds improperly.

The component is stuck in a position.

The component has failed.

The engine is shut down.

The machine is being used improperly.

FMI 08 "Abnormal Frequency, Pulse Width or Period" - This occurs when the signal is not in the expected range. FMI 08 can also relate to a faulty sensor.

Some of the possible causes of a FMI 08 are listed below.

The harness connections are intermittent or poor.

The engine misfired.

The signal is noisy due to nearby interference.

There are loose mechanical devices.

FMI 09 "Abnormal Update" - This relates to communications on the data link. FMI 09 occurs when a control is not able to get information from another control.

Some of the possible causes of a FMI 09 are listed below.

The control module is not communicating on the data link correctly.

The rate of data transmission is abnormal.

The data link has failed.

There is a mismatch of software.

FMI 10 "Abnormal Rate of Change" - This relates to a signal that changes too fast. The rate of change is outside of the expected limit.

FMI 11 "Failure Mode Not Identifiable" - The control identifies more than one FMI as being responsible for a single failure.

Some of the possible causes of a FMI 11 are listed below.

There is a mechanical failure.

There is damage to multiple circuits.

FMI 12 "Bad Device or Component" - The electronic control sends a signal and the electronic control expects a response. The control receives no response or the response is incorrect.

Some of the possible causes of a FMI 12 are listed below.

There is a failure of the electronic control.

There is a failure on the data link.

There are one or more controls with mismatched software.

FMI 13 "Out of Calibration" - The electrical signal is not within limits for a specific mechanical condition.

Some of the possible causes of a FMI 13 are listed below.

Calibration is required.

The data is out of range.

FMI 14, 15, and 20 - These codes are not active.

FMI 16 "Parameter Not Available" - The control does not support the requested parameter.

FMI 17 "Module Not Responding" - The control does not respond to the request for data.

FMI 18 "Sensor Supply Failure" - The sensor power supply in the control has failed.

FMI 19 "Condition Not Met" - The conditions that are defined by the software were not met.

Please feel free to post the results of your testing, and I will be glad to help you work through this problem.

Thank you for using JustAnswer, if you do need further help, please let me know.

If you are satisfied with my service, please take a moment to provide a rating.

Thanks again, Don

CATMASTERTECH

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Customer reply replied 2 years ago
My observation was not from some fault codes .. What i do observe is that the shift lever indicator isn`t turning to 1,2,3 or 4 but remains in "N" when this occours.
The fault codes did i just read out and will now go through them. I can also send the video that shows them if you want to have to look at them.. https://share.icloud.com/photos/0Se8jVngBPmsDsBDK-jp-a6Ig
Mechanic: catmastertech, Technician replied 2 years ago

Sorry, I was not meaning the flashing "N" was a fault code, only that I have not seen it used as a fault code. I do not believe it is but, it could indicate a loose connection in one of the switches.

The video has still not uploaded. I will be glad to help more if you wish.

Please post the codes or try the video again.

Thanks, Don

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Customer reply replied 2 years ago
I will write them down. Where should i look for loose connections? Is this on the gearbox. I have been looking them over. The thing is that several other functions is unstabil to. Like the load indicator. That might of course bee in need of calibration.
Mechanic: catmastertech, Technician replied 2 years ago

The first thing I look for on these machines is harness damage in front of the engine where the ECM is mounted. It has a tendency to rub the wires against the frame and cause shorts. It is also common to find harness damage under the machine where the harness goes to the cab by the center of the frame.

The loose connections I would look for are the brake pressure switch, the neutralizer override switch, and the parking brake switch.

As far as the stability warning system is related, I don't have any experience with them as it is not a feature seen in the US. It may be related and maybe a fault code will point more to the exact problem. It is just one thing I have not worked on or have ever seen in my area.

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Customer reply replied 2 years ago
https://www.dropbox.com/s/rk7tn9xr9geqi3r/IMG_0459.MOV?dl=0Maybe this work?
Mechanic: catmastertech, Technician replied 2 years ago

Ok, I have pulled the list and I see none of the codes are showing the letter A at the beginning of the flash code, meaning that this is an intermittent problem.

With an intermittent issue like this, it will be difficult to catch the fault unless it remains active.

So, all we can do is base troubleshooting on the most recent codes.

Most of these appear to be related to testing while the power is still on the system. These codes are logged by having an open circuit with the key switch on.

If you have been disconnecting the transmission shift lever and the longitudinal stability systems with the key on, I would expect to see these codes. However, I don't think you would be disconnecting the alternator.

Have you checked the voltage output of the alternator? If the voltage is too high or too low, it can cause problems with the ECMs. This does not appear to be the issue here as I don't see other codes that would also be present when the alternator is bad.

All the other codes are far down the list and can be from any previous issue.

Unfortunately, you cannot erase these codes. Only CAT ET program can perform that procedure.

Try setting the display to the scroll mode and then operate the machine to see if you can repeat the problem and then see which code comes back with the letter "A" at the beginning of the code.

Here is a list of the code your machine has logged. (Don't worry about the engine code, older pumps will set this code)

(###) ###-####02 Transmission control (shift lever) Data erratic, intermittent or incorrect(###) ###-####13 Longitudinal stability system Out of calibration(###) ###-####08 Alternator R terminal Abnormal frequency, pulse, or period(###) ###-####09 Display module (instrument cluster)(###) ###-####05 Solenoid (crab steer) Current below normal or open circuit(###) ###-####05 Solenoid (circle steer) Current below normal or open circuit(###) ###-####03 Key start switch(###) ###-####02 Pressure switch (right stabilizer) Data erratic, intermittent or incorrect(###) ###-####02 Position sensor (forward/backward lever) of the joystick control Data erratic, intermittent or incorrect(###) ###-####02 Position sensor (left and right) of the joystick control Data erratic, intermittent or incorrect(###) ###-####08 Position sensor (left thumb lever) of the joystick control Abnormal frequency, pulse, or period(###) ###-####04 10 volt PHS power supply Voltage below normal or shorted low(###) ###-####04 Position sensor (shift rail) (No. 2) Voltage below normal or shorted low(###) ###-####02 Transmission Output Speed Sensor Data erratic, intermittent or incorrect(###) ###-####09 PHS module 1 Abnormal update(###) ###-####09 PHS module 2 Abnormal update(###) ###-####09 PHS module 3 Abnormal update(###) ###-####08 PHS address line Abnormal frequency, pulse, or period

Engine(###) ###-####12 Fuel Injection Pump failure Bad device or component

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Customer reply replied 2 years ago
Thanks. I havent checked the voltage when running, only the battery before start. But, wrong voltage is a thing i have been thinking about, but only controlled the earth connections. Will look for this tomorrow!
Jørn
Mechanic: catmastertech, Technician replied 2 years ago

Ok, great. Keep me posted on your progress. I will be away during the day but, I can reply when I get back home. I live in the Eastern US and try to be available after 7 PM most nights.

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Customer reply replied 2 years ago
Hi again. I live in Norway so we are a bit ahead of you at the east coast. Can i ask where? I have a little !"over there" The DC area and Florida. + NY. :) Today I did look where you said, and did find an damaged cable just where it turns around a corner on the way to the ECM that is located in front of the radiator. It was on of two twisted wires, guite tick. Guess it is for the CAN-bus? But repairing it did not help anything. And the voltgae on the batteries are 14,2 when engine is running. So, nothing helped. And cat don`t move at all now :( Is it some way to go around the "Transmission Neutralizer Control" (hotwire the system? ) And, some other places I should look for damages that is "normal" to find them? I think the parkbrake is working correct, the indicator lamp for it is at least working correct. Reading out the codes with the engine running is my next try. I did try today, but could not get it in that mode. It is a little difficult to hit it. I have an technichian i know to help me look for and reset the codes.
Mechanic: catmastertech, Technician replied 2 years ago

The twisted pairs are usually a CAN-BUS or the proprietary CDL network. Sometimes the are for speed sensors on the engine or transmission. You would have related codes if they have a problem.

The only one close was for the shift handle that was first on your list. The last machine I worked on had a shift handle problem but, if I remember correctly it had an active code for the handle.

They have been a regular problem with all models and more common on open cab machines.

The transmission control does not have any bypass or override controls, not even a limp-home mode like some other machines.

If you can get an active code, that would help point us to the issue. Otherwise, a call to a dealer or someone with a licensed version of CAT ET to see the codes and system parameters for testing.

I am halfway between NYC and Miami! Can't miss us if you travel the ocean highways! Old North State of NC.

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Customer reply replied 2 years ago
yesterday i did get through the codes with the machine running. None of them did have an A in front. I have been looking thorough some pages in manuals. Where is the "direction chlutch soelnoids" located? I guess they should have or should not have 12 volt to be activated? An can be tested if they are ok? I tried to locate them yesterday, but it startedto rain :( We should have had minus 15 celsius and snow now here!
Mechanic: catmastertech, Technician replied 2 years ago

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1yr9_Rx_-tmE7Rt9094MzMtQrKpcliqjh

Here is a link to the ECM outputs. The solenoids are controlled by the ECM and do not see system voltage. Never send full voltage to these solenoids or it will be damaged.

Transmission Control

Transmission Direction Control Lever
The transmission direction control lever contains two switch inputs that are connected to the battery and two switch inputs that are connected to ground. When the transmission direction control lever is in the forward position, the output for the forward direction is closed to ground and the output for the forward direction is closed to the battery. When the transmission direction control lever is not in the forward position both of the outputs are open. When the transmission direction control lever is in the reverse position, the output for the reverse direction is closed to ground and the output for the reverse direction is closed to the battery. When the transmission direction control lever is not in the reverse position both of the outputs are open. When the transmission direction control lever is in the neutral position, all four of the inputs should be open. The transmission direction control lever connects to the ECM through contacts J2-59, J2-60, J1-24, and J1-25.

Transmission Speed Selector
The speed and the direction of the machine are determined by the position of the transmission speed selector and the position of the speed selector. The transmission speed selector sends information about the requested speed to the machine ECM over the CAT data link.

Since you don't see an Active code, this could mean the control switches are holding the transmission in neutral as the ECM may see it calling for it to remain in neutral. Check the brake pressure switch and neutralizer switches and the park brake switch again to verify they are working and the wiring is not shorted.

Below are the wires for the outputs. NOTE, the colors are shown are not the wire colors. The color indicates use. Red for Battery, Blue for the key switch, Black for ground, and purple for system circuits.

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Customer reply replied 2 years ago
Thank you. I have now been looking at together with an tecnician today. We tried to sort out what is happening when. We were almost sure that the handbrake switch sholud be the problem. the cat suddenly did mowe today and we had been playing with that switch before that. So I ordered an new to change it. But, later tonight it stopped again. I did no try to "bypass" that switch. But, it did not work anyway. So i think i have to open connectors to se if I find something wrong. Is it often you find connectors with "broken" plugs/cables on them? I did se this problem and how to fix... Guess I will just try to put an wire from the switch and down to correct pin at the ecm. Will I see the different numbers at the connector easy? Or do I have to read on the cables. It looks like they are named some places? Think it will be connectors 52 and 53 i have to test? And also 58,59,60?
Try to morrow, if the weather lets me!
Looking forward to get the whole elec diagram printed in one piece. Most for fun, it will be BIG! A company Im working for is doing that sort of printing :)
Mechanic: catmastertech, Technician replied 2 years ago

Yes, disconnect the switches and check the wires for a short to ground. The install a jumper wire and read the ohms through both wires to see if the harness is good. Must be less than 5 ohms resistance and it is better to see less than 2 ohms.

A full size schematic can be over a square meter.

Don't forget to check 42 as well for the brake pressure switch.

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Customer reply replied 2 years ago
Hi. I did try to change the switch for the parking brake today. No sucess :( It is still the same problem and symptoms. I will now controll diffferent wires as we discussed before. One thinng is also that the shift lever has been a problem on this machines. We discussed that aa year ago. I said that i do belive mine is has been changed, 1. bc og it has been sold one that the an earleir owner should change himself, and 2. the parts number was the one you said was from later years.
Is it any way to control the function of this lever, and what was the problems that occoured when this part had to be changed?copy /paste from the earlier discission :27 February 2019 09:24
catmastertechcatmastertech Mechanic
Yep, I see about $850 USD here. I am not sure yours will use the same one for the EU version.
New number(###) ###-#### old number(###) ###-####
Mechanic: catmastertech, Technician replied 2 years ago

The shift lever is a data link to the ECM. It uses a data signal to send information to the ECM.

The speed and the direction of the machine are determined by the position of the transmission speed selector and the position of the speed selector. The transmission speed selector sends information about the requested speed to the machine ECM over the CAT data link.

If I remember correctly, it will cause a code when data is erratic or shorted.

The problems were usually, like your machine, no transmission control or no start.

You have the(###) ###-####02 Transmission control (shift lever) Data erratic, intermittent or incorrect code logged at the top of your list.

I do not know of anyway duplicate the data signal to simulate a shift function.

Could it be possible for you to take your handle and/or the ECM to a friend's machine and see if it works on a different machine? (it would be a lot of work but, could save some money)

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Customer reply replied 2 years ago
Thank you. I know about two other machines around here. Think i can ask if i could borrow the shift lever from one of them :)
Mechanic: catmastertech, Technician replied 2 years ago

Ok, but, it would be better to install your part on a working machine. If you can reach the connector, then all you need to do is to plug in your handle and see if it works.

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Customer reply replied 2 years ago
Ok, i did think about that as an way to verify my part to. Hope to get it to work againg... I might just bypass verything and make some switches to the solenoides at the transmission so everything goes like an old john deere :) This problem makes my Cat beeing just 10 tons of scrapmetal! And some other forums i found said that changing the lever is no help :(
I will try to test my piece on another machine this weekend i hope!
Mechanic: catmastertech, Technician replied 2 years ago

I agree they went overboard on too many electronic controls. I heard that this machine was being used as a trial testbed for new technology. It destroyed the reputation of the older models so much they had to buy JLG machines to have something to sell.

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Customer reply replied 2 years ago
jippi!! i am trying to find a way to get some polaks to steal it so i can get the insurance :D But, the problem is that they never take what you want them to take! :(
Mechanic: catmastertech, Technician replied 2 years ago

Put a for sale sign on it with an outrageous price then leave it out somewhere unattended. Maybe you will get lucky.

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Customer reply replied 2 years ago
hehehe.. jepp. But, guess they to will have problems mowing it!
Mechanic: catmastertech, Technician replied 2 years ago

A thief will find a way when they think they have something of value. You couldn't pay them enough to pick up a piece of trash though!

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Customer reply replied 2 years ago
hehehe.. yes, but I am afraid of that the thiefs know better thsn me tht they should stssy away from that cat! I had an 3 yrs old Toyota Van some years ago that i did put up for sale at a friend place the way you said. And, yes it was taken and exported. Guess they took it to some eastern state first , or they did export it to africa direct. Filled up with other stolen electronics,old fridges and things like that. It is amazing how that old vans increase in value when it leaves Norway and arrives africa. We sell them for like 1000 dollars here. There they pay 5000! And they go for the tpyotas bc they just go forever. You have to kill it to stop it :)
Mechanic: catmastertech, Technician replied 2 years ago

WOW, we should go into the export business!

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Customer reply replied 2 years ago
hi again. It says shifter and shuttle on the drawing. The shifter is the lever on the left side that we hve been talking about. The shutter is what? In need to know so i can this thing exported to somalia! :)
Customer reply replied 2 years ago
not shutter, but shuttle!
Mechanic: catmastertech, Technician replied 2 years ago

The shuttle controller would be under the steering wheel, is a forward and reverse control for the four-speed manual shift transmission that has the neutralizer button on the top of the handle. The manual shifter would be on the right console. Your machine has the four-speed power-synchro transmission and the shifter under the steering wheel is a data-link controller that is for your forward, reverse and all speeds selected on the shifter handle.

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Customer reply replied 2 years ago
thank you for helping clear up. In a short moment i got confused and needed to ask. So this is one the things that is two different solutions for, and then of course it has got the same two in drawing :)
Customer reply replied 2 years ago
hi again. Yesterday i tried to take off the shifter to se if i could find something wrong in the connections. I did "upgrade" an earlier repair on a bus cable between the main ecm and the transmission so it should be waterproof. Nothing helped out. I will try tomorrow to get some help from an mechanic to reset the codes.
Mechanic: catmastertech, Technician replied 2 years ago

I am not sure this is true for this machine but, we have found the voltage on the data link will often total 5 volts.

If you measure 2.3 volts on one leg, the other should read as 2.2 volts for a total of 5 volts. This is not an accurate tool but, it has been fairly true on later machines.

Maybe it will help. Just keep me posted to keep the question open.

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Customer reply replied 2 years ago
Will it be possible to control uf the main ecm is ok?
It is so different what is happening.
Mechanic: catmastertech, Technician replied 2 years ago

No, if the data link from the shift handle is bad, the ECM doesn't know what to do and usually will not start or won't go into gear since it can't see a neutral position.

If your voltage is not correct, then a harness issue is the most common problem. It could be a terminating resistor in the circuit or a short to power or ground. Anything that might "dirty" the signal back to the ECM or cause interference of the signal.

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Customer reply replied 2 years ago
Ok. I am observing different things happening. The backup alarm is unstabil, the backuplight is always "perfect", it suddenly went in shift with the park brak "on" and now it never works. The bus voltage is ca 4,5 / 0,5 volts at the two cables, each to ground. (If i remember correct) the park brake is not through the canbus if i'm right?
They will let me try the shift lever and see if it helps change it. The price is about 1800 dlrs.. The charge me an 15% retur fee if it dont help. It has been changed one time, about 2011. Will it break again?
Mechanic: catmastertech, Technician replied 2 years ago

It does seem odd if your backup alarm is working. We don't have lights here so, I assume they are operated through a relay and do not directly load the ECM.

The data link is a separate network and it will only connect to the ECMs. The bus voltage is good so, it would be an input from a switch or the shift handle causing the issue.

The change to the new handle was done back in 2005 so, you should have the latest version. Old number, 174-6649 Transmission Control. New number, 261-2208 Transmission Control.

The new one should not fail but, it can happen as with anything electronic. I would still focus on the harness first, then try a swap with a friend to see if your handle is working or not before buying a new one.

If you can get to a dealer, they could check some of the functions with the CAT ET program. Have you asked about used parts at your dealer? Sometimes they have some good deals.

I will be signing off now, got to do my day job! I will check back later to see what you find.

Thanks, Don

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Customer reply replied 2 years ago
Hi again. I am dealing with the fact that the cat People here in norway are unhappy with cases like mine. It takes some time to get someone to reset the codes and read out the new codes. And the weather turns bad and cold so i might just forget this problem-cat until later. I will keep you updated!
Mechanic: catmastertech, Technician replied 2 years ago

Thank you for the update Jørn.

I understand how some remote areas are hard to cover. In my past, I have driven over a hundred miles at times to get to a customer, and then all I could do was read codes and make suggestions as to the cost of me making a return trip would be too expensive.

I did live in a cold area for a short time, and I am glad to be back in the warm south. It has been above 50 degrees Fahrenheit here so far all winter. Just a bit too wet as work has been slow.

Good luck, Don

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Customer reply replied 2 years ago
Hi again. Some news. I did write an email and did get some help from "backoffice" suppert at the Cat-dealer system her ein Norway. My neighbour is the head (ceo) for Cat here in norway. The answer was that it might be an problem with the hydraulic system in the transmission. It has an smaller, separate system on the gearbox with an separate oilpump. He says that this pump might be faulty, the pressure might be bad. So no I am waiting for the description on how to control this. My brother, witch is an good mechanic might help me out with this one day. Do you have any experience with this problem. It is said that the solenoids maybo will fail in engaging different chlutches. Does it sound correct? Thanks. Jørn.
Mechanic: catmastertech, Technician replied 2 years ago

It is possible but, I have had so many electrical problems and so few transmission hydraulic or mechanical problems that I would not consider it until I had eliminated any electrical fault that might cause the same trouble.

I have not repaired any of these transmissions other than replacing some bad rail position sensors and sending one into the shop for a damaged synchronizer.

Using CAT ET, I can see the active and logged codes, events and the status of most switches and solenoids. This would eliminate most of the electrical issue right upfront. Without ET, we can only go by the codes shown on the display.

Here is the guide for all possible problems you may find in the transmission. It too points to the likelihood of an electrical issue first for most complaints.

I may be off-target here with your problem so, please review the problem list and see if any stick out that relates to your troubles.

_________________________

Problem List

  • The machine will not move when FORWARD or REVERSE speeds are selected.

     

  • One or more speeds cannot be selected.

     

  • The transmission will not stay in the selected gear.

     

  • It is difficult to select the transmission speed.

     

  • The transmission is noisy in FORWARD gears.

     

  • The transmission is noisy in REVERSE gears.

     

  • The transmission system overheats.

     

Probable Causes

The Machine Will Not Move When FORWARD Or REVERSE Speeds Are Selected

  • The problem can be caused because of an active interlock. Check for active interlocks. See Systems Operation, "ELECTRICAL FUNCTION REQUIREMENTS" for information concerning machine interlocks for your machine.

     

  • There is a failure in the wiring harness.

     

  • The boom has exceeded the critical angle and the machine is in the rear axle locked mode. (Earlier Machines)

     

  • There is an active diagnostic code for the transmission.

     

  • The critical angle sensor has failed.

     

  • The parking brake is either ON or the parking brake is ON due to a failure.

     

  • The lever for the FORWARD or REVERSE has failed.

     

  • Power train oil level is not within the specification.

     

  • A transmission solenoid has failed.

     

  • There are damaged torque converter components.

     

  • The differential drive is damaged.

     

  • The neutralizer switch has failed.

     

  • The transmission is not calibrated.

     

  • System voltage is above 16 DCV.

     

  • System voltage is below 10 DCV.

     

 

  • A transmission solenoid has failed.

     

  • An air leak on the inlet side of the transmission pump.

     

  • The transmission pressure relief control valve is not set correctly.

     

  • FORWARD and REVERSE clutch packs are worn or damaged.

     

  • FORWARD and REVERSE clutch piston seals are leaking.

     

  • The transmission pump is worn or damaged.

     

One Or More Speeds Cannot Be Selected

  • The machine ECM may not be configured properly. See Testing and Adjusting, "ELECTRONIC CONTROL MODULE (ECM) - CONFIGURE" for information concerning the machine configuration.

     

  • The speed selection shifter fork is damaged.

     

  • Assemblies for the shift rod are damaged.

     

  • A synchronizer is damaged.

     

  • There are damaged gears in the transmission.

     

  • A transmission solenoid has failed.

     

  • The engine speed sensor has failed.

     

  • The intermediate speed sensor has failed.

     

  • The output speed sensor for the torque converter has failed.

     

The Transmission Will Not Stay In The Selected Gear.

  • A transmission solenoid has failed.

     

  • The engine speed sensor has failed.

     

  • The intermediate speed sensor has failed.

     

  • The output speed sensor for the torque converter has failed.

     

  • The detent spring for the transmission selector lever is damaged.

     

  • The shift fork is damaged.

     

  • The spring loaded split pin for the synchronizer is damaged.

     

  • The parking brake has an intermediate failure.

     

It Is Difficult To Select The Transmission Speed

  • The speed selection shifter fork is damaged.

     

  • Assemblies for the shift rod are damaged.

     

  • A synchronizer is damaged.

     

  • The FORWARD or REVERSE clutch is staying engaged.

     

The Transmission Is Noisy In FORWARD Gears

  • The transmission oil level is too low.

     

  • The relief pressure for the transmission pump is too low.

     

  • The transmission gears are worn or damaged.

     

  • The transmission shaft bearings are worn or damaged.

     

  • The transmission needs to be calibrated.

     

The Transmission Is Noisy In REVERSE Gears

  • The transmission oil level is too low.

     

  • The lube pressure for the transmission is too low.

     

  • The transmission gears for the REVERSE shaft are worn or damaged.

     

  • The bearings for the REVERSE shaft are worn or damaged.

     

  • The transmission needs to be calibrated.

     

The Transmission System Overheats

  • The application for the machine is not correct.

     

  • The machine is not being operated correctly.

     

  • The scavenge pump for the transmission is not operating correctly.

     

  • There are leaks in the suction side of the transmission oil pump.

     

  • The transmission oil pressure is too low.

     

  • A direction clutch is slipping.

     

  • There may be an obstruction in the oil cooler.

     

  • The transmission oil cooler lines may be plugged or damaged.

     

  • The transmission oil pump is worn or damaged.

     

  • The torque converter inlet relief valve is stuck open.

     

  • The oil viscosity is not the correct viscosity.

     

  • The transmission oil temperature gauge has failed. The problem could be between the sensor, the ECM, and the display.

     

  • The ECM will display an error.

Below is an image of the transmission test port taps.

Start with #6 and read the pump pressures.

The regulated pump pressure can be tested at the test point (6). Remove the plug from the test point. Use suitable fittings from Table 1 in order to install the 8T-0855 Pressure Gauge (0 to 4,000 kPa (0 to 580 psi)).

Start the engine and operate the engine at 2350 rpm +100 or - 50.

The pressure should be 1625 ± 75 kPa (235 ± 11 psi) when the engine is operating at HIGH IDLE at a temperature of 80 °C (176°F).

Remove the fittings and install the plug that was removed from the test point.

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