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We have a bobcat S185 problem when it gets hot it will not…

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Hi,we have a bobcat S185...
Hi,we have a bobcat S185 problem when it gets hot it will not start back up
Submitted: 2 years ago.Category: Construction and Road Equipment
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Answered in 9 minutes by:
1/30/2016
Mechanic: Fieldtech59, Shop manager replied 2 years ago
Fieldtech59
Fieldtech59, Shop manager
Category: Construction and Road Equipment
Satisfied Customers: 115
Experience: Construction equipment repair technician since 1986, JLG certified, Shop manager since 2006.
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Hello, I need a little more information about the problem you're having. To clarify, when you say "when it gets hot", does that mean the engine is actually "overheating" type of hot, or just hot as in "after it gets to operating temperature"?

Second, since you're attempting to re-start, then obviously the engine is not running. Is the engine not running because you shut it down, or is the engine not running because it stalled out?

Third, when you say "will not start", does that machine the starter won't crank the engine, or does that mean the starter will crank the engine but the engine will not run?

Fourth, at any point, do you hear three short beeps (beep beep beep) from the alarm?

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Customer reply replied 2 years ago
Thank you, ***** ***** say we work with it and I turn the engine off ,It will not start it cranks and it's not overheating, but it put a Lil eater starts rite up
Customer reply replied 2 years ago
To restart Yes I do
Customer reply replied 2 years ago
I can here the beep sounds
Mechanic: Fieldtech59, Shop manager replied 2 years ago

Ok, engine will crank but not start and run, but just a whiff of starting fluid and it fires right up, no?

Once it starts up, it runs with no issues until you shut it down and try re-start, no?

Three short beeps from the alarm on a Bobcat: At any time during operation you hear three short "beep beep beep" from the alarm on a Bobcat, that's the main controller (ECM) telling you there is an active fault that it's seeing. At the very moment you hear those three beeps, stop, don't touch anything else, don't shut off the ignition, instead, right then, push and hold down the headlight button, this will bring up the active codes in the hour meter display, something like 03-18. The Bobcat controller only works with "active" codes, they do not "store" codes like an automotive ECM will do. Once you shut off ignition the active codes are gone, you have to wait until the fault happens again during operation and get the beeps to view the fault code the ECM is seeing.

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Customer reply replied 2 years ago
Thank you, ***** ***** and check it now give a couple of minutes
Mechanic: Fieldtech59, Shop manager replied 2 years ago

No worries. I'll be in and out today, have to errands to run and a home project I'm working on, sunny day and nice and warm, gotta work while the weather is good ya know.

To be sure, the alarm makes a number of beeps. When you first power up the ignition the alarm makes one long beep (beeeeeeeep), this is the ECM doing a self test and also lets you know the alarm is actually working. Another that is typical of Bobcat is when you drop the seat bar and hit the green "Enable" button to operate the machine some Bobcats will then sound 2 beeps. It's the 3 short beeps that is a fault, any time you hear 3 short beeps from the alarm, that's when you look for a code because the ECM is seeing something.

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Customer reply replied 2 years ago
Sorry getting back to Lil late ,hope it's ok it took a Lil time to get the 3 beeps ,so I did what you told me, and it comes out NONE on the small screen, also we stop putting either and put the battery charger and she started right up with out a problem ,we let run for 30 minutes, then we turn the key to off waited 3 minutes and did not start, so we the battery charger or a Lil either stars right up .
Customer reply replied 2 years ago
I'm thinking fuel, not getting enough to start it
Mechanic: Fieldtech59, Shop manager replied 2 years ago

Ok. Two common problems with Bobcats, 1) fuel strainer on pick up tube inside tank gets clogged, starves engine for fuel, sort of like a fuel filter clogged up. Don't think that's your problem as this typically shows up when engine is under load, engine stalls out. You're not describing anything like that symptom. and 2) problem with the fuel shutdown solenoid, which with the symptoms you describe, is a more likely the cause of your problem.

Depending on the year build, those Kubota engines used one of two types of fuel shutdown solenoid, the early version was an external mounted solenoid, located at the injection pump, that had a stubby linkage rod that connected the shut down solenoid to the injection pump run/stop control arm, all of these components were external and visible. The later shut down solenoid was mounted on the front timing cover of the engine, in front of the injection pump. You can see the solenoid but the control components are internal, not visible like the external version.

I need to know which one of these solenoids your engine has.

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Customer reply replied 2 years ago
Ok will let you know in a few, thank you
Mechanic: Fieldtech59, Shop manager replied 2 years ago

Ok, got some work to do outside building an awning at my back door while it's daylight, I'll be back here later.

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Customer reply replied 2 years ago
Sr, your right, it has the shut down solenoid it's mounted right next to the injectors so we remove to at lease clean it and we put it right back and it started with out a problem, however as soon we let get hot and try to started it did not, also we remove the pick tube ,clean it and by pass it to diesel can it's clean, however to get this part will be till Monday one I get the part and try it I will let you know .thank for all your help and enjoy your sunny day. Respectfully ***** *****
Customer reply replied 2 years ago
it does Sr
Mechanic: Fieldtech59, Shop manager replied 2 years ago

Ok, you need some tie wire. Operate the machine to warm it up a good bit and shut it down. Next time it won't start up, like it has been doing, yank the back door open, tie some tie wire around that run/stop lever, pull the solenoid linkage in to put the lever in run position and tie it off there, see if it will fire off now. If it does, that pretty much narrows it down to a problem with the fuel solenoid or wiring circuit to the solenoid.

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Customer reply replied 2 years ago
Sr good morning I'm sorry I did not respond back to you,I will order the parts tomorrow, and do that with the wire ties today my wife sister are visiting today I'm not going to work hope you understand, also enjoy your Sunday
Mechanic: Fieldtech59, Shop manager replied 2 years ago

No worries, carry on. I'll be back at work tomorrow, and I'm typically busy the full day at work, don't really have time to check in here during the week until I get home in the evening myself. With that said I figured I'd give you a little more information.

Assuming we find we do have a problem with the shutdown solenoid itself, or a problem with the circuit that controls the solenoid. The way that solenoid works, it has three wires, red, white, and black. Black wire is ground (earth). Red wire powers the hold coil inside the solenoid, white wire powers the pull coil. Both hold and pull circuits are controlled by the main controller (ECM)

The two separate coils, pull and hold, have a purpose. The hold coil (magnetic coil) is what "holds" the spool of the solenoid retracted in the solenoid body, but it does not have enough magnetic power to "pull" the spool in from the fully extended position, that's where the "pull" coil comes into play. The way it works, when you power up the ignition, the ECM sends power to booth red (hold) and white (pull) wires. This pulls the spool fully retracted in the solenoid. Once this happens the ECM takes power away from the white wire because it can only have power for a few seconds (momentary) or it will burn up that coil. The power for the red wire comes directly from the ECM. The power for the white wire comes from the "fuel" relay inside the fuse box, that relay (on/off) is controlled by the ECM.

The Bobcat ECM is very good at noticing problems with circuits that it controls, and it will report these situations via trouble codes, this includes problems with the fuel solenoid. However, I have seen many instances, let's say the pull coil inside the shutdown solenoid is still functional, but it's getting weak from age. The ECM doesn't yet see a problem because it hasn't failed completely, but it's failing enough to cause a no start. My point, shutdown solenoid is going bad but the ECM can't see that just yet. So yes, it becomes a "parts swap" method of troubleshooting, but many times this is the case in this situation. I can't say with certainty this is your problem, but with absence of trouble codes, 9 times out of 10 it's a tired solenoid and a new one remedies the problem.

BTW, if you do replace that shutdown solenoid, linkage length adjustment is critical. The spool of the solenoid "has to" be fully bottomed into the solenoid body when it retracts. If, when it pulls the run/stop lever on the injection pump, and that run/stop lever hits its stops inside the pump, and at that time the spool of the solenoid isn't fully bottomed out inside the solenoid body it will burn up the solenoid. Adjust the linkage length so the solenoid spool is fully bottomed inside the solenoid when run/stop lever is in run position.

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Customer reply replied 2 years ago
Hello sr,we finally got the parts that we needed, and it's still doing the same thing so we remove the ejector,to clean them we made a big mistake we open them clean out the dirt and replace the broken O rings however as per the book says, that they are tork 48 to 57 lbs and I'm afraid to do damage. Please advise
Mechanic: Fieldtech59, Shop manager replied 2 years ago

Not sure I understand what you've done, are you saying you removed one or all of the injectors in the head? Or are you removing the delivery valves in the injection pump?

Did you try pulling the run/stop lever into the run position and tying it off with tie wire?

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Customer reply replied 2 years ago
Sr thank you for showing me how to better word it ,we remove all 4 ejector valves from the head, and we disassemble each ejector to clean them it had the O ring broken ,however the service book explains they to be tork
Customer reply replied 2 years ago
They need to be tork at a specific tork lbs
Customer reply replied 2 years ago
Sr one more thing I did not tie the run leveler with a wire
Customer reply replied 2 years ago
Because I'm not sure I should put the ejector they they are I'm afraid that I might damage the engine
Mechanic: Fieldtech59, Shop manager replied 2 years ago

Well, ya got me there, I'm not familiar with a disassembled injector on one of those engines. Whenever I need service done to injectors I pull them out and take them to an injection shop for repairs because they have the proper tools and experience to work with those things. I'm not saying you can't manage it and sort it out, just saying I've never done that so I can't offer advice on rebuilding the innards of the injectors, I leave that to the injection pros.

Keep me updated with the progress.

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Customer reply replied 2 years ago
Thank you yes I'm taking them tomorrow to a place to rebuild them I will let you know how we do
Mechanic: Fieldtech59, Shop manager replied 2 years ago

If the shop is an honest and reputable shop, and they tell you the injectors were in poor shape inside, you might want to consider removing the injection pump and having it gone through, reasoning is if the injectors are worn internally it's likely the injection pump delivery valves is as well. Premature wear is a common problem now days with the Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel were using now. Fortunately for me, I have an injection shop I've been working with for many years, have a good relationship with them and they tell me straight up if parts are good or if they need repair/replacement.

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