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Curtis B.
Curtis B., Technician
Category: Construction and Road Equipment
Satisfied Customers: 1167
Experience:  Technican turned service manager with multiple lines of equipment and rental units.
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Well! and I am in just the beginning of some problem with my

Customer Question

well hey Dan! This is Henry Maxwell and I am in just the beginning of some problem with my 773G (2001). Sometimes while just driving it forward without any load on it even, the drive abruptly halts and immediately shuts down the 773. This is only just now happening this last week. Restarting the motor helps some but it also won't a couple of times engage the controls after pressing the press to operate button, the lights come on for a second but shut them selves off immediately. It does work itself out after a couple of restarts but I probably need to see about working on the problem before it starts getting cold outside :-)
Submitted: 1 year ago.
Category: Construction and Road Equipment
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Oh, I checked for codes by holding the 'lights' button and it said 'none'. thanks
Expert:  Fieldtech59 replied 1 year ago.

Hello Henry, I need to get a little more info from you about what the machine is doing, but the first thing we need to verify is the process for getting the fault codes, I need to make sure we're getting that right. If you simply depress the headlight button you won't get any codes as Bobcat machines don't "store" codes, they only work with active codes the moment the ECU notices a fault in the system. The key to this is the audible alarm. When you first power up the ignition, even before you start the machine, you should hear a single long beep from the alarm. This is the self test and also lets you know the alarm is working. Once you start and operate the machine, is there is a fault in the electrical system, and the ECU notices it, it will sound three short beep beep beep from the alarm, that's an active fault. Right then, don't do anything else, don't touch nothing else, instead, right then, push and hold down the headlight button, this will bring up the active fault code(s). Let me know what you find.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Oh, ok! I see...this may take me some time can I come back to this question later with more info for you. I will need to get to the machine and get it going and use it a bit and I am sure it will do it again cause it has done it the last 2 days I used it :-)
Expert:  Fieldtech59 replied 1 year ago.

No worries, I'll see your reply when you pop back on here. Even if I'm offline at that time, when I log back in I'll see that you've replied. We'll see if we can sort this out. BTW, if it does have fault code(s) they'll show up in the hour meter display, should look something like 13-42, four digit code.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Oh Thanks!!!! I'm new to this type of forum and will get back at ya! Thx Fieldtech59!
Expert:  Fieldtech59 replied 1 year ago.

Sounds good.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Hey Fieldtech59! Got back to bobcat garden work today and after about 10 minutes was able to again experience the problem of locking up traction and immediate shutdown of motor with nothing other that the bobcat's mind :-) It did it about 12 times without giving me any of the 3 beeps or warning. Then, finally got 3 beeps and a code 12-23 for front auxiliary PWM switch not in neutral. The garden is about 150 yards from the garage and I wanted to at least get to the garage to be around tools !! It stopped 2 more times again without the code or beeps, at least I feel better being at the garage.I always was able to get a single beep on start every time. Sometimes the "press to operate loader" button would turn on the BICS and sometimes it would come on but immediately kick the operate button off. I just shutdown recycled thru it and a couple times was able to hit the variable flow button and then go back to the operate loader button and it would come on. Not sure about why that was going on but at least I have 1 code through all the playing around today huh!I go at slowest speed cause it always happens when going forward and it is immediate and without warning and got only 1 code message out of about 15 issues. Thanks for any help you can figure out!!! Henry
Expert:  Fieldtech59 replied 1 year ago.

Sorry about the delay Henry, did family stuff with grand kids today, figured that would be a good time to upgrade my PC to Windows 10. Well, yes and no, just now getting online.

But back to your problems. I'm beginning to think you got one of those really good gremlins, one that's gonna be tough for me to sort out since I'm not right there with the machine, but I'm going to give it my best to help. First, that PWM switch fault, I haven't run across that problem so I'm not certain how it happens, but, I'm thinking that would only pop up on start up during the self test, or the moment you push the button to power up the aux hydraulics, if the PWM switch were off center the ECU would notice this when you pushed the button to operate. In either case, I don't think that's what's shutting your machine down.

As for the shutting down and locking down problem, I think we have something else going on here and I've got to get a good understanding of just exactly what it's doing. The reason I say that, if you're getting shut down and brake lock, but not faults (beeps), then it's not a fault in the electrical system that the ECU can see, stuff like that is most often loss of power supply, so I really need to focus on this shut down problem. So let me ask this, you're tooling along, and suddenly, with no warning or beeps, the engine shuts down and the parking brake locks down the drive, is that about right? If so, what does the left panel do at that very moment, does the BICS panel with the 4 LED lights go blank? Does the hour meter and gauges on the left panel go dead?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Good morning Fieldtech 59! Im so glad you had some quality time with grandkids! I am gonna have a morning Chiefs brunch Sunday as they are playing the Lions in England! Should be a good time.Think we are getting a clearer picture on this now, trucking along suddenly the drive shuts down, the engine shuts down with no beeps or warnings. Got it to do it this a.m.; the 4 LEDs light go blank, but the hr meter and gauges are ok. Checked for codes an again it said none. But while sitting there a while the seat light would intermittently come back on.Trying to get it back to garage has been a struggle but I came into house and went back out and it ran ok for about 100 feet, only 100 more feet and I'll be back at garage. Now, a lot of the time on start up you can't get the seat light to come on so it must be something there. I look at my left shoulder and see an electric plug right under the swing arm but don't want to take it apart till I get back to garage. So I will play with it until I can get it back to garage. I feel it is something to do with the seat switch or fuses, I changed a lot of fuses this a.m. in the fuse box by my feet, but not all of them they looked ok but a little milky white around some contact points. Talk to ya later....back out to get to that last 100 feet! :-)
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Well, that was quick! Another 5-7 minutes of being away from it, it started right up with the seat light on and engaged and I made it that last 100 feet. I feels so good to be home!!!! God was seeing my desparation! Nothing more to add except relief to get it back to garage! See Ya!Oh, don't feel you have to immediately get back, just at your convenience as I am retired grandpa who does a little farm work on our 10 acres in the country 30 miles east of downtown KC.
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I just had this bright idea....I had replaced a fuel sending unit out of the tank and replaced new fuel hose from it to the priming bulb. I had to raise the cab to do that last week. Thinking some leaves/sticks/or whatever may have traveled and may be interferring with the signal of the seat. Have never looked at seat sensor/connector so guess I will raise cab again after putting stands under the back and see if I have done something there..... This stopping problem started after I fixed the fuel problem. I did already pull back the cab as I thought surely I wasn't dumb enough to leave some tools under there----yeah I didn't but I may have moved some dirt/debri as there was small sticks and stuff around there. Let you know.....Thx Henry
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
well that was kindof commicle! Got the seat off, pretty easy only four nuts and seat come off and I could clean everything, as it was very bad with rocks,sticks and leaves totally filling the cavity and underneath and in the seat. But I couldn't see the seat sensor and there are no electrical wires running to the seat itself. That confused me now how does the bobcat sense if someone is in the seat for that seat light to work? can ya tell I'm a little green! Bought this in 2005 and was in Baltimore for a year came home to the farm the have not had any issues so didn't need any help, now I am learning and really going thru it. Thx Henry
Expert:  Fieldtech59 replied 1 year ago.

Looks like you were busy with it today. During the work week I don't have a lot of time to log in, spent most of the day in the service truck on job sites, which is pretty typical for me, so I log in during the evening when I get home.

Ok, there's just too many things going on here for me to pinpoint what is causing the problem. However, a couple of things to consider. 2001 would be one of the early G Series machines, but I'm near certain that Bobcat no longer used a seat switch when they went with the G Series, they used the on the C Series and some of the F Series machines, but they were problematic. By the time they produced the G Series they pretty much settled with using only the seat bar switch. Now the seat bar switch in one of those is a Hall Effect sensor/switch, no way to test it with typical test equipment, but Bobcat has a tool/tester that will test one.

If that seat bar sensor was faulty, even intermittently, yes, it would lock out the lift/tilt functions and even the drive, just like it would if you were to raise the seat bar. However, what it would not do is shut the engine down, that's the part that has me puzzled, especially if it's not a fuel supply problem shutting the engine down, which shouldn't be likely as you just replaced the fuel supply line.

Assuming it's not a fuel supply problem shutting the engine down, rather, it's an electrical supply or ground (earth) problem, then it has to be a problem that's not part of the control system (sensors/switches) of the machine because obviously the ECU isn't seeing it, hence no beeps. To recap, if it's an electrical problem shutting down the engine, yet you get no beeps, that's typically an electrical supply or ground problem.

Things to to do:

1) For sure check the battery connections. Unless they look squeaky clean, don't just inspect them, actually take the battery connections loose, clean them, and re-connect them. And be sure to disconnect those ground wires that connect to that stud on the negative battery terminal, make sure those grounds are clean and connected good.

2) Until we figure out this electrical problem, if in fact that's what it is, that machine should have an external fuel shut down solenoid. It would be mounted on the injection pump and have a linkage that operates a lever on the side of the injection pump. Start the engine, that makes the fuel shutdown solenoid pull the full lever on the injection pump into the run position. Take some tie wire and tie that lever to where it will remain in the run position, that way when the problem surfaces it won't kill the engine.

3) If we do have an intermittent seat bar sensor problem, which I think maybe not, but I'm not sure yet, nevertheless, let's try something, just for the hell of it, the next time it kicks off the 4 BICS lights and locks down the drives. We've got the fuel solenoid tied back to keep the engine running, now raise the seat bar. With the seat bar up and engine running, push the Traction Lock Override button and see if it will unlock the parking brake and allow you to drive the machine. The lift/tilt won't work, but you should be able to drive.

4) Lastly, raise the cab and check the C407 harness connector that connects the cab harness to the main frame lower harness. With the cab raised, standing at the front of the machine and viewing toward the machine innards (to the rear), you'll notice a bundle of harness coming from the back rear of the cab and going down the back bulkhead of the main frame. Follow that bundle of wiring down until you come across a harness connector, that's the C407 connector. Take it apart (disconnect it) and inspect the pins/sockets inside the connector, look for burnt (arcing), damaged, or corroded connections. Look especially at wires that are red or red/white, numbers would be either wire number 1200 and/or wire #1900, those are main power wires going to and from the cab BICS panel. You may want to also pull the BICS panel in the cab and look for any problem wiring or connection problems to the back side of the BICS panel.

Let me know what you find.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Wow! Thanks for your help. When I closed everything up tonight there was 1 red wire that was taped that looked a little loose to me. I gently touched on it and in fact it was totally loose but still in the tape that was loose on the wire and not crimped. So I took the tape off of the connector and put the little red wire back on and crimped it and retaped. Just to let ya know in case that is a small factor too. I thank you so much for what you are doing, your knowledge is unbelieveable!!!! Thanks you gave enough to keep me busy tomorrow.. You are great and thanks so much for your time and help!!!
Expert:  Fieldtech59 replied 1 year ago.

I think you may be narrowing down your problem. I can tell where that pic is, it's the cab harness where the cab tilt pivot on the curb side is. And I can tell you someone has had this problem, or one similar, and has attempted to Jerry Rig it. Those two red wires in the pic are not original Bobcat, and they may be wires that someone fitted to remedy a problem in the cab harness, I can't say for sure unless I knew where they terminate. But it's not necessarily a bad thing as long as the remedy is done fit and proper. I'm thinking you also have the deluxe (enclosed) cab given there's two harness bundles there. If it were me, I'd be tempted to pull the roof panel and the front control panels out and see just what someone has done it there, to see that it's done proper, and to see which (original) color wires they connected those two red wires to.

The general Bobcat color coding of original wire goes something like this:

Red - Red/Wht - Red/Org = battery feed, main power supply, #1000 - #1999

Black = ground, #2000 - #2999

Light Blue = monitoring, #3000 - #3999

Light Green = hydraulic circuits, #4000 - #4999

Yellow = attachments controls, #5000 - #5999

Pink = lights, #6000 - #6999

White = accessories, #7000 - #7999

Tan = engine, #8000 - #8999

Purple = ECU communication, #9000 - #9999

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Hey Fieldtech59! Yesterday was a misty with off and on rain so I stayed dry! At least the Royals made it thru the wet weather by the skin of their teeth!!! Yea!!!1. Cleaned all battery stuff again to be sure..One thing the battery is 2009 model and I will replace immediately but never has an issue starting and I reshined the posts and those small wires. The battery did not have a negative stud for those small wires when I bought it and when I bought the battery in 2009 bought the same kind, but I will buy a post & stud battery when I get up there later this week.2. Figured that out and was able to zip tie the lever ok.3. I was singing as I ran the bobcat about 15-20 mins and nothing happened so I believed the small red wire was our long lost problem!!!! Got back to the house at the garage and did a forward/backward before calling it a done deal and on the 4th forward the bobcat running gear shutdown---BUMMER! So I raised the seat bar, with the engine running, pushed the Traction Lock Override button and unlocked the parking brake and drove forward and backward---MAN YOU ARE ONE KNOWLEDGEABLE DUDE!Running out of daylight to do #4 and have knowledge ignorance on the wire #'s you discuss. But will begin that stuff maybe tomorrow as my wife comes back home from visiting her Brother in the morning and I need to pick her up at the airport... Bummer, I just knew that wire was a deal maker!!!I see what you are saying in seeing what the prior person or the bobcat dealer did before I bought the baby! Not sure how to go into the padding that's inside the cab. I have a moonroof and see a couple of plastic buttons to undo but can figure out how to unhook the edges around the cab etc. but I haven't really made it a job to do so may be able to figure it out after looking at it a bit. My challenge will be how to work it in with my wife coming home (hehe) and all the kids and grandkids coming Sunday morning, so I may be a little slow doing things.As soon as I cut the zip tie it died but starts up ok after doing it.Thanks soooooooooo much man, wish I knew about this stuff better! ThanksSSSSSSSS! I can take more pics if that helps and I think it is sunny tomorrow here!
Expert:  Fieldtech59 replied 1 year ago.

The negative battery stud is part of the battery cable terminal on the original Bobcat negative battery cable. It's possible someone has removed the original negative cable and replace it with a standard battery cable that doesn't have the stud to connect the ground wires, but it's no problem as long as the ground wires are connected good, wherever it is they connected them.

If I'm reading this correct, you zip tied back the fuel shutdown lever at the injection pump and tooled around on the machine. Everything was fine until finally the parking brake locked down, but the engine kept running since the fuel lever is zip tied. If this is correct, then I'm still thinking we have a main power supply or ground disconnect somewhere.

Problems like this can be a bugger to find because there's so many things can cause this. For example, I don't know if your model 773G is made like this, and I've worked on so many Bobcats I don't recall the model this happened to, but I worked on one once that had power supply problems and after many hours of searching for the source I finally pulled out the lower harness as it runs from the battery, down the frame, and to the fuse box. Peeled back the protective wire loom on the harness and about mid ways Bobcat had taken the main red wire and split it into two wires and one of the wires was broken at that connection. Of course this was out of view on the machine and enclosed in the wire loom. It may well be that your problem will be equally challenging.

That's why I suggested pulling the roof panel and the front control panels, you just don't know what someone else before you has done to the wiring on the machine. But you want to start with the easy stuff, like checking the battery connections (which you did) and note every ground connection you run across, make sure it's good. And a 12V probe test light is a good tool to use for this type of troubleshooting. Also check the fuse box, pull all the relays, pull the fuses one at a time, look for evidence of excessive amperage melting the plastic of the fuse box or signs of arcing from poor spade connections.

And in a case like this, I want to narrow down the problem. If I suspect I'm losing master power, I'd do something like pull fuse #9 (unswitched power) from the fuse box, rig up a jumper with an inline fuse that I can connect a test light to the circuit while operating the machine, then when it dies see if I lose power on the unswitched circuit, things like that to narrow down the problem. And be sure to inspect where the cab harness connects to the lower frame harness, that's a spot that commonly gives trouble on a Bobcat.

And yes, it's been a little sloppy here the last couple of days here in East TN, I've had to slog around in the mud for the last three days on job sites. But it's all good, one of the worst whuppins I had as a kid was getting muddy, now I get paid to do it. Here's a pic of my ride.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Oh wow, Fieldtech59 I love that truck! We had a great weekend with the kids they all came for brunch yesterday a.m. for the Chiefs game in England and we won, that is a miracle in itself. Oh, and then what can I say about the Royals!!! There is a big parade for hours un end in KC tomorrow beginning at noon.Well I started looking at electrical today. I did find a multitester and was able to figure out volts for a battery I think. I started the cat up and put engine on high and check the +and- posts on battery and got 15volts. Installed a new battery today, did same thing and got 14volts.So now I started with inside the cab, over left shoulder and behind, I notice a electric panel that is unused except the farthest left slot that looks like a cigarette lighter hole or at least some sort of power hole that is totally encased with white film, even the hole itself. Course I had to stick my finger in it!!! and punched a hole in the white stuff whatever it is, still haven't figured that out except just white corrosion.Pulled back that side of ceiling panel and saw a bunch of non-used harnesses and the one going to the cigarette thing. Got the unit out of the panel and took in to the garage to look at. The plug to the harness looks ok, no burned spots that I can see. But the housing plug it self is full of mud dobbers and so is some of the harness wires. I had an old car once that turned out the cigarette lighter was draining the battery and just unhooked it. Maybe I am that lucky here?Well anyhow it started getting dark so will resume tomorrow to drive it again and see if cigarette/power housing in electrical panel was the culprit. Here are some pics of my shenanigans today! Hope you had a great day! Thanks Henry I will do #4 on your list after I test drive it again tomorrow too (forgot!) Thx!
Expert:  Fieldtech59 replied 1 year ago.

Well the mud daubers have been busy in there, but one thing I notice, at least from what the pics show, is the harness looks in good shape there and I don't see those two red wires that are wrapped in electrical tape that you posted earlier. I'd really like to know what someone has connected those two red wires to. You need to pull that little corner cover trim at the rear corner of the cab and see if those two red wires are connected to the harness there.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Sounds good! I'll do that and get pics and pull the cab over and relook at those red wires underneath took with pics Thanks!!!!
Expert:  Fieldtech59 replied 1 year ago.

Yes, do. And if we don't find a problem there, and don't really find a problem at the connector where the cab harness joins the lower frame harness, then I think I'd put a jumper fuse in the unswitched power fuse and hook a meter to it so I could monitor the voltage on that circuit while operating.

Among the other Monday morning catastrophes that typically manifest themselves, this is just one of them that I had to deal with today. A new hanger will take a couple of weeks to get and the bucket rod is now bent, gonna take some welding with the big wire to mend this and that cylinder repair ain't gonna be cheap either. Oh well, I've said it before, operators are like peanut butter, they only come in two flavors...smooth and crunchy.

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