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Have a 416 Cat backhoe. Yesterday the machine was working fine…

Have a 416 Cat backhoe...
Have a 416 Cat backhoe. Yesterday the machine was working fine with forward and reverse in all gears. This AM it only has reverse in 1st gear and that quits after a few uses (plowing snow). If I wait and it cools off get reverse back again for a short time. In all gears, the drive shaft torques when put in reverse but not enough power to move the machine backwards. Forward still works fine. (Note, it has always needed a fw minutes of warming up before reverse would work but once warmed up never an problem). Neutralizer works fine.

Have changed trans oil and cleaned screen (was not plugged but only a few metal filings) - no change in condition

Manual says could be a problem with "leakage at seal rings" but no explaination of where to check these. Has enough pressure at reverse pressure check port to activate reverse alarm solenoid. Have not done actual pressure check yet. Manual says if low pressure here problem probable cause is "clutch piston seals bad" but with no explaination of how to check. From book looks like would need to dissaseble the transmission to get at.

Is there anyhing in the (easier to get at) transmission control valve assembly that could cause this (broken spring or seal)?
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Answered in 7 minutes by:
3/20/2013
Mechanic: Dan, Technician replied 9 years ago
Dan
Dan, Technician
Category: Construction and Road Equipment
Satisfied Customers: 14,662
Experience: 17+ yrs. shop and field experience with all major brands of heavy equipment and trucks - 1995 WyoTech graduate.
Verified

HeavyEquipmentTech :

Hi my name isXXXXX will try to help. Cut open your filter with a filter cutting tool and inspect for metal which would indicate an internal failure. The only way to troubleshoot this further is to test your pressures according to the shop manual. If your clutch packs are worn and the seals are gone then your transmission will need to be removed, disassembled, and overhauled. Was the oil discolored, burnt, milky, etc?What is your serial number?

Customer:

serial number 05PC03248

Customer:

Oil was black. had not been changed in a very long time

Customer:

filter was discarded, cannot retrieve.

Customer:

do not think would be clutch plates as failed overnight while not running. Will do pressure test if nothing else to look for up top.

Customer:

If pressure on reverse tap is low and forward tap is high, will this ONLY mean that must pull the transmission to get at the seals?

HeavyEquipmentTech :

Once you disassemble your clutch packs and transmission to get to your seals you will be replacing your friction discs, bearings, etc. You will be basically looking at an overhaul to do this correctly. It is likely the seals but when the plates are worn excessively and the seals deteriorate with age and heat they will need to be replaced. You will not know what parts are servicable and which are not until it is apart unfortunately.

HeavyEquipmentTech :

Was there any friction material or o ring material found along with the metal? Its too bad the filter is gone but either way your pressure tests should reveal your answers. I think you are looking at a rebuild from the sounds of thinngs

Customer:

OK, will do the pressure tests soon and see if it is as expected. If pressure tests are normal will get back to dig deeper into other possibilities.

HeavyEquipmentTech :

Ok sounds good Let me know

HeavyEquipmentTech :

You have verified the Neutralizer circuit is functioning as it should and verified your FWD and REV is engaging fully on your control valve? If the pressures are within spec then it might be a good idea to inspect your control valve for problems. Let me know

Customer:

Neutrilizer circuit is fine. We found pieces of a disc, part # XXXXX from the clutch assembly in the strainer. Looking more and more like the transmission needs to come out.

HeavyEquipmentTech :

Unfortunately it is looking like it will have to if you found friction disc pieces

Dan
Dan, Technician
Category: Construction and Road Equipment
Satisfied Customers: 14,662
Experience: 17+ yrs. shop and field experience with all major brands of heavy equipment and trucks - 1995 WyoTech graduate.
Verified
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Dan
Dan, Technician
Category: Construction and Road Equipment
Satisfied Customers: 14,662
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Experience: 17+ yrs. shop and field experience with all major brands of heavy equipment and trucks - 1995 WyoTech graduate.

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