Construction and Road Equipment

Construction and road equipment repair questions? Ask a mechanic ASAP

Connect one-on-one with {0} who will answer your question

This answer was rated:

I have a D3c (believe to be a 1989 model year) Serial no. 5KG00741.

The problem is the only...
I have a D3c (believe to be a 1989 model year) Serial no. 5KG00741. The problem is the only way it steers is to push the pedal until the brakes do the steering. I did take off the access panels and check the steering valve rollers and that they move freely.I did not know how to check to see if the problem is in the valves or the clutches. I have just bought the machine so I do not know any back ground history.
Show More
Show Less
Ask Your Own Construction and Road Equipment Question
Answered in 2 hours by:
9/23/2012
Mechanic: catmastertech, Technician replied 9 years ago
catmastertech
catmastertech, Technician
Category: Construction and Road Equipment
Satisfied Customers: 3,963
Experience: Field service technician for CAT 19 years.
Verified
The most common failure for these tractors is the steering valve roller.
It will always roll but, the bearings wear away and too much travel is lost. This cause the pressure to not become high enough to release the steering clutch.
The valves must be removed to actually see the problem and disassembled to replace the bearing.
Here are details about rebuilding the steering valves. It is an old book so pictures are not great.

Steering Clutch Control Valves

Let me know if you need more help on this. I will be glad to assist you.
Thanks for using JustAnswer!
Donnie
Ask Your Own Construction and Road Equipment Question
Customer reply replied 9 years ago

I removed the valve and everything looks good, disassembled
the valve and everything looked good. Reassambled and blew air into the pressure ports and moved the cam lever back and forth and the air changed between the ports.Where do I look next, I do have one pressure gauge that goes to 1000 psi.

Customer reply replied 9 years ago

You may have already recieved an anser back form me I can't remember if I hit reply or not, but I did check the bearing and rollor and they look good. What do I need to check next. I do have a pressure gauge that goes to 1000 psi. if needed.

Mechanic: catmastertech, Technician replied 9 years ago
The bearing cannot have any wear. It must be tight and no free play. It should roll easily though. If the cam has wear on it from the bearing, replace the cam. You may need to order it with the bearing or add a bearing if it is not assembled. Inspect all the linkage and make sure it has no loose pins or yokes. Below is the adjustment for the steering levers linkage.
Steering Clutch Control Group

If all the linkage is correct, test pressure at the slave cylinder.
Here is were to check the pressure.

graphic
This plug is under the fender toward the front of the tractor. It is above the final drive. You will need to clean out the area but, you should not need to remove the track. Loosen the track tension and place a bar in the sprocket, back the machine until the bar lifts the track high enough to access the plug. It will likely be rusted away so , a replacement will be needed.
Pressure must be above 275 psi and up to 375 max.
If pressure is too low when applying the steering pedal, check other side. If pressure is normal, seal has likely failed in the slave cylinder. (shown in adjustment above)

Let me know if you need more help, this should get you to your problem.
Thanks, Donnie
Ask Your Own Construction and Road Equipment Question
Customer reply replied 9 years ago


Do not want anymore help, parts cost almost 350.00 and still has the same problem. I'll have CAT come and fix it, instead of keeping on wasting money.

Mechanic: catmastertech, Technician replied 9 years ago
Did you check the pressure? Was it normal on both sides? If valves are working correctly and don't have wear, the pressure should be correct.
Linkage should never be adjusted and if it is not worn, the valve should work correctly. Did you check the linkage per the instructions I sent?
A test on the port will tell you if the pressure is available to release the clutch. If pressure is not to the slave cylinder, internal leakage could be the problem. I am assuming since one side is working, you have good pressure to the valves. The next place to look would be the slave cylinder.
The dealer will cost around $1000 a day and repairing the slave cylinder will take about two days. If you do the work, the seals will only cost $50. If the cylinder is damaged, a new one would cost around $400. Some parts are available as "Classic" and cost about half of new. Classic parts don't have the full warranty but can save you a bundle.

I hope I can help you more with this problem. A few pressure test with a good gauge will help find the problem. I am sorry the valve bearing did not fix the issue. I have do dozens of the valves and it is were I always start. It is the most common failure for a clutch that does not release. I have only had one slave cylinder seal failure and one tractor were the operator screwed with the linkage and got it out of adjustment.
I even keep a spare bearing on my truck for quick repairs when i am out on the road.

Please let me know if you would like more help. You can always request a refund from customer service if you still wish to cancel the question.
Regards, Donnie
Ask Your Own Construction and Road Equipment Question
Customer reply replied 9 years ago

Ok, I checked the pressure on the left side(sitting on the dozer) and it goes up to 200 and then immediately goes up to 390 psi. I have gone out and pushed dirt with it and have also noticed that it also has another problem on the left side, about 30 to 40% of the time when you push on the left steer and let off, the left track does not engage again you have to go back to idle or even put it neutral and then back into gear and then it is fine. Also if you try to push alot of dirt in 2nd gear it only seems like 1st, but as you get less dirt in front of it, it goes faster.I have also unhooked the left brake to see if that was any of my problems and nothing changed. The right side is not perfect for steering but at least it does kind of work,just slow at steering. I did not check the pressure on this side yet due to the plug being rust off. Sorry about the last enty. I was not very happy about spending the money and not fixing the problem.Hopefully we can get this fixed.


Thanks,


Ed

Mechanic: catmastertech, Technician replied 9 years ago

Thanks for the reply, I am always glad to help anyway I can. I understand your frustration and it sounds like this is becoming a serious problem.

Does pressure stay on the steering clutch pressure tap even after releasing the pedal?

If the steering valve is sticking internally, this could keep pressure on the steering clutch, holding it released.

If the oil is not draining from the steering clutch slave cylinder when you release the pedal, it is possible a hose could be damaged internally and block flow from the steering control valve.

I have seen a tractor were the lines got crossed during a repair but, this would be a constant problem. Since your problem is intermittent, I would not think you have a crossed line. I do have a picture for you to double check the line routing.

The inside rear lines are the pressure supply hoses to the valve from the transmission. The inside front lines are the drain hoses from the valve to the transmission. These lines have a tee fitting to connect to the same port on each valve. The single line on the outside of each valve is to the respective steering clutch slave cylinder.

Please verify yours is correct and should appear as in the image below. If the return lines are cracked or pinched, remove them to inspect for internal damage. Check for free flow through them to be sure it is not restricting flow and will drain the oil from the steering valves.

graphic

Steering Control Linkage
(Top View-5KG, 1PJ Shown) (1) Left
side steering clutch control valve. (2) Tube assembly. (3) Cam assembly. (4)
Rod. (5) Hose assembly (pressure). (6) Hose assembly (return). (7) Right side
steering clutch control valve. (8) Tube assembly. (9) Cam assembly. (10)
Rod.

The oil supply for the steering clutch operation comes from the power train
hydraulic system through hose (5) and another hose assembly to passage (13) in
both the right and left steering clutch control valves (1) and (7).

When the left pedal is pushed, rod (4) moves forward. The movement of rod (4)
will cause cam assembly (3) to move. When cam assembly (3) moves, it makes
contact with roller (17) on valve (1). Roller (17) is fastened to stem (16). The
movement of cam assembly (3) will push stem (16) to the left. As stem (16) moves
to the left, it will cause spring (15) to push spool (12) to the left against
the force of spring (11). As spool (12) moves to the left, spool (12) closes the
opening between outlet (14) and drain (19). Further movement of spool (12) to
the left will open a passage and allow pressure oil from the transmission
hydraulic system to flow from inlet passage (13) to outlet passage (14). Outlet
passage (14) is connected to tube assembly (2). Tube assembly (2) is connected
to the steering clutch cylinder on the left hand side of the machine.
graphic

When the right pedal is pushed, rod (10) moves forward. The movement of rod
(10) will cause cam assembly (9) to move. When cam assembly (9) moves, it makes
contact with roller (17) on valve (7). Roller (17) is fastened to stem (16). The
movement of cam assembly (3) will push stem (16) to the left. As stem (16) moves
to the left, it will cause spring (15) to push spool (12) to the left against
the force of spring (11). As spool (12) moves to the left, spool (12) closes the
opening between outlet (14) and drain (19). Further movement of spool (12) to
the left will open a passage and allow pressure oil from the transmission
hydraulic system to flow from inlet passage (13) to outlet passage (14). Outlet
passage (14) is connected to tube assembly (8). Tube assembly (8) is connected
to the steering clutch cylinder on the right hand side of the machine.

When either of the pedals are released, the linkage will return to its
original position. The cam assembly will move away from the roller and stem.
Spring (11) will push the spool to the right and stop the flow of pressure oil
to the steering clutch cylinder. After the inlet passage has been closed, the
oil in the cylinder is allowed to go to drain through hose assembly (6). The
return oil goes back into the reservoir in the transmission.

The operation of both steering clutch control valves are the same.
*

The information above is to be sure the problem is not hydraulic. As long as the oil flow will drain from the slave cylinder, the steering clutch should engage completely.

*

The only thing that I can see that would cause both problems of not releasing and not engaging is, damage to the steering clutch plates. Bent or warped plates and discs can cause a steering clutch to drag and keep driving and then cause it to have problems engaging to drive the tractor (slipping).

This would also cause the tractor to not drive straight, it will likely have a slight turn to the left all the time (or when the clutch is slipping).

This is a torque convertor drive transmission. The convertor will not lock solid at any time and when a load is place on the blade it will loose speed. The rpm should not fall below 1600 RPM and you will likely see the transmission oil temperature rise if you hold in this stall condition for more the thirty seconds.This can damage the convertor so , allow the transmission oil time to cool down.

If you had a direct drive before or any tractor with a flywheel clutch, this tractor is very different. Torque convertor slip is power multiplication. Speed will drop but, push power is increased.

I hope this will help you find the problem, it is hard to tell what it could be in a few short questions. I will be glad to answer any questions you may have. Feel free to ask as many as you need so, I can help you with this issue.

Thanks, Donnie

Ask Your Own Construction and Road Equipment Question
Customer reply replied 9 years ago


The pressure drops off as soon as you release the pedal.( I tried it many times and it always dropped right off. ) The hoses are also correct, so It looks like I will have a winter project. Could you send me instructions on disassembling to the clutches and the brakes, just so I'm not going into this blind. Also how to remove and rebuild the clutches and if need be replacing the brakes and adjusting them.


Thanks for your help,


Ed

Mechanic: catmastertech, Technician replied 9 years ago

Yes, this can be a very involved project. Tooling to rebuild steering clutch will cost allot depending on the shop equipment you already have. Some owners will remove the clutch and send it to the dealer for rebuild. Always ask for an estimate of repair and to save the old parts for you.

Here is the information you are looking for.

Steering clutch removal

*

Rebuilding clutch.

*

Clutch spec's

*

Brake adjustment

*

This should get you on your way. I like these little tractors, it is amazing to see how much work they can do.

Good Luck and thanks for using JustAnswer! Donnie

-

-

 

 

Please remember to rate my answer to close this question.

catmastertech
catmastertech, Technician
Category: Construction and Road Equipment
Satisfied Customers: 3,963
Experience: Field service technician for CAT 19 years.
Verified
catmastertech and 87 other Construction and Road Equipment Specialists are ready to help you
Ask your own question now
Was this answer helpful?

How JustAnswer works

step-image
Describe your issueThe assistant will guide you
step-image
Chat 1:1 with a mechanicLicensed Experts are available 24/7
step-image
100% satisfaction guaranteeGet all the answers you need
Ask catmastertech Your Own Question
catmastertech
catmastertech
catmastertech, Technician
Category: Construction and Road Equipment
Satisfied Customers: 3,963
3,963 Satisfied Customers
Experience: Field service technician for CAT 19 years.

catmastertech is online now

Related Construction and Road Equipment Questions
I have a d3c and have lost drive in the left track.
hi I have a d3c and have lost drive in the left track … read more
Daniel Wilson
Daniel Wilson
Auto Mechanics 1&2/diesel mech
1,190 satisfied customers
Right track will not drive it self forward or reverse. It
right track will not drive it self forward or reverse. It moves freely going straight but when I pull left brake it slightly tries to move but doesn't. The previous owner stated mechanic tested the pr… read more
catmastertech
catmastertech
Technician
Vocational, Technical or Trade Scho
3,963 satisfied customers
I have a cat d3c xl series 3 dozer and when driving pull the
I have a cat d3c xl series 3 dozer and when driving pull the right lever and steers just fine pull the left lever and the machine just stops moving and ideas what I could be? … read more
Daniel Wilson
Daniel Wilson
Auto Mechanics 1&2/diesel mech
1,190 satisfied customers
I am having trouble with my D3B 1979 vintage dozer. When I
I am having trouble with my D3B 1979 vintage dozer. When I push pedals to steer, they work fine when machine is cold but the left pedal (in particular) does not disengage power when it has warmed up. … read more
Daniel Wilson
Daniel Wilson
Auto Mechanics 1&2/diesel mech
1,190 satisfied customers
I have a 1994 D3C series 3 Bulldozer serial # 6SL0041. The
I have a 1994 D3C series 3 Bulldozer serial # 6SL0041. The issue is dozer will not turn left. I have replaced the breaker bands and rebuilt the steering valves with new roller bearings and cams. The r… read more
catmastertech
catmastertech
Technician
Vocational, Technical or Trade Scho
3,963 satisfied customers
935b cat left track moves forward then turns left. 935b 3df
935b cat left track moves forward then turns left JA: What is the complete model and serial number of your machine? Customer: 935b 3df 00153 JA: Are you fixing this yourself? What have you tried so fa… read more
catmastertech
catmastertech
Technician
Vocational, Technical or Trade Scho
3,963 satisfied customers
Cat 935b pedal steer when i push on the right steering pedal
cat 935b pedal steer when i push on the right steering pedal the left track stops why … read more
catmastertech
catmastertech
Technician
Vocational, Technical or Trade Scho
3,963 satisfied customers
I have a 1991 d3c series 2 caterpillar bulldozer. I would
I have a 1991 d3c series 2 caterpillar bulldozer. I would like to add oil the clutch compartments … read more
Daniel Wilson
Daniel Wilson
Auto Mechanics 1&2/diesel mech
1,190 satisfied customers
My CAT D3C 1990 model has the typical problem. Main Drive
My CAT D3C 1990 model has the typical problem. Main Drive Clutch pulls the tractor and it pushes just fine for about an hour or less. After it heats up it stutters and eventually stops completely. It … read more
Daniel Wilson
Daniel Wilson
Auto Mechanics 1&2/diesel mech
1,190 satisfied customers
I have a Cat d3b crawler, ser. # *27Y03441* and I need to
I have a Cat d3b crawler, ser. # *27Y03441* and I need to adjust the steering. I have had it adjusted twice but not by experienced mechanics, and it keeps losing adjustment.… read more
catmastertech
catmastertech
Technician
Vocational, Technical or Trade Scho
3,963 satisfied customers
I rebuilt the steering clutches and brakes on a Cat 939
I rebuilt the steering clutches and brakes on a Cat 939 loader. Brakes work well in neutral but steering clutches will not disengage to make a turn. Do the actuator cylinders need bleeding? … read more
Daniel Wilson
Daniel Wilson
Auto Mechanics 1&2/diesel mech
1,190 satisfied customers
1994 Caterpillar D3C Series III Dozer 3046 Caterpillar
1994 Caterpillar D3C Series III Dozer 3046 Caterpillar Engine Power Shift transmission Serial No.: 06SL00567 Can you provide me with the complete information to replace the brake components and final … read more
Daniel Wilson
Daniel Wilson
Auto Mechanics 1&2/diesel mech
1,190 satisfied customers
I have a Cat D3C 6SL01091 It was out on rent, the renter
I have a Cat D3C 6SL01091 It was out on rent, the renter said it quit steering and tried adjusting the the linkages himself. Not sure what he did....I got it back, and it wont steer or stop at all.I t… read more
catmastertech
catmastertech
Technician
Vocational, Technical or Trade Scho
3,963 satisfied customers
Just got a 1989 D3C direct drive. Drove it about a quarter
Just got a 1989 D3C direct drive. Drove it about a quarter mile yesterday. Disengaged and released the flywheel clutch several times which feels very soft. I operated the tractor in all gears and it f… read more
catmastertech
catmastertech
Technician
Vocational, Technical or Trade Scho
3,963 satisfied customers
Im looking at a D3C LGP, it steers great to the right but won't
Im looking at a D3C LGP, it steers great to the right but won't steer to the left. upon investigation i found that the linkage for the left hand brake has been removed due to a modification. would tha… read more
catmastertech
catmastertech
Technician
Vocational, Technical or Trade Scho
3,963 satisfied customers
I have a 1994 D3C, series III CAT dozer. Numbers: 8y8150
I have a 1994 D3C, series III CAT dozer. Numbers: 8y8150 (Engine) 6SLOO202 (Engine) SXK00181 (SN?) 9AE03013 (Transmission) Rearrangement #: 8y150 6I3535 6y6844 (Transmission) (I am familiar with CASE,… read more
catmastertech
catmastertech
Technician
Vocational, Technical or Trade Scho
3,963 satisfied customers
I have a caterpillar 931b track loader..I have a steering problem..the
I have a caterpillar 931b track loader..I have a steering problem..the right side pedal does not stop the track ...the left pedal works great..Are there any adjustments i can make..I pulled the floor … read more
catmastertech
catmastertech
Technician
Vocational, Technical or Trade Scho
3,963 satisfied customers
The left steering clutch keeps losing adjustment and now does
The left steering clutch keeps losing adjustment and now does not work well at all. Is this a job I can fix in my shop without special cat tools, and how is it done. This is a early 90's cat D-4… read more
catmastertech
catmastertech
Technician
Vocational, Technical or Trade Scho
3,963 satisfied customers
Disclaimer: Information in questions, answers, and other posts on this site ("Posts") comes from individual users, not JustAnswer; JustAnswer is not responsible for Posts. Posts are for general information, are not intended to substitute for informed professional advice (medical, legal, veterinary, financial, etc.), or to establish a professional-client relationship. The site and services are provided "as is" with no warranty or representations by JustAnswer regarding the qualifications of Experts. To see what credentials have been verified by a third-party service, please click on the "Verified" symbol in some Experts' profiles. JustAnswer is not intended or designed for EMERGENCY questions which should be directed immediately by telephone or in-person to qualified professionals.

JustAnswer in the News:

Ask-a-doc Web sites: If you've got a quick question, you can try to get an answer from sites that say they have various specialists on hand to give quick answers... Justanswer.com.
JustAnswer.com...has seen a spike since October in legal questions from readers about layoffs, unemployment and severance.
Web sites like justanswer.com/legal
...leave nothing to chance.
Traffic on JustAnswer rose 14 percent...and had nearly 400,000 page views in 30 days...inquiries related to stress, high blood pressure, drinking and heart pain jumped 33 percent.
Tory Johnson, GMA Workplace Contributor, discusses work-from-home jobs, such as JustAnswer in which verified Experts answer people’s questions.
I will tell you that...the things you have to go through to be an Expert are quite rigorous.

What Customers are Saying:

Wonderful service, prompt, efficient, and accurate. Couldn't have asked for more. I cannot thank you enough for your help.

Mary C.Freshfield, Liverpool, UK

This expert is wonderful. They truly know what they are talking about, and they actually care about you. They really helped put my nerves at ease. Thank you so much!!!!

AlexLos Angeles, CA

Thank you for all your help. It is nice to know that this service is here for people like myself, who need answers fast and are not sure who to consult.

GPHesperia, CA

I couldn't be more satisfied! This is the site I will always come to when I need a second opinion.

JustinKernersville, NC

Just let me say that this encounter has been entirely professional and most helpful. I liked that I could ask additional questions and get answered in a very short turn around.

EstherWoodstock, NY

Thank you so much for taking your time and knowledge to support my concerns. Not only did you answer my questions, you even took it a step further with replying with more pertinent information I needed to know.

RobinElkton, Maryland

He answered my question promptly and gave me accurate, detailed information. If all of your experts are half as good, you have a great thing going here.

DianeDallas, TX

< Previous | Next >

Meet the Experts:

Curtis B.

Curtis B.

Technician

2,324 satisfied customers

Technican turned service manager with multiple lines of equipment and rental units.

Wayne

Wayne

Journeyman

1,298 satisfied customers

worked on many road graders, Bull dozers , skid steers, Rollers

Cat Man

Cat Man

Cat Engine Expert

578 satisfied customers

I am ASE Master Certified.

dieseldan55

dieseldan55

Mechanic

299 satisfied customers

Road Mechanic for Volvo Construction Equipment.

Chris (aka- Moose)

Chris (aka- Moose)

Technician

85 satisfied customers

24 years of experience diagnosing & repairing

Steve

Steve

Mechanic

42 satisfied customers

Heavy Equipment Mechanic for 25 years

JBFixxer

JBFixxer

Mechanic

22 satisfied customers

16+ years experience, hydraulics,hydrostatics, engines, fuel injection systems. And everything in between.

< Previous | Next >

Disclaimer: Information in questions, answers, and other posts on this site ("Posts") comes from individual users, not JustAnswer; JustAnswer is not responsible for Posts. Posts are for general information, are not intended to substitute for informed professional advice (medical, legal, veterinary, financial, etc.), or to establish a professional-client relationship. The site and services are provided "as is" with no warranty or representations by JustAnswer regarding the qualifications of Experts. To see what credentials have been verified by a third-party service, please click on the "Verified" symbol in some Experts' profiles. JustAnswer is not intended or designed for EMERGENCY questions which should be directed immediately by telephone or in-person to qualified professionals.

Show MoreShow Less

Ask Your Question

x