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2007 town country won't crank. The starter relay in fuse box…

2007 town country won't...

2007 town country won't crank. The starter relay in fuse box isn't energizing when turning key to start position.

Mechanic's Assistant: Can you turn the steering wheel at all? And what about the key? Is it worn or damaged?

The key turns but won't crank

Mechanic's Assistant: Are you fixing your Country yourself? What have you tried so far?

Yes, starter solonoid and starter good. The starter relay in fuse box is good but won't pull in when turning key to start

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Customer reply replied 5 months ago
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Answered in 11 minutes by:
3/21/2018
Canuck Tech
Canuck Tech, Instructor
Category: Chrysler
Satisfied Customers: 704
Experience: General tune-up tech and electrical diagnostician
Verified

Hi there - have you checked fuse 9, 40 amp in the underhood fuse box?

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If the relay doesn't energize, lets go down another road.

Is the security light on steady?

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Customer reply replied 5 months ago
All the fuses are good. If the security light is just a dot, it goes off in a couple of seconds after the key is turned on.

The powertrain control module controls the ground circuit to the starter relay, so if the PCM doesn't see an input from the ignition switch, it doesn't crank...

Ok, so... having been around the block once or twice, do you have a voltmeter?

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or a test light?

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Customer reply replied 5 months ago
I was able to take cover off starter relay in the fuse box and observe the operation of it. It doesn't energize when i turn key to start but I can get starter to turn if i actuate relay manually and engine doesn't start.
Customer reply replied 5 months ago
i have a volt meter

And when you did this, I'm assuming the key was on, correct?

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Customer reply replied 5 months ago
key was on

So, it would seem the PCM doesn't want to ground the starter relay, and the question becomes... Why?

But, given it cranks when you manually engage the relay , but doesn't start, leads in a different direction.

Key on, engine off, is the Check Engine light on?

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HAve you been able to pull any codes?

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Customer reply replied 5 months ago
I will go grab my OBD2 and look for codes. When i engage relay manually it completed circuit from pin 30 to pin 87 to starter solonoid so its bypassing the need for the PCM to ground(pin 85) of the relay right?

Yes. So you can get it to crank, and that is good.

I'm wondering about the ASD relay and its circuitry and fuse

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Customer reply replied 5 months ago
The battery was disconnected on vehicle earlier so all the codes erased. What and where is ASD relay and what is its function?

ASD provides power to injectors, fuel pump, ignition coil. Should be in the underhood fuse box.

Does the check engine light come on when the key is in the "On" position?

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Fuse 16, 25 amps

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Customer reply replied 5 months ago
The check engine light is on with key on. I found ASD relay and fuse. Fuse is good and swaped out relay with a good one for wipers which is the same. The motor should still crank even if ASD was defective though right.

Yes.

Does you scan tool look at live data, or just pulls and clears codes?

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Customer reply replied 5 months ago
live data also

Old school I would look for power coming out of the yellow wire from the ignition switch to the integrated power module (fuse and relay box) and ultimately to the PCM

New way - I would try and look at the scan data to verify an ignition switch input under cranking conditions, if that data parameter was available.

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Do you have a wiring diagram?

If not, please provide an email address and I can send you some.

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Customer reply replied 5 months ago
my live data is very limited and doesn't show ignition switch input

I just sent some PCM diagrams.

You may be able to access the harness coming off the ignition switch by removing the knee bolster, but you may want to take the column cover off too. I would like to know if there is power coming off the yellow wire from the ignition switch

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Customer reply replied 5 months ago
ok
Customer reply replied 5 months ago
to save time would it make sense to remove starter motor relay in fuse box and put a voltmeter on socket for pin 86

Yes. Good call

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We still need to know if that signal is getting to the PCM as well

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I've sent another diagram. The signal from the ignition switch does go to pin 86, through the fuse box, and then to the powertrain control module. If that signal never reaches the PCM, it won't ground the starter relay, because the PCM won't know you are requesting a start.

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Customer reply replied 5 months ago
i hooked up my + of meter to fuse box socket pin 86 for starter relay and - to battery ground and switched key to start and had no voltage on 20VDC scale

I can't see that being good...

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Being the paranoid type I am, i would do the same on pin 85, just in case something is labelled incoorectly...

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Customer reply replied 5 months ago
yep, looking at the last diagram you sent it looks to me that the yellow wire comes directly from ignition switch with no other relays to fuse box starter relay pin 86, is that correct
Customer reply replied 5 months ago
we think alike i did try 85 also and same result

LOL.

Yes. It puts us back at the ignition switch, and maybe even further back up the line to power supply to the switch...

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Customer reply replied 5 months ago
i'm looking at diagram you sent and also cover for fuse box, i don't see any where the corrisponding numbers for the fuses. where can i find the fuse numbers that you refered to earlier

for the ignition switch?

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Customer reply replied 5 months ago
i want to make sure i check ALL the proper fuses. are there any other fuses outside the under hood fuse box for my car

Fuse 9 was on the high current side of the relay, which is OK, because you could get it to crank

I'll see what provides power to the ignition switch - probably some fusible links, but I'll dig for some info

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Fuse 23, integrated power module, same box as the starter relay.

I'll look for more power supplies to the switch. That should be the one.

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sent another diagram

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Customer reply replied 5 months ago
how do i find out which fuse is #23

Should be labelled, underside of the cover... 23 is a 10 amp, should be hot all the time

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sorry i just saw your previous comment regarding the cover for the fuse box... I'll dig

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Customer reply replied 5 months ago
i found what i think is fuse #23 10amp ign switch. Fuse is good and power is on fuse

puts you back to the switch - found a pic - on the way...

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It could be the ignition switch... or the yellow wire from the switch to the IPM, or the IPM

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Customer reply replied 5 months ago
guess i'll start taking apart covers for steering column. curious where the PCM is located

I don't think you are going to the pcm... but picture sent...

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Customer reply replied 5 months ago
just wanted to know where it was actually located in the vehicle

Not a problem. If I was in charge of the engineering to build this van, i don't think I would have put it in the LF wheel well...

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Customer reply replied 5 months ago
guess this is as far as you can go, now its up to me. thanks for the help

Well, yes... I'm curious as to what you find.

Thanks for your patience!

Todd

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Customer reply replied 5 months ago
thanks again
Customer reply replied 5 months ago
do you have a diagram of ignition switch and the associated wiring to it
Customer reply replied 5 months ago
sorry, i see it in the diagram you sent earlier

No problem.

Canuck Tech
Canuck Tech, Instructor
Category: Chrysler
Satisfied Customers: 704
Experience: General tune-up tech and electrical diagnostician
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