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Do Chryslers qualify for assistance? 2004 Chrysler 2.7 l…

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Do Chryslers qualify for...

Do Chryslers qualify for assistance?

Mechanic's Assistant: Okay, I'll connect you to the mechanic to discuss this further with you. Before I do, is there anything else you want him to know?

2004 Chrysler 2.7 l gas, just replaced water pump. Used Cloyes kit for chains, tensioners, sprockets, etc. all matched original parts exactly. Installed by the book. But can't get it to hand crank 360 degrees without interference. Crank sprocket mark, primary chain link and oil pump arrow lined up; L timing sensor sprocket bolted to cam with primary chain link and sprocket ***** *****ned up and at approx.12 O'clock; Secondary chain 12 pin spacing and links lined up on cam sprockets dots and intake sprocket dot at 90 degrees from cam cover edge; R bank installed and aligned the same way; R primary sprocket loose on intake cam nose; At this point I can hand spin engine 360 d.; The two threaded receiver holes on R intake cam nose and 2 holes in R primary sprocket are approx.90 degrees apart. If I spin R cams to align and bolt the sprocket to the cam nose receiver I get interference at approx. 1 O'clock. Reversing the spin does not change the interference. I want to know how to fix this please.

Mechanic's Assistant: Okay, I'll connect you to the mechanic to go over that information regarding your Dodge. Before I do, is there anything else you want him to know?

Nope, everything else is going well.. Mahalo

Submitted: 4 months ago.Category: Chrysler
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Answered in 2 hours by:
3/14/2018
Chrysler Mechanic: Robert R, ASE Certified Technician replied 4 months ago
Robert R
Robert R, ASE Certified Technician
Category: Chrysler
Satisfied Customers: 4,800
Experience: 28 years experience, ASE Master Certified, Chrysler Master Certified, Sprinter Van Certified
Verified

Hello, welcome and thanks for asking your question. My name is*****'m a Certified Auto Technician with 30+ years experience. I will do my best to assist you. please keep in mind that I may need to ask questions of you before I can answer. When you reply please feel free to add as much detailed information as possible pertaining to your concern.

Is it possible for you to take some pics of the alignment showing all timing marks and dots? If you can do that and post the pics here, I will definitely be able to help... Click Here for Document Upload Instructions

Keep me posted...

Thank you,

Robert

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
Will take some time. Sorry
Chrysler Mechanic: Robert R, ASE Certified Technician replied 4 months ago

Take your time. I'll be here whenever you are ready to continue.

Thank you,

Robert

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
Robert RAloha!!!Here’s the info,2004 Chrysler Sebring Limited Convertible 2.7L gas. 135,000 easy miles and ZERO sludge.Blew water pump so since the car is such a beauty we decided to keep her and are doing a minor restoration and “fettling”. Car photo from 2016, engine parts from last night.Part of that process is to replace timing chain and tensioners and sprockets with the water pump. Bought a Cloyes kit 9-0397SA (I believe that’s the #) All parts were identical to existing (E.) and looked like little jewels.Disassembled and installed by the book (Cloyes utube video). Also have the Diamler Chrysler Servic e Manual. All alignment marks right on. Problem is that the right bank sprocket holes that are used to bolt the sprocket to the ears on the cam are about 90 degrees off aligning to the ears. Cloyes says they never heard of the problem before and the might be off aligning by ½ inch because of springs. When I move the cam assembly to align the holes, I get interference. If I flip the cam assembly ears 180 degrees I get interference in a different spot. (Hand turned with a ratchet clockwise at the crank bolt.)PHOTOS COMING.SORRYMAHALO!!!What do you think?
Chrysler Mechanic: Robert R, ASE Certified Technician replied 4 months ago

Is this interference that you are experiencing when turning the cam an interference to where it will NOT continue to rotate or is this interference like a spring tension that springs back after you release the turning force?

Please post the pics and I will have a better idea...

Keep me posted...

Thank you,

Robert

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
interference seems to be a dead stop, i have an 18" ratchet on the crank sprocket and I hesitate to lean on it too hard. I understand your point - but there is the abnormality of the sprocket being so far off aligning. Cloyes video and Service Manual show just 1 or 2 degrees. I have to turn the cam set almost 90 to align holes.Did you get photos in last emails?
Customer reply replied 4 months ago
photos again
BEAUTY6.jpegBEAUTY6.jpegBEAUTY.jpegBEAUTY.jpegBEAUTY2.jpegBEAUTY2.jpegBEAUTY3.jpegBEAUTY3.jpegBEAUTY4.jpegBEAUTY4.jpegBEAUTY5.jpegBEAUTY5.jpegBEAUTY6.jpegBEAUTY6.jpeg
Chrysler Mechanic: Robert R, ASE Certified Technician replied 4 months ago

I have the photos, let me review them and I'll get back with you asap...

Thank you,

Robert

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Chrysler Mechanic: Robert R, ASE Certified Technician replied 4 months ago

Are you rotating the Crankshaft or the Camshaft when you are trying to align the bolt holes for the cam sprocket?

The pics are too close up, making it a bit hard for me to determine what side it is taken from , is it possible for you to get wider angle pics that actually show all of the factory timing marks? When you first installed the timing chain, did you use the plated links to help you align the timing marks?

Did you remove the two secondary timing chains at all during this process??

Keep me posted...

Thank you,

Robert

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
ROTATING CAM SET ON RIGHT BANK
REPLACED SECONDARY TIMING CHAINS. DOTS ON SECONDARY SPROCKETS AT 90 DEGREES FROM HEAD AND 12 PINS APART SEE LAST PICTURE JUST SENT
PLATED LINKS SETTINGS ARE CORRECT:
SINGLE LINK AT CRANK SPROCKET/OIL PUMP ARROW, TIMING MARK ON CRANK
L HEAD TIMING SPROCKET DOT ON TOOTH BETWEEN 2 PLATED LINKS SPROCKET SITS AT 12 OCLOCK
R HEAD DOT ON TOOTH ALIGNS WITH SINGLE PLATED LINK, SPROCKET SITS AT 12 OCLOCK
WILL SHOOT MORE PIX.
DO YOU AGREE HIGHLY UNLIKELY THE R BANK INTAKE CAM EARS FITTING HAS SPUN OUT OF ALIGNMENT/
Chrysler Mechanic: Robert R, ASE Certified Technician replied 4 months ago

Yes it is highly unlikely that the cam has separated as you describe.

It is DEFINITELY NORMAL for you to have to rotate the cam nearly 90 degrees to align the sprocket bolt holes. Definitely NOT 2 or 3 degrees movement.

I'm still a bit confused about the interference in the engine. Is this interference being felt AFTER you bolt the cam sprocket to the cam and you are rotating the crankshaft or is this interference happening WHILE you are rotating the camshaft to align with the sprocket bolt holes??

Keep me posted...

Thank you,

Robert

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
ok
HOPE THESE PIX ARE MORE ILLUSTRATIVE.
To directly answer your question. I get interference after everything is bolted up and I try a hand rotation. back out the cam bearing cap bolts and we can pass the interference, re-tighten the bolts and sometimes encounter another brick wall.So,here's where we are right now.
All bolts seated tight but not torqued, all chain guides in place, primary and secondary tensioners have been released, both primary chain sprockets are NOT bolted to intake cam ears, all timing marks and plated links are highlighted in white for visibility,1 photo shows L head timing sprocket chain raised so you can see the timing mark, dots on all 4 secondary chain sprockets are 90 degrees from head surface and match plated chain links 12 pins apart, primary sprockets are as close to 12 o'clock as possible keeping the timing marks on the sprockets aligned with the plated chain links.Ready for attachment of primary chain sprockets to intake cam end ears. Without bolts connecting these 2 parts, engine can be easily hand cranked with no interference and travel 360 degrees EITHER DIRECTION is nice and smooth.What do I connect first, what do I turn - crank or cam, what direction, is it clockwise facing the front of the engine sprockets or clockwise from the rear as normal from the driver's seat, if the shortest distance is to turn (whatever) backwards - should I do that or just keep spinning it clockwise until it comes around and lines up - tried this second method and encountered interference I assume because as soon as the crank is not on the arrow which is the zero-interference spot we find a valve protruding into the piston space; I got by this problem by backing out all the cam bearing crank bolts until clear but that makes a big job even bigger and has to be repeated for every interference from all 4 cams.Are we having fun yet?photos attached
Resized_20180317_110827.jpegResize...jpegResized_20180317_112930...jpegResize...jpegResized_20180317_113659...jpegResize...jpegResized_20180317_113837...jpegResize...jpegResized_20180317_113918.jpegResize...jpegResized_20180317_115806.jpegResize...jpegResized_20180317_120214.jpegResize...jpegResized_20180317_114018.jpegResize...jpeg
Chrysler Mechanic: Robert R, ASE Certified Technician replied 4 months ago

Ok let me look over all pics and do some research on this but something that you posted is making me think twice. The fact that you are loosening the cam bearing cap bolts may well be where you problem is at, especially being that you did replace the secondary timing chains. I suspect what may be happening now is that since the cam bearing caps have been loose, the hydraulic valve lash adjusters are "Over Extended" due to the oil inside. This is causing the valves to be protruding too far into the combustion chamber when the pistons are coming up and around causing the piston to contact a valve. What I am going to suggest is to NOT loosen the cam bearing cap bolts but to leave the engine in that position for at least 10 to 15 minutes. After the wait time, attempt to rotate in the same direction (clockwise) and see if it will at that time easily pass through your "interference point". If it does, then my theory is likely correct. This wait time allows the affected lifter (Hydraulic lash adjuster) to bleed down enough to allow for piston to valve clearance.

In the mean time, before you finish bolting everything up, let me go over your pics and I'll let you know if you are assembling it correctly.

I'll be back with you asap, thanks for your patience and understanding while I research this for you...

Thank you,

Robert

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Chrysler Mechanic: Robert R, ASE Certified Technician replied 4 months ago

Ok, I found something, it appears that your right side camshaft sprocket is improperly installed. When the primary chain is installed before rotating camshafts into position both cam sprockets MUST be in this position --->> Click Here to view <<---

Yours appears to be in the wrong orientation, this is why you are needing to rotate the right camshaft too far to insert the bolts. You may need to flip the sprocket around and line up the plated links properly. --->> Click Here to view <<---

After properly installing the timing chain and sprockets, rotate the camshafts making the slot in the camshaft front appear in the same orientation as shown in the pic I posted above.

Also, it is not necessary to use the vise grips to rotate the camshafts, there is a square hole in the front of the camshafts that allows the use of a 3/8 drive square extension to rotate the cam assemblies... --->> Click Here to view <<---

Keep me posted and let me know if you have any additional questions...

Thank you,

Robert

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Chrysler Mechanic: Robert R, ASE Certified Technician replied 4 months ago

Hello,

I'm checking back with you to see if you have gotten it succesfully reassembled. One thing to note that is not too clear in your pics, The plated links should be able to be seen from the FRONT of the engine as shown in the illustration I posted above (black and white). It almost looks like you have the plated links BEHIND the cam sprockets???

Remember, I'm here when you need to continue...

Keep me posted...

Thank you,

Robert

______________________________________

If you need additional information, don't hesitate to ask, I am happy to help as long as necessary to help solve your concern. Remember, a "Positive" Rating will not close this question, You can post a reply here whenever you want, even after rating my answer! .

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