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sprinkles08
sprinkles08, ASE Certified Technician
Category: Chrysler
Satisfied Customers: 23001
Experience:  ASE Master & Advanced level certified, Chrysler Master Certified, Trans and Hybrid Specialist
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Where do I test the fuel pump at. would it be at the relay?

Customer Question

Where do I test the fuel pump at. would it be at the relay? What more details would you like?
Submitted: 1 year ago.
Category: Chrysler
Expert:  George H. replied 1 year ago.

Hello I will help you with your question,

To check fuel pressure on this vehicle you need a fuel line adapter as shown in the procedure here. >click<

Let me know if you have further questions

Thank you

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
The car will not start and there is no fuel pump noise coming from the tank when key is on
Expert:  Juan Crespo replied 1 year ago.

Hi there. Perhaps I can help, but first I need some information from you:

  • Will the engine start if you spray starting fluid down the throttle?
  • Are the injectors being pulsed on and off by the computer?
  • What tools do you have available to help you diagnose this issue?
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I will try the starting fluid tomorrow, the only diagnostic tool I gave is an analog multimeter, and I don't gave a clue on the injectors being pulsed
Expert:  Juan Crespo replied 1 year ago.

I truly wish there was a way I could help you, unfortunately all the technical knowledge in the world won't help you if you don't have the necessary tools to diagnose and repair your car.

Best Regards.

Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 1 year ago.

Hello and welcome to JustAnswer!

If you needed to test for power at the fuel pump you would need to drop the fuel tank and check for power at the pump connector while cycling the key or cranking the engine.

Do you have spark?
Have you checked fuses?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I have spark, I can't find a fuse or relay for the fuel pump. In my Chilton manual it shows a test connector, I read somewhere it is under the back seat, do you know anything about that?
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 1 year ago.

The fuel pump check terminal is at the firewall just to the right of center.

Do you have one wire at the fuel injectors with power while cranking?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Is that terminal a place I can check the fuel pump? I don't know about power at the injectors, do I test that with a multimeter?
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 1 year ago.

Yes, you can test for power at the injectors with the voltmeter.

Testing for power at the fuel pump would be done at the pump connector after dropping the fuel tank. If you have power at the injectors while cranking you know the MFI relay has power and is being controlled, leaving the fuel pump, an open power or ground wire to it the only possible causes for the pump not running.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Ok, I won't be able to do anymore work on it until Thursday, I will let you know my results then, thank you for the assistance
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 1 year ago.

You're welcome!

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
both wires have power at the injectors in ON and during crank, I will be dropping the tank tomorrow
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 1 year ago.

Great!

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I may have more problems to deal with after this as the car was not running very well before, and you seem to know these cars quite well. Will you be able to help me later if necessary or will I need to start a new feed?
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 1 year ago.

The site does ask that a separate question page be opened for unrelated issues but we'll see how it goes once you get it running.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I tried to get it taking care of a while back but no one was able to help me, but I would be more then happy to start a new one if you could help me out, I can request you correct?
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 1 year ago.

Yes, you can always request me when opening a new question.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Cool, thank you and it would be awesome if I could click on "view my question" when you respond and it takes me to just answer, but it doesn't, I have to click on other peoples responses to get there. If you can do anything about that then it would be awesome
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 1 year ago.

If you're referring to a link in an email you're getting when I respond it should have a link to your own question. If it's sending you somewhere else then it's a site bug attaching the wrong email link.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Yeah, and it's a pain in the butt
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 1 year ago.

Unfortunately I'm unable fix it personally but I will report the issue.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Thank you and good thing the other guy I'm talking to doesn't get points for how often I click on him
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 1 year ago.

You're welcome!

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I have no power at the pump in the ON position, there is power at the gauge sending unit if that matters
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 1 year ago.

Are you checking when cycling the key from off to on or cranking? It won't have power just with the key on.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
There is power while cranking but not off to on
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 1 year ago.

If there is power at the pump when cranking but the pump doesn't run then you'll just need to make sure the pump's ground is present, if ok then replace the pump.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
There is ground the wire that connects to the pump inside the tank bends like 180 degrees and it doesn't look to good
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
One of the wires has no continuity when moved
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 1 year ago.

You'll want to repair or replace the ground wire then if it looks damaged or corroded. If you have power at the pump then the problem has to be the pump or loss of ground.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Gonna replace it all since I have it out anyways
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 1 year ago.

That's not a bad idea since the tank is out already.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Ok, we had it running but it's being a pain and won't stay running, can that be in part to needing to build up fuel pressure? Had it running for a couple minutes then died and fires but dies immediately now
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 1 year ago.

As long as the pump is running constantly with the engine running and developing enough pressure then you should be able to rule out the pump. Do you have access to a fuel pressure gauge?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I can get a gauge but I don't have access to the special adapter this car needs, and this problem may be part of the ongoing problem I have been having with the car, just before it wouldn't die immediately, only if you let up off the gas
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 1 year ago.

The problem is only that it won't idle without throttle then?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
right now it won't idle at all. it fires right up but no matter what I do with the throttle, it will die immediately, I've tried all the way to the floor, half throttle, no throttle, and pumping it nothing makes a difference
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 1 year ago.

Is it backfiring through the throttle body at all? If so can you see if it will stay running on carb cleaner?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
no backfire
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 1 year ago.

Can you see if it will stay running on carb cleaner sprayed into the throttle body?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I can but it probably won't be until tomorrow when I can get some
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Do I do just short bursts of it once it starts?
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 1 year ago.

Yes, a constant spray will most likely be too much but short bursts will keep it running if the dying problem is a lack of fuel.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
What would cause a lack of fuel with a new pump and strainer?
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 1 year ago.

The pump itself, a poor power or ground or possibly a restricted filter. I've seen many aftermarket fuel pumps that had problems out of the box. I had one truck that got four in a row without leaving before getting a new factory part. I'm assuming you used an aftermarket pump and we need to see if there is still a fuel supply issue.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Is carb cleaner the only thing I could use? I have MAF cleaner and brake cleaner but don't want to use something that will screw it up
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 1 year ago.

Brake cleaner would most likely work.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Guess it will have to wait, my brake cleaner had no aerosol in it
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 1 year ago.

Let me know how it goes!

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
New development, went out to try and start it again, it fired right up, stayed running until I took my foot off the gas, fired up every time, stayed running if I stayed on the gas. Would not stay running once I put it in gear no matter what.
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 1 year ago.

Is the engine light on?
Do you have a scan tool to monitor data?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I knew you were gonna ask that eventually yes it is I can not check it I have tried with with a voltmeter and with a scan tool. I'm sure my connector is messed up
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
here is everything from before the fuel pump problem until now. before hard to start when cold, longer it sat the harder it was.Would not move without dying until warmed up, once warmed up, ran decent, died occassinally, now it is starting right up and sounds awesome with acceleration, but put it in gear, and it will move once warmed up but will die when you stop if not on the gas peddle
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I really feel like I owe you a lot more then you're getting for this
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 1 year ago.

Did the scan tool not power up and you have no power at the data link connector?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
It wasn't showing anything at all at the link
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 1 year ago.

The voltmeter?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
the voltmeter or the scan tool
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 1 year ago.

Do you have the VIN?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I can get it
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
jp3ea21axru006884
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 1 year ago.

Can you check fusible link 6 in the power distribution center under the hood?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I can if you can tell me where the heck that is
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 1 year ago.

It will be next to the battery or on the left strut tower.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
What will i be checking for?
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 1 year ago.

To see if it is blown.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
They all look good, at least they all look the same
Customer: replied 1 year ago.
What is fusible link 6 for?
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 1 year ago.

It powers the data link connector. If the fuse is good then there has to be an open circuit between the fuse and the DLC or there is a connection problem at the DLC. You're going to need to start by seeing what fault codes are set, I would recommend either repairing the DLC issue or supplying it with another power feed on the red/blue wire so you can get the scan tool working.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Oh now you're getting difficult, how would that work, supplying it with another power feed I mean?
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 1 year ago.

You'd need to connect a fused jumper wire between a positive battery voltage source and the red/blue wire at the DLC.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Will that allow me to read it with the voltmeter? Otherwise I have to get it to a parts store as I don't have a scan tool of my own
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 1 year ago.

A parts store isn't likely to have a code reader that will work on this because it's an OBDI system but you can try. You can't read fault codes with a voltmeter. The first step will be to see what codes are setting and testing will need to be done from there, monitoring data with an actual scan tool may be necessary.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
ok, this may be an ongoing process as I am not sure of my work hours this week, but I will let you know of my progress as it happens. Thanks again for all your help
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 1 year ago.

You're welcome!

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
What shape is my diagnostic link?
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 1 year ago.

There is a 16 way connector to the left of the junction block under the dash and a 12 way to the right of it. The 16 way should be the one you want. I thought you had already determined there was no power at the connector previously.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Yeah but myself and the auto parts store where checking the 12 pin, so maybe its fine after all. I am borrowing a scan tool tonight but I don't know if it has the adapter I need but I will keep you posted
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 1 year ago.

Ok.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Is the Colt OBDI or is it DRBII? I have had people tell me different things? Also, would you like me to rate you so you can get compensated?
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 1 year ago.

You can rate my performance any time you wish.

It's OBDI because it's pre 1996 but I'm showing an OBDII shaped data link connector.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I guess I didn't tell you everything about this vehicle because I didn't know if I needed to start a new feed for it. We replaced the motor about 6 months ago. We did not replace or change any sensors. We had the same problem with the old motor just not as bad, So in my opinion, it is a sensor on the vehicle. Does that help at all?
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 1 year ago.

That doesn't narrow down possible causes for the problem. There are dozens of things that will turn the engine light on and the first step in diagnosing the problem is seeing what fault codes have set.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Something I forgot to mention is we changed from an EGR engine to a non EGR engine so I know that will set a code
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 1 year ago.

Yes, that would set a fault code.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
ok, I'm back with a new issue, not as bad. Couldn't pull codes so started testing parts, cts good, tps good, pull the spark plugs, they were fouled. cleaned and gapped them put it all back together fired right up. would not idle until it warmed up then it would idle but, the idle dives and rises consistenly but only in park. I wouldn't call it a rough idle as it is pretty much up and down. Does fine in gear does idle down a bit in gear but it has always done that. And, the check engine light is now off. I have checked all the vaccuum hoses I could find for leaks. Any ideas? Thanks
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 1 year ago.

A fluctuating idle is usually caused by an erratic signal from the TPS. Try unplugging the TPS or tapping on it to see if the idle settles down.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Nope didn't make a difference but it does smooth out when I turn on the AC
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 1 year ago.

I would use carb cleaner to make sure there are no vacuum leaks and you can also clean the throttle body and idle air control motor. The idle air control motor may need to be replaced if the engine is running correctly but won't idle.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
should I remove the throttle body and IAC motor to clean them?
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 1 year ago.

Yes.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
use the carb cleaner if its safe for sensors or should I get something specifically for throttle body
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 1 year ago.

You can use carb cleaner or throttle body cleaner.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I will do that soon as I can get the gaskets if I can find one for the IAC, may have to make one
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 1 year ago.

Ok.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
went back to a no start condition, sounds like it wasn't getting spark, replaced the plugs made sure all the wires were tight still nothing. Ran great last night, my girlfriend took it on a 100 miles round trip with no problems.
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 1 year ago.

You need to start by seeing if you're missing spark or fuel.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
The latest on the Colt,checked for spark, had it. Could hear the fuel pump running and could smell fuel, so assumed fuel pump was working. Had to buy a battery for my other car yesterday so thought what the heck, threw it in the Colt, it started after probably 4 attempts. Wouldn't idle after warming up for 10 minutes. Bought a battery for the Colt today, started after 4 or 5 seconds ran it for 10 to 15 minutes would barely idle. My girlfriend went out 10 minutes later, turned the key not giving it any gas, fired right up and idled great. When she put it in gear it would still idle just not as well. Seems to be hesitating in gear.
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 1 year ago.

Does it just not idle with the throttle closed?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
otherwise it sounds really good
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 1 year ago.

There is an issue with the IAC then, either the IAC itself or it's wiring, or the engine controller needing to learn the IAC step count. Try starting the engine and raising the RPM's to about 2,000. Very slowly close the throttle, slow enough that it takes thirty seconds or more. Try this a couple times if necessary and see if that helps.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I tried it but it didn't seem to make a difference, can the IAC cause it to flood if you let die when it is cold? It's done that the last 2 times we started it and tried to see if it would idle.
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 1 year ago.

Yes, if the IAC isn't working then not allowing air into the engine with the throttle can cause it to flood when cold.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Is there a way to test it?
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 1 year ago.

A scan tool is needed for proper testing of the IAC. The wiring can be tested but testing the IAC and drivers requires a scan tool.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
I still haven't cleaned it, do you think that might help?
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 1 year ago.

Yes, I recommended cleaning the IAC and throttle body to see if that helped.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Cleaned the throttle body and IAC as best I could. Still starts great, doesn't want to idle when cold still, and is back to the heartbeat idle once warmed up in park and neutral, idles great in gear, guess it's time for an IAC. Will the IAC cause the engine to buck when you let off the idle? My guess is it will.
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 1 year ago.

Please accept or decline the additional services offer shown on your screen.

The IAC can cause an idle undershoot, high idle or an idle fluctuation.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
How does the IAC cause hard starts in the morning but not once the car is warmed up? In the morning I have to try to start it 3 or 4 times each time after 12 to 15 minutes. I have to press the accelerator or it doesn't sound like its trying to fire at all, with pressing the accelerator, I hear it trying to fire but eventually floods, hence the wait. On the 3rd or 4th try, it will finally fire and runs good but won't idle until it warms up. Then once it is warm, it idles fine, run great, an even after 8 hours of sitting it fires right up but still need to press th accelerator. So why does the IAC seem to work whe?n warm but not cold
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 1 year ago.

More fuel is injected when the engine is cold and if the IAC isn't opening far enough it can cause flooding when cold if you don't open the throttle.

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
But why won't it start when I manually open the throttle the first 2 or 3 times?
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 1 year ago.

You may have more than one issue going on. Being able to monitor data and check for codes may e necessary to accurately diagnose the problems.

Is the engine light back on?

Customer: replied 1 year ago.
Expert:  sprinkles08 replied 1 year ago.

It's imperative that you find out what codes are setting.