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2003 Chrysler: 140,000 miles..die..intermittently..15 min…

I have a 2003 Chrysler...
I have a 2003 Chrysler town and country lxi 3.8 liter with 140,000 miles. The engine just started to die during idle, and driving intermittently for the first 15 min or so of running. No check engine light comes on could this be bad coil? I asked a mechanic friend what he thought. He said without a code it's hard to say. Just wondering if this is a common problem.
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Answered in 11 minutes by:
7/14/2010
Ricardo Hohl
Ricardo Hohl, Master Certified Tech
Category: Chrysler
Satisfied Customers: 4,343
Experience: Automotive instructor at Porter and Chester institute
Verified
hi, this engine has one coil for every 2 cylinders and 3 coil drivers control by the computer and it would be impossible for all the coils to just go bad , and also very rare to see the coil drivers on the computer go bad all at ones it would ussualy be one and that will only cause a misfire , the problem with the stall and no start until after a couple of minutes is the crank sensor its overheated and shorting out the pcm signal that controls the coil drivers in the computer this sensor is located between the transmission and engine .and needs to be replace , this sensor when shorted to ground will not leave a code present , therefore there will be no engine light present.
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago
It will start right up after it dies, no waiting. And it seems that when it heats up it is fine.
ok, sorry my mistake , if the engine is only affected when cold or upon reaching temperatures then the problem has to do with the idle speed control valve possibly dirty to the point were its not metering air and causing the engine to stall , this valve controls idle when engine is in the process of reaching temperature ones it does the idle control motor will go in to a fix mode and respond only when load is detected like a/c compressor or power steering pressure or transmission shifting from park to drive or reverse..this valve in time gets carbonize and prevents the valve from sealing the orifice wear the air will flow to compensate the idle rpm. remove the valve and clean the tip, and also clean the throtle plate with choke cleaner , disconnect the negative side of the battery before doing this.
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago
So this would cause it to die even during acceleration and a steady 45mph?
no, this will happing only at deceleration and at idle, you never mention about stalls at hi acceleration? does it stalls on throtle return,or while on the throtle accelerating?
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago
Return, today is the first day it has done it. I think it stalled twice wile holding at a constant speed. And probably 20-30 times slowing or at a idle.
yes ok, then that is the idle air control valve , clean the valve and also the throttle plate make sure the battery is disconnected.
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago
Where is the valve, can I find a picture online? I used to be a mechanic about 15 years ago lol a lot has changed. I just build old motors. But my newest has crank trigger ignition and nitrous injection. All computer controlled, but still easier than this van!
please copy or print this page right away.

REMOVAL
When servicing throttle body components, always reassemble components with new O-rings and seals where applicable. Never use lubricants on O-rings or seals, damage may result. If assembly of component is difficult, use water to aid assembly. Use care when removing hoses to prevent damage to hose or hose nipple.

  1. Disconnect negative cable from battery.

Fig. 17 Idle Air Control Valve Location

  1. Remove electrical connector from idle air control motor.
  2. Remove idle air control motor mounting screws.
  3. Remove motor from throttle body. Ensure the O-rings is removed with the motor.

INSTALLATION

Fig. 18 O-rings

When servicing throttle body components, always reassemble components with new O-rings and seals where applicable. Never use lubricants on O-rings or seals, damage may result. If assembly of component is difficult, a light coat of engine oil may be applied to the O-RINGS ONLY to aid assembly. Use care when removing hoses to prevent damage to hose or hose nipple.

  1. Carefully place idle air control motor into throttle body.
  2. Install mounting screw. Tighten screws to 2.5 Nm (22.1 in. lbs.) torque.
  3. Connect electrical connector to idle air control motor.
  4. Connect negative cable to battery.

3.3L/3.8L


The idle air control motor is mounted on the throttle body.

 

Ricardo Hohl
Ricardo Hohl, Master Certified Tech
Category: Chrysler
Satisfied Customers: 4,343
Experience: Automotive instructor at Porter and Chester institute
Verified
Ricardo Hohl and 87 other Chrysler Specialists are ready to help you
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago
Sorry, I just got your response. None of the images show up. Are they pdf, jpeg, gif? I can't see any of them. Today I had the van for the entire day. Id had no problems cold. All the stalling happened at operating temp. I am baffeled. The check engine light came on and I stoped and had the code read. It came up with fuel system. This code has come up twice before and been reset. The times it came up before there was no problems with the engine stalling.
Customer reply replied 8 years ago
Thank you for all your help, I hope that I will be able to see the images that you sent!
what are the code # XXXXX are getting?
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago
They didn't tell me the code# XXXXX that it was fuel system. Said it could be bad vacum. I can stop and have it checked again tomorrow. I'm more than happy to pay more to not have to take it in if we can figure this out.
graphichere they are ag

REMOVAL
When servicing throttle body components, always reassemble components with new O-rings and seals where applicable. Never use lubricants on O-rings or seals, damage may result. If assembly of component is difficult, use water to aid assembly. Use care when removing hoses to prevent damage to hose or hose nipple.

  1. Disconnect negative cable from battery.

Fig. 17 Idle Air Control Valve Location

  1. Remove electrical connector from idle air control motor.
  2. Remove idle air control motor mounting screws.
  3. Remove motor from throttle body. Ensure the O-rings is removed with the motor.

INSTALLATION

Fig. 18 O-rings

When servicing throttle body components, always reassemble components with new O-rings and seals where applicable. Never use lubricants on O-rings or seals, damage may result. If assembly of component is difficult, a light coat of engine oil may be applied to the O-RINGS ONLY to aid assembly. Use care when removing hoses to prevent damage to hose or hose nipple.

  1. Carefully place idle air control motor into throttle body.
  2. Install mounting screw. Tighten screws to 2.5 Nm (22.1 in. lbs.) torque.
  3. Connect electrical connector to idle air control motor.
ain.
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago
tomorrow is payday, I would have left more tip for all your help but I am low in that account. If we get this figured out I will pay more no problem!!!!!
ok, copy the pages i just send you or print them right away. and yes it will be a good idea to find out what codes keep coming back ,it will make diagnostics a lot easier. i am not worry about the pay so you dont worry lest fix this thing first ok.
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago
Okay, I printed them off. So you want me to clean it with fuelinjector/carbclean, the reinstall. I looked on Autozones website and I can't find just the O-rings. Will it be good just to clean and reinstall, or should I try to find the o-rings somewhere tomorrow?
just remove and clean it no o rings, and don't forget clean the throtle plate and disconnect the battery before any thing is done
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago
Okay, the codes are p1391 p0455 p1684 p0320. It also stalled today while holding at about 2000 rpm. Thanks again!
P1391 - INTERMITTENT LOSS OF CMP OR CKP

WHEN MONITORED
Engine running or cranking.

SET CONDITION
When the failure counter reaches 20 for 2 consecutive trips.

POSSIBLE CAUSES


P0320 - NO CRANK REFERENCE SIGNAL AT PCM

WHEN MONITORED
Engine cranking. Battery voltage greater than 10.4 volts .

SET CONDITION
No CKP signal is present during engine cranking, and at least 8 camshaft position sensor signals have occurred.

POSSIBLE CAUSES

  • Intermittent CKP signal
  • Intermittent CMP signal
  • Intermittent wiring
  • Intermittent condition
  • (F888) 8-Volt supply circuit open
  • (F888) 8-Volt supply circuit shorted to ground
  • (F888) 8-volt supply circuit shorted to voltage
  • (K24) CKP sensor signal circuit open
  • (K24) CKP sensor signal circuit shorted to ground
  • (K24) CKP sensor signal circuit shorted to voltage
  • (K24) CKP sensor signal shorted to (F888) 8-Volt supply circuit
  • (K900) sensor ground circuit Open
  • PCM
  • Crankshaft Position Sensor

 


this codes are the most serious codes on the ist you gave me and are the real problem as to why the stall condition you have a cam and crank sensor not in sync.

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Customer reply replied 8 years ago
I just bought a crank sensor, should I get the cam sensor also? And where are they located? The battery code is because I just replaced it.
yes get the cam sensor and replace it.graphic
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago
Just the cam sensor? Or change both? If i have to do the crank position sensor to could you send a diagram of that? Thanks again, and how to I tip you more? You have been very helpful!!!!
yes here it goes.graphic
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