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Grand Voyager: Plymouth..a sudden none of the guages are working

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I have a 96 Plymouth...
I have a 96 Plymouth Grand Voyager and all of a sudden none of the guages are working. It's not a fuse problem and everything else seems to be working fine. The only idiot light that displays is "check guages"
Submitted: 8 years ago.Category: Chrysler
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Answered in 6 minutes by:
8/21/2009
Chrysler Mechanic: John, triple chrysler master tech replied 8 years ago
John
John, triple chrysler master tech
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Satisfied Customers: 2,251
Experience: 43 years,triple chrys ,ase master tech,l1,t2 b5 a1-a8 Hev spec.
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Hi my name is John.

Did you go through a very wet place?

Have you tried disconnecting the negitive battery cable for 1 minute?

If you slap the top of the dash above the cluster will the gauges start working?
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

John,

Haven't been through any water. This is in California, a very dry place this time of year. I did just now try disconnecting the negative cable and slapping the dash and still no guages.

Chrysler Mechanic: John, triple chrysler master tech replied 8 years ago
I would check connector b33 under the battery for battery acid or moisture in side of it.Cold have carbon tracking also.

graphic
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Chrysler Mechanic: John, triple chrysler master tech replied 8 years ago
Next check ground Check G104 ground on the right front inter fender next to TCM.
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

John,

I did print out your diagram, but can't find the bulkhead that b33 mounts to. There is no acid under the battery or moisture on the side. The speed control module is under the battery mount, but I can't find the connector anywhere in front of that.

Chrysler Mechanic: John, triple chrysler master tech replied 8 years ago
There is two big connector under the battery tray you are checking the gray one.

Take it apart to check for corrision.

The other two thing you can check is disconnect the knock sensor next to the oil filter and see if the gauges start working.

Here a picture of the sensor.

graphic
The last thing i want you to check will need a volt/ohm meter to test pins 3,11 for 2.5 volts with the key on.

graphic
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

John,

Sorry for the delay, I had an appointment, that just ended. Anyway, I checked the connectors and there is no corrosion. My van has a v-6 and I can't find the knock sensor, of course I also wasn't able to lift the van to get under it so was only felling my way past the oil filter and dipstick, but after those is either a motor mount, the starter or both. With a V-6, I can't see anything from the top. I do have a volt/ohm meter, but where is the connector located in the picture you furnished?

Chrysler Mechanic: John, triple chrysler master tech replied 8 years ago
graphic
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

John,

I know the date link connector is under the dash on all late model vehicles, but it isn't on this one. the only thing under the dash is the fuse box, unless it's hidden under the lower dash panel which I've never seen before.

Chrysler Mechanic: John, triple chrysler master tech replied 8 years ago

It should be there if this is a 96 and you are in the USA.

 

Try cycling the key ON OFF ON OFF ON WITH IN 5 SECONDS AND SEE IF THE CHECK ENGINE LIGHT WILL FLASH A CODE IN LONG AND SHORT FLASHES.

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Customer reply replied 8 years ago
Relist: I still need help.
Customer reply replied 8 years ago
My apologies for the delay. I work 12 hours a day and when I'm not working, I'm caring for my disabled wife. It's her handicap van with the gage problem. Anyway, I am familiar with what a data port looks like. There is none on this van, or at least not where it's expected to be. I have looked everywhere under the dash even though it should readily accessible in a conspicuous place. It's not there. I tried the on, off 3 times suggestion and neither the check engine light or check gages would flash. The check gages just stays on the check engine light just goes off.
Chrysler Mechanic: John, triple chrysler master tech replied 8 years ago
I will reopen the question for you.
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Chrysler Mechanic: John, triple chrysler master tech replied 8 years ago
Have you taken the cluster out and cleaned the connector where it plug into the cluster with electrical contact cleaner?
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago
No I haven't removed th cluster, primarily because I haven't a clue as to where to begin to take it apart.
Chrysler Mechanic: John, triple chrysler master tech replied 8 years ago
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The two other thing that will cause this either the connector need cleaning or the circuit board is crack.

Let me know what else you need
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

John,

My sincerest apologies for leading you astray. This is a 1994 van conversion that was first sold in 1996. That explains the no data connector and why your drawings were slightly off. I did remove the dash and cluster, cleaned the contacts, re- assembled everything and still no gages. I didn't disassemble the cluster so I have no idea if the circuit board was cracked, but with no impact and this happening suddenly I doubt if that's the case, although I also realize that in this world anything can happen. If you want to close this request so you can get paid, I more than understand. If you want to continue, I would be grateful, but due to care giving duties, I won't be back on for about 4 hours. Thanks again for getting me this far.

Chrysler Mechanic: John, triple chrysler master tech replied 8 years ago
One thing to note is that the gauges are all CCD bussed messages, however unlike many of the newer cars, the AS minivan receives the bus messages to the cluster from two different origin points. The OIL, TEMPERATURE, FUEL, and CHARGING gauges are all bussed message solely from the BCM. These circuits are hardwired to the BCM. In contrast, the tachometer and speedometer are bussed messages from the PCM. So it is possible if the CCD bus wires were pushed out or cut from the PCM you will get a situation where ONLY the tachometer and speedometer will not operate. If the ccd wires were shorted or if you had a total bus failure (loss of bcm), then ALL THE GAUGES would become inoperative and would yield many CCD bus codes and/or NO RESPONSE messages.

If the car is not equipped with a tachometer, ONLY the speedometer will be inoperative. Most people assume the MIC, gauge(s), or BCM is at fault due this unique failure mode. When using the drb3 you should notice if the 'PCM IS INACTIVE' on the bus (goto bcm-system tests-pcm monitor). If the problem is intermittent then you may not see the error nor a code in the bcm. Use the manual to trace the ccd bus wiring connections and splices, for testing purposes you can jumper the ccd bus wires from the PCM back to the data link connector (valid ccd communication point), this will bypass any questionable connection points. 1991 was the first year the AS vans incorporated the gauges being bus dependant

can you have the codes read in the BCM at a repair shop or dealership?

It would be easier for you to test for the problem.

The data link connector is under the hood for the pcm.

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graphic
Pins 3,4 should have 2.5 volts+-.3.

If I have help you,please push the accept button when were done.

Let me know what else you need by coming back to this question.

Thank you for choosing just answer.
John
John, triple chrysler master tech
Category: Chrysler
Satisfied Customers: 2,251
Experience: 43 years,triple chrys ,ase master tech,l1,t2 b5 a1-a8 Hev spec.
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago
I checked the data link connector and between pins 3&4 I am getting somehwere around 2-3 volts. My voltmeter is 0-150 so accuracy isn't 100%, but it appears that the voltage accross the pins with the iginition on is correct. This van does have a tachometer and none of the gages read out anything.
Chrysler Mechanic: John, triple chrysler master tech replied 8 years ago
That good ,that mean the buss line is up.

I want you to test the power and grounds at the cluster connector.

graphic
graphic
Pin 11 is 12 volts with the key on.
Pin 14,7 should read .5 ohm or less resistance.
Pin 9,10 should read 2.5 volts.
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago
I didn't know I was going to get to dismantle the dash again? With the key on: Pin 11 is 12 volts and pins 9 and 10 are both 2.5. The resistance between 14 and 7 is so small I can't read it, meaning there is connectivity, just next to no resistance. By the way, this may mean nothing since there is usually factory wiring not used on several vehicles for various reasons, but I have a blue receptacle hanging down with 6 pins and I can't see or feel where it ever plugged into anything, but it was by the fuse panel. The receptacle is about 7/8 X 1-1/8 rectangular.
Chrysler Mechanic: John, triple chrysler master tech replied 8 years ago
I say you need a circuit board,because everything else tested good.
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

John,

I am assuming you mean the circuit board in the cluster? With this being a 94, is that even going to be available? Since I've made it this far, I would assume I can change the board, but is there any other possibilities that my local dealer could check better than me since he has all the testing equipment or is this pretty much the only answer after the readings I've given you? Electronic components do fail, but isn't it kind of odd a circuit board made it 15 years and just failed suddenly? And I am in no way questioning your diagnostics since you are the one with the expereince. I'm just trying to rule out any errors on my part since I've already reasembled the dash. And why would I do that? I have to keep this in running order since it is my wife's only transportation to and from doctors, with or without gages. Thanks again for all your time and efforts and putting up with me after my initially giving you the wrong year.

Chrysler Mechanic: John, triple chrysler master tech replied 8 years ago
They go out all the time,you could have them check if you want to,but if you did the tests I send you I would think that the only thing left is the circuit board.

You could have them check for codes in the BCM,cluster and PCM to see what they come up with.

The circuit board you just remove the bulbs counterclockwise and than unscrew it.

Let me know what else you like to know.
John
John, triple chrysler master tech
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