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My front turn signal light sockets are shorted. The power…

Customer Question
My front turn signal...

My front turn signal light sockets are shorted. The power terminal is grounded somewhere

Mechanic's Assistant: Have you checked the fuse?

Yes

Mechanic's Assistant: What is the model/year of your Chevy?

2001 Silverado 2500HD

Mechanic's Assistant: Are you fixing your Silverado yourself? What have you tried so far?

Everything. I've narrowed down the problem to the turn signal sockets grounded out somewhere

Submitted: 26 days ago.Category: Chevy
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3/27/2018
Chevy Mechanic: Mechanic01, ASE Certified Technician replied 26 days ago
Mechanic01
Mechanic01, ASE Certified Technician
Category: Chevy
Satisfied Customers: 2,451
Experience: Owner at Baltic investments
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Hello my name is ***** ***** welcome to just answers! I will be assisting you with all of your vehicle questions today. Please be aware I do not know your skill level or abilities so I will be asking a lot of questions and in a lot of cases we will respond to each other quite a lot before we find a solution. As far as phone calls are concerned you will receive a system automated call request, that is not me, and they do cost more money, I prefer text but in some cases a phone call is required. If I don’t answer right away or quickly in conversation I am helping another customer or have stepped out for a moment and will respond as soon as I can. Also I am not paid hourly by just answers, I am only paid when you rate me, so if you could please respect my time and knowledge by rating me when we are finished that would be wonderful. If you could please indicate your level of experience and what you are looking to get out of your session today. Ok lets get started! Have you tried using a circuit tracer ?

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Customer reply replied 26 days ago
Thank you. I have used a multimeter and found that there is a continuous circuit on both of my front two turn signal socket power terminals and ground terminal. I am assuming the power is grounded somewhere. The weird thing is that the rear two turn signals work fine.
Chevy Mechanic: Mechanic01, ASE Certified Technician replied 26 days ago

ok let me get you the diagram and that will allow you to trace it

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Customer reply replied 26 days ago
Great, I look forward to it.
Chevy Mechanic: Mechanic01, ASE Certified Technician replied 26 days ago

https://www.dropbox.com/s/d8m7a00t65gjh52/mon6.docx?dl=0

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Chevy Mechanic: Mechanic01, ASE Certified Technician replied 26 days ago

have you tried a circuit tracer yet?

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Customer reply replied 26 days ago
That's a complicated diagram. No, unfortunately, I don't own a circuit tracer but I've used my multimeter all over the place and both front turn signals ground out. I'm guessing it's some point where those two connect but not the rear two
Chevy Mechanic: Mechanic01, ASE Certified Technician replied 26 days ago

are you saying both front turn sockets are shorted?

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Customer reply replied 26 days ago
correct. Both front turn sockets as well as both of the two little tiny bulbs on the far corner of the fender (maybe running lights) are shorted. But the park light portion of the turn signal sockets work fine. On those turn signal sockets, the one bulb has the two functions and the one filament stays lit for a running light while the other flasher filament won't flash at all. On the interior panel, I get an indication like the bulbs simply burned out and both panel indicator signals flash faster than normal along with the rear two turn signals flashing faster than normal.
Chevy Mechanic: Mechanic01, ASE Certified Technician replied 26 days ago

if you see in the diagram where it meets up to the junction block in the underhood location I would unplug that and all the effected bulbs in that circuit, should just be the 4 and try testing again, you should get ohms to ground on the black wire and everything else should be ok, that will allow you to find it easier

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Customer reply replied 26 days ago
I'll try that, thanks. Would you happen to know where the junction box is on this model?
Chevy Mechanic: Mechanic01, ASE Certified Technician replied 26 days ago

thats your fuse panel, left side of engine bay by battery

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Customer reply replied 26 days ago
when I unplug those four turn and lights under the hood fuse box, the short is no longer present. The black wire does ground correctly as you mentioned. But looking at your diagram, I can't see where only the front lights make contact with each other but the rear ones don't. Can you see where that is?
Chevy Mechanic: Mechanic01, ASE Certified Technician replied 26 days ago

that makes me think you have a inssue in the junction block itself, which is pretty common in these trucks,

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Customer reply replied 26 days ago
Ah. What kind of issue? Should I disassemble the junction box?
Chevy Mechanic: Mechanic01, ASE Certified Technician replied 26 days ago

maybe a bus bar problem, but everything goes to that box and then goes to front and back, so yes try to take apart box to look for burnt or bad connections

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Chevy Mechanic: Mechanic01, ASE Certified Technician replied 26 days ago

I would also check signals out with it unplugged to see if your getting voltage signal out, and you dont have any leds installed do you?

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Customer reply replied 26 days ago
Check signal voltage at the fuse connections? And no, I don't have leds installed, but strangely enough, I tried to replace a burned signal bulb with an led and that's when both front signals stopped working and shorted. What could that mean?
Chevy Mechanic: Mechanic01, ASE Certified Technician replied 26 days ago

that means it was in backwards and shorted something out somewhere, pay close attention to the connector terminals at the junction box could be a small but significant burn to cause your issue, im headed to bed, whatever you find just post it ill see it in the morning and we can continue, no worries on time this question lasts as as long as we need to get the situation fixed and could last over a number of days, it doesn’t cost any extra per question or time limit, just the one fee and thats it.

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Customer reply replied 24 days ago
I tried to take apart the fuse box and look for burnt and bad connections, and I didn't know it but there are tons of tiny copper wires making connections all over the place inside the fuse box, and I destroyed those trying to open the box. Once I opened it up, I found no problems, burnt connections, etc. at all inside. So, now I'll have to buy another one to even run the truck.
But I kept testing for the grounded wire and now I've learned that these wires are grounded somewhere in between the connection into the fuse box and the connection into the steering wheel harness. The only place that shares the left and right front signals on your diagram is the "(Left side of dash) Body Junction Box." Which is this junction box exactly? And do you have any other ideas to try?
Chevy Mechanic: Peter Bagley, Auto Service Technician replied 24 days ago
Peter Bagley
Peter Bagley, Auto Service Technician
Category: Chevy
Satisfied Customers: 1,163
Experience: master tech
Verified

Hello new tech here , still need help?

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Customer reply replied 24 days ago
Hello. yes, I definitely still need help.
Chevy Mechanic: Peter Bagley, Auto Service Technician replied 24 days ago

Ok can I start at the beginning? does it blow any fuses?

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Chevy Mechanic: Peter Bagley, Auto Service Technician replied 24 days ago

If they are not blowing fuses then it is not a short. when you look into the sockets , how many contacts are in there? are there the same number of contacts in the sockets as there is on the bulbs? Also are the bulbs clear or amber?

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Customer reply replied 24 days ago
Sure. No fuses blown. I'm having the front two turn signals not working. When I checked voltage with signal on, I didn't get any voltage. I then checked and found that the hot terminals on the turn signals are grounded out on both sets of front turn signals and front running lights/marker lamps. Based on the last mechanic's suggestion here, I took apart the fuse box under the hood by the battery and looked for burn marks. I didn't find any, but also did figure out that if you take apart a fuse box, you destroy it, because there are tons of tiny copper wires pressed to the terminals inside. So I have to buy a new fuse box.
I continued to check for issues and found that the grounded wires occur between the entering fuse box harness and the steering wheel connector harness. Looking at the wiring diagram, there appears to be a place where these wires connect called the "Body junction block (on the left side of dash)". I'm trying to figure out what and where that is at this point. Any ideas?
Customer reply replied 24 days ago
Or if not a short with a blown fuse, is there some relay that could ground the hot wires instead of sending them power?
Chevy Mechanic: Peter Bagley, Auto Service Technician replied 24 days ago

so are you saying you have no power to any of those sockets when the rears are working?

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Customer reply replied 24 days ago
Well the turn signal bulbs have two filaments and the running light on these bulbs still has power, but yes, the turn signaling contacts do not have power.
Customer reply replied 24 days ago
the rears both work and blink fast, as if there was a bad bulb
Chevy Mechanic: Peter Bagley, Auto Service Technician replied 24 days ago

a short is an unintentional ground which causes blown fuses or melted wires. if you have no power that is usually an open circuit or incomplete circuit which we can trace.

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Customer reply replied 24 days ago
I understand. When I set my multimeter to check continuity, I get a continuous circuit on both the ground and hot contacts in the two front turn signal sockets with one probe touching the terminal and one touching the alternator. This is tested with the power and turn signals on and off with the same results.
Chevy Mechanic: Peter Bagley, Auto Service Technician replied 24 days ago

Ok if that is the case then we have an open circuit for the front signals, now I can proceed to look for this will be. Can you give me till tomorrow so I can check some diagrams for a starting point?

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Customer reply replied 24 days ago
Sure, that's fine. The mechanic who tried to help before sent me a diagram that might help you. It's very basic though. https://www.dropbox.com/s/d8m7a00t65gjh52/mon6.docx?dl=0
Customer reply replied 24 days ago
like I said, the hot turn signal wires do not show continuity with ground from the point of the fuse junction block to the socket. But they do show continuity with ground from the fuse junction block harness under the hood to the steering wheel wire harness under the dash, which I have disassembled trying to trace this wire. Thank you
Chevy Mechanic: Peter Bagley, Auto Service Technician replied 23 days ago

I don't understand what you mean hot wires don't have continuity to ground? this needs hands on in my opinion unless another has ideas so I will pass this on and wish you good luck

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Chevy Mechanic: Jerry Newton, Chevy Technician replied 23 days ago
Jerry Newton
Jerry Newton, Chevy Technician
Category: Chevy
Satisfied Customers: 5,628
Experience: ASE Master Technician, L1, Master GM Technician. Over 20 years of bumper to bumper GM experience.
Verified

Let me see if I can help here.

With everything assembled, the light blue and dark blue wires at each front turn signal do not have power, but those circuits are grounded. Yes?

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Customer reply replied 23 days ago
Hi Jerry,
Yes, that is exactly correct on the light blue and dark blue. Also the front two corner running(?) lights share those light blue and dark blue wires and are also grounded with no voltage.
Chevy Mechanic: Jerry Newton, Chevy Technician replied 23 days ago

OK, and if you unplug the circuit at the fuse block, you find that it's grounded on the side leading into the vehicle, and not grounded on the side leading out to the lamps. Still correct?

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Customer reply replied 23 days ago
exactly correct. Then I unplugged the harness to the steering wheel and found the wires to the steering wheel are not grounded so its somewhere between that area where both lt blue and dk blue possibly contact each other
Chevy Mechanic: Jerry Newton, Chevy Technician replied 23 days ago

That is interesting. I was going to say that the fact that it's grounded doesn't bother me, because the turn signal switch may actually do that by design when the circuit is off, and if the switch is malfunctioning (not energizing the front lamps), it would make sense that the switch is no good.

But you're sure that it's grounded somewhere between the switch and the fuse block. Do you have open LT TURN and RT TURN fuses? Because if the circuits are grounded, those fuses should open when you hit the switch.

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Customer reply replied 23 days ago
Yeah, it is weird. But I completely removed the steering wheel harness and checked the corresponding contacts for those blue wires and removed the fuse block harness and they were both still showing grounded, even with no fuses from the fuse block. And it is strange that it didn't blow the fuse, but it's also showing no voltage. This is why I was wondering if there was some other relay that would ground these or something
Chevy Mechanic: Jerry Newton, Chevy Technician replied 23 days ago

No power to the LT TURN and RT TURN fuses when the signals are applied with key on, either?

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Customer reply replied 23 days ago
Correct, no power with truck running, turn signals switched on and even with hazards on. They're still grounded when on too
Chevy Mechanic: Jerry Newton, Chevy Technician replied 23 days ago

I just can't get hung up on this ground issue. If it was truly grounded, the fuse would open. There is no relay in this circuit or anything like that.

So let's bypass that, and get back to why there's no power there in the first place. If you take a fused jumper wire to B+ and touch it to the LT TURN fuse, does the left side lamp light up?

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Customer reply replied 23 days ago
Well the first mechanic I talked to on here suggested I take apart the fuse box and when I tried, it destroyed all of the copper connectors inside so I've ordered another one yesterday and waiting on it to arrive. So right now, I probably can't test power to anything unless you think it'll work without the ignition fuses and stuff
Chevy Mechanic: Jerry Newton, Chevy Technician replied 23 days ago

No, we shouldn't do anything until you get a new fuse box, I didn't realize that.

But we can continue this tomorrow when you're ready to go.

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Customer reply replied 23 days ago
Ok, in the meantime, can you see on your diagrams, is there anywhere in between the fuse block and the steering wheel that these wires come together or use any other harnesses?
Chevy Mechanic: Jerry Newton, Chevy Technician replied 23 days ago

No, there isn't anything. These circuits are inputs to the BCM, so you may be reading this ground through the BCM on your multimeter. That's the problem with multimeters, I like test lights for this sort of thing because it puts a load on the circuit, where a multimeter does not. You may find that the ground is so weak that it wouldn't light up a test light anyway, so it's not worth investigating.

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Customer reply replied 23 days ago
Ah ok, maybe I'll invest in a test light then
Chevy Mechanic: Jerry Newton, Chevy Technician replied 23 days ago

Touch base with me tomorrow when you have your parts installed, and we'll carry on with this.

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Customer reply replied 21 days ago
Hi Jerry,
I got my replacement fuse box and got a light circuit tester. and tried what you suggested with the fused wire from B+ to the fuse in the box and I did successfully blink! Also with the light tester, with the tester connected directly onto the alternator, and probing touching the B+ with blinker on, the tester light flashes with the fast blinking of the blinker. So it’s almost as if it’s alternating between grounded and not grounded. What do you think?
Customer reply replied 19 days ago
Are you still helping me out?
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