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2005 cobalt 2.2l, the starter has been replaced twice. The…

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2005 cobalt 2.2l, the starter...
2005 cobalt 2.2l, the starter has been replaced twice. The alternator is bad, the battery is good, tests fine and holds charge. The issue, I have no power to the purple wire at the starter in the start/crank position. The car will start and run for about 30 seconds if the starter is jumped from the positive to the purple wire location, however the starter stays running, not engaged, just running. Background... The starter was replaced a month ago, car would start and run fine. Drove to work, on way home, all lights and everything went dead. Wife came and jumped the car, charged the battery for 15 minutes, headed for home, got 6 miles and lost lights again. Pulled over, attempted to charged battery and start, car would not start or crank. Battery was taking charge, but car would not turn over. Was jumping/charging battery at the battery, not at the posts under the hood. Towed car home, pulled crank Relay, attempted the jumper, sending direct power to the starter at the crank Relay, and nothing. Replaced starter yesterday and determined I have no power at the purple wire when in the start crank ignition position. All fuses were tested with an ohm meter, relays were switched out to ensure everything is good. I am able to read minor information with a scan tool, my scan tool is a generic one, not a high end tech 2. It will not program or do any of what the high end models will do. What am I missing or need to check.
Submitted: 9 months ago.Category: Chevy
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Answered in 7 minutes by:
9/19/2017
Chevy Mechanic: david craig, Auto Mechanic replied 9 months ago
david craig
david craig, Auto Mechanic
Category: Chevy
Satisfied Customers: 5,584
Experience: owner/mechanic at 3D Automotive
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Hi Im David, thanks for visiting the site. check for power at the crank(not run/crank) relay plug in position 30. pull the relay and the holes should be numbered 30,97,86,85.

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Customer reply replied 9 months ago
The holes are not numbered. However, the pins are numbered on the Relay itself. Pin 30 is constant power, has power in the ignition off position and ignition on. Pin 86 only has power in the ignition on position. Running a jumper from 30 to 87 should send direct power to the starter and make it crank, but it does not crank.
Chevy Mechanic: david craig, Auto Mechanic replied 9 months ago

ok then you have an open wire from the relay to the starter

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Customer reply replied 9 months ago
I don't know what you mean by that.
Chevy Mechanic: david craig, Auto Mechanic replied 9 months ago

the purple wire is broken/damaged between 87 of the relay plug and the starter solenoid

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Chevy Mechanic: david craig, Auto Mechanic replied 9 months ago

you are sending 12vdc directly to the solenoid by jumping 30 to 87. the ONLY way the starter doesnt engage is 1. a bad starter. 2. an open wire.

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Chevy Mechanic: david craig, Auto Mechanic replied 9 months ago

do a continuity test between 87 in the relay plug and the purple wire on the starter

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Customer reply replied 9 months ago
Is it possible that wire got damaged when I was attempting to jump it? Also, I jumped the starter from the positive to the purple wire location which caused the car to start and run. It ran for a few minutes until I smelled and saw smoke coming from the starter. Shut the car off, removed the purple wire, jumped it again and it started and ran for about 30 second ds and shut off, all the while it was running, the starter was running but not engaged. So, I jumped it again, put a test light on the purple wire location and it lit up until the car died, and the starter was running the entire time until the car quit again.
Chevy Mechanic: david craig, Auto Mechanic replied 9 months ago

ok, its possible. but a continuity test of the purple wire will tell us if it is indeed damaged.

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Customer reply replied 9 months ago
Ok, you're probably gonna laugh, but how do I do a Continuity test on that?
Chevy Mechanic: david craig, Auto Mechanic replied 9 months ago

im not laughing, dont worry, I dont expect everyone to know electrical. its ok

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Chevy Mechanic: david craig, Auto Mechanic replied 9 months ago

put one meter lead into position 87. put the other lead on the purple wire(disconnect it from the starter). select ohms on the meter. tell me what its reading.

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Customer reply replied 9 months ago
I have meters and test lights, but I have no idea how to run the meters. My dad came down yesterday and he ran the meter while we went through all the fuses.
Chevy Mechanic: david craig, Auto Mechanic replied 9 months ago

on a digital volt meter, select ohms. make sure the leads are plugged into the appropriate holes on the meter. common and ohms. select ohms 200 scale. put the leads where I told you. tell me what it reads

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Customer reply replied 9 months ago
It is reading 0.00
Customer reply replied 9 months ago
Took me a few, I had to track the car up as I took it off the jacks last night, didn't want to leave it like that all night.
Customer reply replied 9 months ago
Jack it up. Damn fat fingers
Chevy Mechanic: david craig, Auto Mechanic replied 9 months ago

ok, if its reading 0.00 then the wire is good. the starter is not

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Customer reply replied 9 months ago
This is the 2nd starter. You're telling me, both of these starters are bad? The first starter started the car fine, for 6-8 times then I thought it went bad, so I ordered a replacement. I tested the first starter yesterday, it engaged when we hooked the jump starter up to it. Which was after I installed the 2nd starter. The 2nd starter will start the car if the purple wire is jumped. I am not getting power to the purple wire when I attempt to start it with the key. We know the purple wire is good, now, thank you for that. But why am I not getting power to that wire when I turn the key to crank?
Customer reply replied 9 months ago
I was thinking the ecm, bcm, or ignition was fried when I attempted to jump it the 2nd time it quit and my wife had to come get me.
Customer reply replied 9 months ago
But I was told if my scanner will read the vin and temp, the ecm was good, and by jumping the Relay at slots 30+87 that bypasses the bcm and ignition. But when I jump that Relay, it doesn't do anything.
Chevy Mechanic: david craig, Auto Mechanic replied 9 months ago

ok man, let me decipher this

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Customer reply replied 9 months ago
in theory, if I install the jumper wire at slots 30+87, with the purple wire disconnected, I should have 12 volts coming to that purple wire. Correct?
Chevy Mechanic: david craig, Auto Mechanic replied 9 months ago

make sure you still have 12 volts at the red wire to the starter also

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Customer reply replied 9 months ago
Ok. Now, I have no idea what to set my meter at. I am guessing dc 20
Chevy Mechanic: david craig, Auto Mechanic replied 9 months ago

dc 20 yes and the meter is set up right

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Customer reply replied 9 months ago
Ok, give me a few to get back under it and test it
Chevy Mechanic: david craig, Auto Mechanic replied 9 months ago

ok

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Customer reply replied 9 months ago
12.62 at the starter positive cable connection. 12.46 at slot 30. The jumper installed at 30+87, the reading I get at the purple wire starter connection point is 0.17. Purple wire is disconnected.
Chevy Mechanic: david craig, Auto Mechanic replied 9 months ago

the purple wire is damaged/melted, broken. period.

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Customer reply replied 9 months ago
Which means it's either the fuse Relay box or the ecm. Correct? Since the is continuity at the purple wire, 12 volts at the Starter, and slot 30 but not at the purple wire when jumped from 30+87. Because that power has to run through the box, I to the ecm and then to the starter. Unless I am confused. If the purple wire was damaged, how would I have Continuity?
Customer reply replied 9 months ago
Is there a way to test the the fuse/relay and the ecm to eliminate those? And where do I begin with the purple wire? If I connect the jumper, remove the ecm connections, and start testing the pins, that would either eliminate the purple wire or Confirm it. Correct?
Customer reply replied 9 months ago
I just double checked the tests again. Apparently the jumper was not making good contact. Now I am getting 12.70 at the purple wire starter connection point
Customer reply replied 9 months ago
which eliminated the purple wire, ecm and fuse/relay box. Correct? So, if I reconnect the purple wire, the car should start. Correct?
Customer reply replied 9 months ago
It should start by jumping slots 30+87. But when I turn the key to crank, it's not feeding power to the purple wire.
Chevy Mechanic: david craig, Auto Mechanic replied 9 months ago

i gotta run out to the dentist. ill be back in a few

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Customer reply replied 9 months ago
Ok
Chevy Mechanic: david craig, Auto Mechanic replied 9 months ago

ok then the starter needs replaced. bot***** *****ne

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Chevy Mechanic: david craig, Auto Mechanic replied 9 months ago

you ARE feeding 12vdc to the purple wire. the starter is not working

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Customer reply replied 9 months ago
I am not an expert, but I disagree. I touched the purple wire to the starter, and it began to crank, when I had the jumper in slots 30+87. The key was in the off position.
Chevy Mechanic: david craig, Auto Mechanic replied 9 months ago

do you have 12vdc in position 30?

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Customer reply replied 9 months ago
The purple wire is not getting power when I turn the key to the start crank position. Yes. I have 12 volts in 30. When I jump 30 to 87, I have 12 volts at the purple wire that connects to the starter.
Chevy Mechanic: david craig, Auto Mechanic replied 9 months ago

ok, then the starter is bad, what is it that you cant understand?? you're putting 12vdc directly to thee starter by doing that!

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Customer reply replied 9 months ago
Correct. And the starter cranks.
Chevy Mechanic: david craig, Auto Mechanic replied 9 months ago

you said it wasnt starting

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Chevy Mechanic: david craig, Auto Mechanic replied 9 months ago

ok man you are confusing this whole situation. Im going to opt out and let someone else help. good luck

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Chevy Mechanic: david craig, Auto Mechanic replied 9 months ago

cranking*

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Chevy Mechanic: Jerry Newton, Chevy Technician replied 9 months ago
Jerry Newton
Jerry Newton, Chevy Technician
Category: Chevy
Satisfied Customers: 5,638
Experience: ASE Master Technician, L1, Master GM Technician. Over 20 years of bumper to bumper GM experience.
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Let's start over.

You don't have power on the purple wire to the starter, but if you jumper it to the battery cable on the starter, it cranks, starts, and runs, yes?

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Customer reply replied 9 months ago
I do not have power going to the purple wire when the ignition is turned to the crank/start position. I have checked the continuity of the purple wire, it's good. I placed a jumper in the crank Relay, to run direct power to the purple wire, I have 12 volts at the point where the purple wire connects to the starter. If I touch the purple wire to the starter, it cranks. So all that is intact and good. The starter is new. For some reason, when I turn the key to start it, I do not have power to the purple wire.
Customer reply replied 9 months ago
I have no clue how to rule out the ignition, how to rule out the bcm, or how to rule out the ecm or Tcm
Chevy Mechanic: Jerry Newton, Chevy Technician replied 9 months ago

When you jumper the crank relay, and you have 12 volts at the starter purple wire, is the starter engaging?

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Customer reply replied 9 months ago
the starter engages and turns the motor over.
Chevy Mechanic: Jerry Newton, Chevy Technician replied 9 months ago

OK. So, all of the purple wire circuit works as it should, from relay to starter. What we don't know is why the relay is not being energized, is that where we are now?

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Customer reply replied 9 months ago
Would it be easier for you to talk on the phone, maybe cover more ground faster and I can also give you background as to how I got to this point. I have wasted 6 hours on the previous guy, I do not want to waste 6 more. If you can understand that.
Chevy Mechanic: Jerry Newton, Chevy Technician replied 9 months ago

OK, engine computer controls starting on this car. The engine computer has to be satisfied of several things before it will close that relay. Security system, park/neutral, engine is not already running would be a few of them. You'll need a scan tool that can read data to determine why the ECM is not engaging the starter. I would look at theft deterrent data, and I would look at park/neutral position data. Do you have access to a scan tool that will do this?

By any chance, is there a red padlock looking light illuminated on the cluster when the key is on?

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Customer reply replied 9 months ago
I have a scan tool, but not a high end one like tech 2, mine is a generic one that does the basic things. I do not have access to another scan tool.
Chevy Mechanic: Jerry Newton, Chevy Technician replied 9 months ago

You'll need one to diagnose this problem. You can't figure out why the computer isn't doing what it's supposed to do, if you can't access the computer and read the data.

You also didn't answer about the theft deterrent light on the dash, does it light up when you turn the key on, and does it stay on or does it go out after a few seconds?

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Customer reply replied 9 months ago
I am sorry. The passlock light goes out.
Customer reply replied 9 months ago
I can access and read some data, vin, temp, things of that nature.
Chevy Mechanic: Jerry Newton, Chevy Technician replied 9 months ago

OK, I understand. Can you see park/neutral data?

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Customer reply replied 9 months ago
No I cannot read that.
Chevy Mechanic: Jerry Newton, Chevy Technician replied 9 months ago

You'll simply have to either get a capable scan tool, or have this towed to a mechanic that can do this. The ECM is what controls starting, and you've eliminated all of the things downstream from the ECM. I wouldn't attempt a repair on this without knowing why the ECM is disabling the starter.

Please take a moment to rate my answers, that's how I get compensated. If you have further questions, I am happy to follow up.

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Customer reply replied 9 months ago
Is there a way to eliminate other components, such as the ignition, the bcm, ecm, or tcm, crank position sensor, IDK what all it could be. I realize taking it to a mechanic is the easiest, and the most expensive. I do not have the funds to pay for towing and diagnostic labor all g with repair costs. I can do the repairs myself if I can determine what needs repaired.
Chevy Mechanic: Jerry Newton, Chevy Technician replied 9 months ago

It's not crank sensor. And apparently, it's not a theft deterrent issue, because you don't have theft deterrent light on, no trouble codes pointing to that, etc.

The PRK/NEUT fuse is good, and has power on it in the RUN and CRANK positions?

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Chevy Mechanic: Jerry Newton, Chevy Technician replied 9 months ago

I am getting ready to leave my desk for the day, but I will check in later tonight and follow up with you, and I'll definitely be back here tomorrow for you, so don't despair if you don't hear back from me right away.

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Customer reply replied 9 months ago
Uggg, not what I wanted to read. I am so frustrated with this.
Chevy Mechanic: Jerry Newton, Chevy Technician replied 9 months ago

I am sure it's not what you wanted to read, but I am just giving you the facts. Spending $90 on a diagnosis would have saved you a starter and countless hours of dinking around with it. 90 bucks of diagnosis with a scan tool would have been the best money to spend on this in the first place.

Check that fuse, though, if that fuse is open, the ECM won't see the park/neutral input, so that's something you can easily check.

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Chevy Mechanic: Jerry Newton, Chevy Technician replied 8 months ago

Did you get to the bottom of this?

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