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2005 duramax 3500, won't start without pumping primer

Customer Question
one time while cranking. Truck...
2005 duramax 3500, won't start without pumping primer one time while cranking. Truck has a lift pump, supposedly new high psi pump and injectors. It's not sucking air have clear lines before and after filter housing.
Submitted: 1 year ago.Category: Chevy
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Answered in 1 hour by:
5/23/2016
Chevy Mechanic: Daniel Wilson,
 replied 1 year ago
Daniel Wilson
Category: Chevy
Satisfied Customers: 5,730
Experience: Owner at DJ Wilson
Verified

Hi my name is***** will be glad to help. Check the filter housing and bottom sensor for leaks and the lines as well for any leaks in the system. these are known for leaks at the filter housing and is likely why your pressure is bleeding off. Let me know

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
Filter housing is new. As well I bypassed the filter housing with inline filter and still would not start. It's confusing as I have installed aftermarket lift pump on frame so it has positive pressure supply to pump without having to pump primer
Chevy Mechanic: Daniel Wilson,
 replied 1 year ago

Thanks for the update. Do you have any fault codes logged by chance? If fuel pressure is good and no leaks the problem is likely electrical.

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
Only code is low frp while cranking. Once started by pumping primer just once, you can command frp to 160mpa and it will Maintain. It just won't build fuel pressure while cranking without pressing the primer, the lift pump pressurize to 8lbs so I don't understand why pressing the primer makes a difference.
Customer reply replied 1 year ago
Any other advise ?
Chevy Mechanic: Gary, ASE Certified Technician replied 1 year ago
Gary
Gary, ASE Certified Technician
Category: Chevy
Satisfied Customers: 1,255
Experience: Senior Technician
Verified

Hi there,

Does your low pressure lift pump have an internal non-return valve?

If not I would add an inline non-return valve.

Gary

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
it's a non return pump, I even went as far as blocking the return to tank off to see if it will crank and run on its own, but it wouldn't. Still have to hit the primer just once while cranking and it will fire right up. I have pulled fprv out of pump and looks good and clean.
Customer reply replied 1 year ago
clear house before and after filter housing - no air
Chevy Mechanic: Gary, ASE Certified Technician replied 1 year ago

How about key on and off 5 times prior to starting?

5 seconds on 5 seconds off 5 times, like after changing a fuel filter.

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
It doesn't help any, it's just like the hpfp needs a small boost of fuel to start sucking it in to build the high pressure. I'm stumped.
Chevy Mechanic: Gary, ASE Certified Technician replied 1 year ago

I feel your pain.

You say it has a new high pressure pump?

New or original control valve?

Can you tee in a fuel pressure gauge near the filter the check the supply pressure?

Gary

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
Supposedly" it's new and so are the injectors. It looks like it has been changed, but just going off customer info. I have 8 lbs from the lift pump, it's a low pressure high volume. The fuel pressure regulator I assume came with the pump.
Customer reply replied 1 year ago
Any other help?
Chevy Mechanic: Gary, ASE Certified Technician replied 1 year ago

Hi again,

So somebody else has fitted a high pressure pump and injectors, has all the necessary programming been done?

Do you have a scan tool that can monitor rail pressure?

What happens to the fuel pressure gauge when you press the primer?

I don't think that 8 psi is enough.

Gary

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
I have snap on verus, I can do relearns, well they had 0psi from the factory so now it has 8 more,
So that should be a benefit and be as much psi and primer puts out.
Chevy Mechanic: Gary, ASE Certified Technician replied 1 year ago

It does sound baffling, the only thing I can now offer is a GM scan tool needs to be used, since possibly the learn functions aren't quite correct.

This is the original fault of no start unless the primer is operated?

Is the primer soft initially, and how much does it take to go hard?

And does it only take one pump on the primer, and the engine starts normally?

Gary

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
I have replaced many pumps and not had to use a scan tool for vehicle to operate. Just one pump and it starts. Primer is soft.
Chevy Mechanic: Gary, ASE Certified Technician replied 1 year ago

One more thing, perhaps the fuel tank is not venting well?

Can we take the tank cap off to see if that makes a difference?

Does it still have the intank pump?

Gary

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
I don't think you are familiar with the duramax trucks. They never had a low pressure fuel pump. And I ran a hose straight into a fuel can. I really would like to talk to a duramax tech I wonder if Maybe a common issue.
Chevy Mechanic: Gary, ASE Certified Technician replied 1 year ago

I'll admit that I'm not familiar with yours, but it does seem similar to some of ours.

I did think some ideas may help you.

I'm sorry I was not able to help you fix this, so I'll opt now, hopefully another tech with some specific experience will be along shortly.

No need to answer back as it will bounce the question back to me.

Hope you can fix this one.

Gary

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Chevy Mechanic: sprinkles08, ASE Certified Technician replied 1 year ago
sprinkles08
sprinkles08, ASE Certified Technician
Category: Chevy
Satisfied Customers: 23,265
Experience: ASE Master and Advanced level certified. Factory trained with 17 years dealership experience
Verified

Hello and welcome to JustAnswer!

Do you still need help?

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
Yea I do
Chevy Mechanic: sprinkles08, ASE Certified Technician replied 1 year ago

What is rail pressure while cranking when it won't start?

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
I don't remember exactly, I know it's very low, I'll have to put a few things back together on it I tore it down to pull out fprv to check for debris or rust and didn't find anything. I'll check it Tuesday when I get back to shop and let you know. I want to say less than 500psi until you bump the primer once and it starts right up. Just doesn't make sense being that it has a lift pump to create the pressure without need of primer.
Chevy Mechanic: sprinkles08, ASE Certified Technician replied 1 year ago

Let me know what you find and we'll go from there.

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Chevy Mechanic: Kevin Bourcier,
 replied 1 year ago
Kevin Bourcier
Category: Chevy
Satisfied Customers: 118
Experience: Owner/Technician at Max Air Mobile
Verified

hello can I assist you ?

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
I'm supposed to be getting back with frp while cranking, it will be a couple days before I can
Chevy Mechanic: Kevin Bourcier,
 replied 1 year ago

can I offer you a suggestion ? You say that the engine will always start after you pump the primer , correct ?

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
all it takes is one pump and it will fire right up, I have installed an aftermarket high volume low psi lift pump as well so there isn't a lack of fuel issue, I have replaced the fuel lines on engine with clear hoses and no air is present as well
Chevy Mechanic: Kevin Bourcier,
 replied 1 year ago

once it starts . it runs fine , no problems ? and will it continue to start on its own if you turn it off and attempt to start it again ?

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
I haven't had it go into limp mode under heavy load, and frp will match desired when commanded to the highest. BUT it won't start back after it has started if you wait longer than 30 seconds or so. Then you have either hit the primer and very quickly crank it or have someone in the truck crank it while you press primer.
Customer reply replied 1 year ago
Could bad suction valve in hpfp cause this and sill obtain max rail psi?
Chevy Mechanic: Kevin Bourcier,
 replied 1 year ago

okay so , humour me here if you can . Do you have access to compressed air ?

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
Yea
Chevy Mechanic: Kevin Bourcier,
 replied 1 year ago

do you have someone there to help you ? Take an air hose with a blower nozzle , using a rag wrapped around the blower to form a " gasket " if you will . Apply a small amount of air pressure to the fuel tank at the fuel filler . With the air pressure applied ( do not apply too much , don't blow up the tank , LOL ) with the tank pressurized try to start the engine . Does it start ?

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
I tried that before I did anything to it and it did not help
Chevy Mechanic: Kevin Bourcier,
 replied 1 year ago

okay . just checking . May I ask ? can you try it again please ?

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
Yea, but it will be next week before I can and I'll let you know. It shouldn't create much more pressure than the lift pump is sending to the hpfp.
Chevy Mechanic: Kevin Bourcier,
 replied 1 year ago

bear with me . when you have the chance , try it again . :-)

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Customer reply replied 1 year ago
Ok, thanks for the help, I'll update probably Tuesday after holiday when I get back to the truck.
Chevy Mechanic: Kevin Bourcier,
 replied 1 year ago

okay . I am happy to offer my thoughts and hope that I can help get you fixed up .

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Kevin Bourcier
Kevin Bourcier
Kevin Bourcier
Category: Chevy
Satisfied Customers: 118
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Experience: Owner/Technician at Max Air Mobile

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