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1988 chevy celebrity: The ignition key switch froze..pull..plug wires

Customer Question
The ignition key switch froze...
The ignition key switch froze on my 1988 chev celebrity while running had to pull the plug wires to shut it off. Replaced the switch, put in new plugs and wires. Now it turns over but will not start. none of the dash board warning lights come on. Its like the whole system is dead. One shop told me to replace the computer. I did that and its still the same. What do I need to do to get it to run?
Submitted: 8 years ago.Category: Chevy
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Answered in 8 minutes by:
9/18/2009
Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago
Mazda Ed
Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician
Category: Chevy
Satisfied Customers: 2,223
Experience: ASE Master Technician, Mazda Master Technician, GM and Ford factory trained. 15 years experience.
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HiCustomer

It sounds like the little actuator rod may have dropped out of place when you took the ignition switch out. It's also possible when you installed the cylinder it was not lined up properly. If you turn the key all the way to start does it spring back to the run position like it did before the key cylinder was replaced?
Mazda Ed
Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician
Category: Chevy
Satisfied Customers: 2,223
Experience: ASE Master Technician, Mazda Master Technician, GM and Ford factory trained. 15 years experience.
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago
yes the key still springs back as usual
Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago
Do you have a meter or test light?

Does any item on the car work that only has power when the ignition key is turned on ?
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago
yes, the lights, radio, turn signals, the fuel pump primes, its like theres no spark
Customer reply replied 8 years ago
yes i do have a lttle muti meter, not a test lite tho, if it will help i will get one
Customer reply replied 8 years ago

have i stumped you too?

nobody around here seems to have any idea

Customer reply replied 8 years ago
You havent sent me a list of dignostics to prform yet
Customer reply replied 8 years ago
When you send me the list of checks I will accept and include a bonus. No pay till you answer the question sorry.
Customer reply replied 8 years ago
Ok I'll accept, bonus to follow
Customer reply replied 8 years ago

I am still waiting for the info I paid for.

Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago
HiCustomer I'm very sorry I was away from the computer for a while. First lets start with a reading from the battery terminals so we can get a baseline.
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Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago
Also, measure the voltage on the 2 wire plug at the ignition coils. Make sure the key is turned on. Unplug the connector and put one lead on one wire in the connector and the other lead on the other wire.
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

Ok

The battery has 12 volt reading

There is no voltage on the numbber 2 wire at the coil

Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago
Is there voltage on either wire in the 2 wire connector?
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago
where is the second wire?
Customer reply replied 8 years ago
All I can see is the plug wire
Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago

Below is a picture of the ignition coils and the connectors. I need you to check the 2 wire plug for voltage. Put one lead of your meter on one wire and the other lead on the second wire.

graphic

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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

Ok found it

Thought you meant the # XXXXX plug wire at first

I have 12 volts at the 2 wire plug also

Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago

Ok, this might be silly... but lets recheck to make sure the spark plug wires are definitely in the right spots!

graphic

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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

done. All the plug wires are on correctly

Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago

Ok, at the ignition switch connector check the following wires with the test light:

1)Both RED wires - battery voltage at all times

2)Brown - Bat volt in ACCY AND RUN

3)Orange - Bat volt in RUN

4)Pink - Bat volt in Run AND Start

5)Yellow - Bat Volt in Start

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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

will bring home a test lite tomorrow evening

all i have now is a multi meter

will let you know what i find

this is the connector by the steering column inside the car right?

Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago
Yes, it is that connector... you can read the values with the meter too if you want.
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

Checked the wires, all are correct

Red hot all positions X2

Brown hot accy and run

orange hot run only

pink hot run and start

yellow hot in start only

all read 12 volts

Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago

Ok, with the key in run I want you to check the ECM FUSE (15amp) and GAGES FUSE(10amp) for power.

 

Also, just to make sure... NONE of the warning light come on in the dash?

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Customer reply replied 8 years ago
The oil lite, volt lite and seat belt lite all come on
Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago
Ok, check those fuses mentioned above.
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago
have checked all the fuses they are all good
Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago

Ok at the ECM are 2 orange wires that get their power from a fusible link that connects to the battery. They are on pins W10 and W15, check them for power.

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Customer reply replied 8 years ago
with the key on or off
Customer reply replied 8 years ago
the ecm is the computer box right
Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago
Yes it is. It shouldn't matter key on or off because they are a constant hot feed to the ECM
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago
Both have power
Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago

Ok, with the key on check W16 Pink/Black for power

Check the red wire at the fuel injector for power

Also check pins W12 and W13 Black/White wires for a good ground

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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

Ok

pink/black is hot with key on

ground is good at both black/white wires

red wire at injector is dead, no power

Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago
Ok, that red wire to the injector splices into the pink/black circuit so they should both have power. There is a splice S139 located behind the passenger side of the instrument panel. You should have 2 pink/black wires and a red wire all spliced together. First find and fix that splice to restore power to the red wire with the key in run.
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

cant find a splice like that, is it under the dashboard or the hood?

It has a carberator also not an injector so i think the engine has been swapped out

 

Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago
Up above you told me there was no power at the injector wire, but now you are saying it is a carb?? Are you sure it is not a throttle body with one injector? The splice is under the dash according to my info.
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

It Looks like a carb to me, Has the choke plate just like the stuff i grew up working on.

Didnt notice the other day in the dark outside, just found the red wire at the top and checked it for power, sorry.

Dark out here now again, will look more for that splice after work tomorrow.

Think I will have to start untaping the bundles to find it

Could only find one pink/ black wire today, the one at the ECM.

Will let you know what I find.

 

Customer reply replied 8 years ago
Hope the carb thing hasnt caused any problems
Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago
The red wire at the top... is there another wire next to it? A throttle body will still have a plate in it to regulate the airflow.
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

yes its blue

Guess its not a carbjust a tube with a flapper at the top sorry

Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago

Ok, good that is the throttle body. The red wire is power and should be powered with the key on. The Blue wire is ground and gets controlled by the computer. As a test, you can try splicing a fused wire from the battery + to the red wire and see if the car will start. Don't leave it like this... this is just to test.

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Customer reply replied 8 years ago
what size fuse should i use?
Customer reply replied 8 years ago
Do I just poke the jumper in with the red wire at the connector or do I have to cut it in to the red wire?
Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago
If you can see the pin with the connector connected then I would just poke it in there. This way you don't have to damage the red wire. A 15amp fuse should be just fine.
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

Ok will do it tomorrow

That splice under the dash is over towards the ECM end of the dash right?

Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago
Correct, it is on the passenger side.
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago
Ok thanks will do the jumper thing first and let you know if it works then start looking for the splice
Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago

Ok! Have a good night.

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Customer reply replied 8 years ago
Thanks you do the same
Customer reply replied 8 years ago

Ok Tried the jumper wire, it turned on, clicked when i hooked it up any ways,

Still wouldnt start.

Benn sitting for almost 2 months, dont suppose I should try priming with some gas maybe?

Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago

What turned on and what clicked?

 

Could you see fuel spray from the injector when you were cranking the engine?

 

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Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago

What turned on and what clicked?

 

Could you see fuel spray from the injector when you were cranking the engine?

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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

Couldn,t tell what clicked, sounded like it was right there by the injector.

There is no fuels spraying in the injector when i turn it over.

Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago

Have you looked for that splice yet?

With your jumper wire hooked up try putting your test light across the 2 wires at the injector and see if it will flash when you crank the engine.

Can you still hear the fuel pump run?

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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

Yes the fuel pump still runs.

Havent found the splice yet

Will try the test at the injector and look more for the splice tomorrow,

worked late and just got in the door tonight.

Will let you know what I come up with.

Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago
No problem, I just got home a little while ago myself!
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

Ok

Still cant find that splice, can you tell me where the wires come from so i can trace it down?

Will have to check with the test lite at the injector tomorrow after work the battery has gone dead so will have to charge it before i can check anything else.

Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago
Ok, somewhere behind the passenger side of the dash is a connector that has a pink/white wire coming from the fuse box changing to a pink/black wire. After this connector is the splice. The red wire goes to the fuel injector, the pink/black wire splits and goes to the ECM and the ignition module.
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

Ok

I think I can find it now, the splice

Will check it out and mail you back tomorrow after I check the power at the injector.

Customer reply replied 8 years ago

Ok

there is no splice I can find.

the pink and white goes from the fuse box to a connection block and comes out the oyther side pink and black

and goes to the computer.

The little red wire, same size as the one on the injector, plugs in right next to the pink black one from the computer. It runs into a bundle of small wires and goes up behind the AC ducting.

There are 8 or 9 wires that all plug into that connection box, they all change colors from one side to the other.

Hooked up the jumper wire to the injector again and it does not flash when I turn the engine over.

Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago
Ok, try disconnecting that connector where the wire changes from pink/white to pink/black. Check for power on the pink/white with it disconnected.
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago
with the key on or off?
Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago
Key in run
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

from a ground to the wire ?

or the wire to the plug?

Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago
From a good ground to the wire.
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

ok

will check it tomorrow,dark and raining out now

I'll let you know

Customer reply replied 8 years ago

Here goes

Checked the pink white wire for power

It has power when its connected, dead when unplugged.

Had to unplug the whole side of the connection block, couldnt unplug iust the pionk white one by its self.

Customer reply replied 8 years ago

Ok I have re checked alll the tests youve had me do so far.

I found a mistake I made on one.

You asked me to check the ecm and guage fuses for power,

I only checked for continuity.

I checked them for power today and they are both dead.

Sorry I hope I havent caused any problems.

Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago

I'll have to patch the big dent in the wall where I've been banging my head.... just kidding...

 

The pink wire from the ignition switch feeds these fuses. Make sure that you have power at the pink wire at the ignition switch with the key in run. Then if so, make sure the fuses are still good, one of them could have blown when we hooked up the jumper wire.

 

If all that is good then we are down to a problem with the pink wire from the ignition switch going to the fuse box. You can make a 20amp fused jumper wire from the ignition switch to the fuse box to bypass the wire in the vehicle as a temporary test. You should be able to just poke the wire in from the back of the connectors so you don't have to cut anything. Be sure all other wires and connectors are connected and then try to start the car.

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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

where do I connect the wire to the fuse box?

The ECM fuse or the guage fuse?

Customer reply replied 8 years ago

Found a wire we left unplugged, plugged it back in, the fuses have power again now

the jumper didnt help, still wont start

Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago
So you have power at the fuses now... but still no power at the injector?
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

right

Found out whats clicking when I run the jumper from battery to injector,

There are 2 relays on the firewall on the passenger side under the hood

Its the one towards the drive side

Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago

1) Can you tell me the wiring colors on both relays... especially the one that clicks?

2) Does the relay only click one time?

3) I'm not sure if I asked you this yet... with the jumper wire installed, do the dash lights work?

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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

Ok here goes

with and without the jumper the volt lite and oil lite only come, no change

the relay that clicks only clicks once, it has gray, black/white, orange black, and green wires.

the other relays has orange/ white, green/white, green, and blue wires, it does not click

Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago

Ok, gonna look at the schematics.... brb

 

While I'm doing that I want you to jumper pin #23 at the ECM (Brown/White) wire to check if the service engine soon light comes on. Leave your red wire jumpered for now too.

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Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago

I meant pin 22 above.... black connector pin 22 brown/white wire.

 

Ok, the relay that is clicking is the fuel pump relay.

 

Can you put the old computer back in and see if that makes any difference with the warning lights or power to the wire at the injector?

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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

nope

had to turn it in for a core charge, it was exactly the same before i changed the computer

Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago
Did you try jumpering pin 22 in the black conenctor to ground while the jumper to the red wire was installed too?
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

nope

first time you mentioned that one

where is pin 22?

i will try that next

Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago
I mentioned it a couple of responses ago... didn't know if you saw it. Pin 22 at the ECM connector. Basically we are trying to provide direct power and ground for the CEL to see if we can get it to light up!
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

negative

cel did not come on

Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago
This was tried with the red wire jumpered to power and pin 22 in the black connector jumpered to ground and the key on?
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago
yes
Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago

Ok, connector C210 is behind the passenger side of the instrument panel. The power wire for the injector and the ground wire for the check engine light run through this connector. Right now I don't have any info as to how many wires are in it and what colors but I will search for more info in the schematics on that.

You should at least have:

Pink/Black

Brown/White

Orange

White/Black

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Customer reply replied 8 years ago
ok will see if i can find it
Customer reply replied 8 years ago
i found a connector up behind the ECM that has those 4 wires + several others
Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago
Can you leave the connector connected and check the voltages on both sides by backprobing?
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Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago
Hey there, just wanted to check your status and make sure you got my previous message....
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

Ya got it

Yes I can Do That it clips to the under dash so its accessible

Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago
That was quick... I didn't want you to think I forgot about you. Just let me know those readings when you get some time.
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

Just those 4 wires or all of them?

Key on or off?

Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago

Just those 4.... both sides of the connector. All other wires plugged in, no jumpers installed.

 

Key off

Key on

Key in start position

 

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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

Ok

Will let you know tomorrow

Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago
Okie Dokie...
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

ok here goes

Checked the 4 wires across connector. none had any power in any position.

Hope its the right connector a couple of the wires changed colors at connector.

The pink/black changed to pink/white and and the brown/white chaned to gray

the black/white and orange did not change.

I only turned it over 2 cranks on each wire and it killed the battery, not even enough juice left to beep the key alarm.

had it on the charger all day was fresh and full

sounds like maybe a short someplace??????

 

Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago

Ok....

 

The pink/black goes to pink/white

the brown/white should remain brown/white

white/black and orange also stay the same.

 

Something is really odd here! I need you to check the ECM and GAGES fuses again for power. These fuses power up these wires and we need to be certain there is power..... check with key in run and key in start position.

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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

ok but will have to charge the battery again tomorrow and check afyer work

its completely dead

Customer reply replied 8 years ago

I dont know whats goin on now

Had the battery on the charger alll day and its still dead, didnt take a charge at all

so couldnt check those fuses

Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago
Sounds like it's time for a new battery.... or a new charger? Just let me know when you have those readings.
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

Sorry ran out of money, fridays payday and i'll get those readings sat. morn

have to get new batt cables and maybe a batt. but i'll be beack on it this weekend.

Was wodering if I need the steering wheel installed to check all this stuff.

Let me know

Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago
The steering wheel can be off, that shouldn't affect anything. I can't wait to get this one figured out!
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

ok

got the battery battery back in

checked the ecm and gauge fuses again

had power at the wires on the back of each but no reading across the front of the fuses checked the back from the wire to ground

Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago
What color were the wires for the fuses? Are you saying you probed into the back of the box? Do you have voltage on only one wire for each fuse?
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

The ecm fuse is pint white

the guages fuse is pink black

there is only one wire on each fuse

i checked the voltage from the wire to a good ground

from the front no voltage

guess thats why, only one wire

Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago

Ok, when you were checking from the front, you should leave the fuse in place and just probe the legs of the fuse. Now i assume you measured power at the back with the fuse installed with the key in run.

 

If that is correct then the power feed to the fuses is good, the fuses are good and the fuse box is good. (Just thinking out loud here....)

 

On the brake pedal is a switch. There are 2 wires... pink/black and purple. Check both of these for power with the key in run.

 

Also, use a test light for all of these tests including the fuses you just checked. You may get a reading of battery voltage but it might not be enough amps to make the circuit work. If you measure battery voltage with a meter but the test light does not light, then we have a low current flow which we will need to solve. Let me know what you measure.

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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

OK

with the test lite on the front of the fuses they have power, test lite lit up brite

The pink/ black and purple wires at the brake pedal both have power lit up the test lite brite.

With my volt meter both fuses and both wires read 8 volts.

All above done with key in run.

Customer reply replied 8 years ago

Forgot to tell you, I had the battery checked and they told me it read 12 volts on the high end, but the low end cranking volts were low

They said try and charge it again, it might recover.

Dont know if that has anything to do with whats goin on, thought it may be helpful tho

Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago

Ok, on the back of the cluster is a pink/black wire which is the power feed to the check engine light. Check this for power and make sure you use a known good ground. If it lights up then check using the brown/white wire as a ground. Do these tests with the key in run.

 

Also, check the red injector wire again with the test light and meter.

 

Check the battery voltage too, if the fuses read 8V then the battery is probably getting low again.

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Customer reply replied 8 years ago
which cluster?
Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago

The instrument cluster where the check engine light is located.

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Customer reply replied 8 years ago
ok
Customer reply replied 8 years ago

The red wire at the injector had pwer with both the test lite and the meter. the meter read 10 volts here.

Do I have to take dash board out to check the pink/wire?

I found it I think, the pink black from the brake pedal splices into it and then it runs right up behind the cluster, but cant get the back of the cluster.

Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago

When we started all this there was no voltage at the injector wire?

 

By any chance does the service engine soon light work now?

 

Have you tried to start it?

 

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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

thats correct there was no power at the injector before

no the check engine lite still doesnt come on

just tried to start it, no good,

 

 

 

Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago
Coming off of the battery, look for an orange wire with a fusible link. There may be a single wire connector. Disconnect the connector and check for corrosion. Also tug on the fusible link and see if it stretches. If it does, then the wires inside are no good.
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago
Ok. found the orange wire
No corrosion in the connector, the link is solid no stretch at all
Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago

Arggh! Have you accessed the back of the cluster yet? I'd really like to check the wire all the way at the end of the circuit.

 

I'm still trying to figure out how we now magically have power at the injector wire!

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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

Havent got the dash out yet

Looks like theres about 5 screws on the bottom of the cluster part of the dash

If I remove those screws will it lift out so I can get at the wires?

Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago

Hmmm, I didn't realize how involved it was. You need to remove the trim plate, then the trim pad and then the cluster. Let's try something else.

 

When you replaced the ECM, did you swap your PROM out of the old one?

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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

Yes

Thats the black plug in unit in back right?

 

Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago

It's the chip looking thing that plugs in under the cover.

 

Check for power on that orange wire at the connector with your light and meter.

Also check pins 10 and 15 for power at the ECM (both orange wires).

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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

All three wires have pwer

Checked with lite and meter, all 3 lit up

Wire at connector read 11 volts

pins 10 & 15 both read 10 volts

Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago
Ok, when we started there was no power to the injector, ecm and ignition module. Now that we have power at the injector. Go back and check for power at the ignition module pink/black wire and the ECM pin 16 pink/black wire. Let's see if power came back to them too??
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago
Which pink/black wire?
Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago
ignition module pink/black wire and the ECM pin 16 pink/black wire
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago
Thats the one by the coil pack under the hood?
Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago
Yupper! IT's one of the wires you checked in the beginning. It's hard to believe we have been going back and forth on this for over a month now.
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

Ya it is

Give me an old chevy and i can make them run forever

This new computer stuff baffles me

Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago
Well, let me know about the voltages on those wires. It's strange how the readings never seem to stay the same.
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

pink/black at ecm pin 16 key off dead

key on lites test lite, 9 volts on meter

Pink/black at ignition under hood no pwer key on or off with test lite, couldnt get at with meter

Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago

Ok, now make sure you still have good battery voltage and it's not going dead again!

 

Go to the ignition switch. Ground the Dark Green wire (bulb test) and see if the temp light comes on.

 

Also, with the key in run check all wires and tell me which colors have voltage and how much voltage.

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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

battery still good, 10+volts

There are 8 wires on the switch

The only green is a double green, grouned with key off did not lite up temp lite

With key on:

Have power with test lite and read 9 volts, green, tan/wht, orange, 2 reds, pink and brown.

Yellow did not lite test lite and read 0 volts

Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago

Ok, the double green should get grounded with the key in the bulb test or start mode. Turn the key to run and then ground the double green wire with a fused jumper wire. The temp light should come on then. It will also come on with the key in run and grounding the gree/white wire at the coolant temp sensor. If we can verify that the temp light comes on then we will know that we also have power to the CEL since they are on the same wire going to the instrument cluster.

 

Also, I am a little concerned that the battery is only registering 10V and the switch is only 9V. I would expect the battery voltage to be closer to 12 and the switch voltage to be very close to 12 also!

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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

ok

checked the double green and the green/white

they both lit up the temp lite

Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago
Ok, this is good news that means that power is getting to the cluster. So now we can narrow down on the ground side for the Check Engine Light. Either the ECM is not sending the signal, the wire between the ECM and cluster is bad or the bulb itself is bad. So once again with the key in run I wan't you to ground the brown/white wire at connector 1 pin 22 on the ECM and look for the CEL to come on.
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

Ok

cel did not lite up

checked with key of and in run, no cel

Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago

Ok, so that has to be a wiring problem or a bulb problem. Do you know for certain that the CEL bulb worked before?

 

With the key in run check C2 pin1 blue wire at ECM for voltage. Then unplug the injector and check again.

 

 

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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

ok, with the key in run C2-1, blue wire has power with injector plugged in

no power with it unplugged

I am not sure if the CEL was working on not, I think it was, but my son who drives it says it never came on at all

Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago

Ok, It now seems that we have power everywhere we are supposed to BUT the ignition module. So run your jumper wire from the battery positive to the pink/black wire at the ignition module. You will have to splice it into the wire for now and leave the connector plugged into the ignition module. After you do this:

1) Try to start

2) Watch fuel injector for fuel pulsing out of it

3) If no fuel then disconnect injector and use the test light with the clip on one wire and the probe on the other. Look for the light to blink when cranking the engine.

4) Check for spark using a spark tester or a screwdriver if you don't have the tester.

 

Let me know if you need clarification on any of this.

 

5) If you have spark but no fuel injector pulse then try spraying a little ether into the throttle body and see if it will try to start.

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Customer reply replied 8 years ago
the ignition module connector is down by the coil pack under the hood right?
Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago
Yep, remember you checked voltage there once or twice (maybe 3 times?) There is a picture of it near the beginning of this conversation.
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago
ok thanks will let you know
Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago
ok
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

Ok

spliced in the jumper

Still no start

No fuel coming out of injector

Test lite did not blink, no pulse

No spark

#1&#2 plugs are soaked with oil

#3&#4 plugs are completely dry

Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago

I'm out of town for a few days with limited access to a computer. I'll have to catch up with you when I come back.

 

For now, remove the ignition control module. The crank sensor is mounted to the bottom of it. Remove the crank sensor and clean the connections between the sensor and module. Also take an ohm reading of the crank sensor with your meter (if it has that function)

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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

have been down with the flu for a week now

trying to figure out which bolts to remove to get the coill assy out so i can get to the crank sensor

can you send me a diagram or tell which ones?

theres a 1/2" bolt top and nut on stud bottom on the drivers side edge looks like it takes off the wholesection down to the block

and a half dozen or so 5/16 screws and nuts around the coil and wire connectors

not sure where to start

Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago

Sorry to hear you were sick! Hope you are feeling better now. Leave the nuts in place they hold the coils to the module. I think there are only 2 bolts next to the coil towers that remove the whole assembly from the car. You can see the holes in the picture below.

graphic

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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

Yep am good to go again now thanks

will get after it again tomorrow after work

Thats the 2 1/2 ones, pretty easy access with the plug wires out the way

Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago
Yep sounds like you know where they are.... let me know what happens. You know where to find me Smile
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

OK

Got the bolts off the coil pack

Whats the trick to gett it off the engine?

Do I need to pry it loose?

Isnt budging at all

Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago
The only thing holding it in now should be the crank sensor. You don't want to pry too hard or it will break. Try spraying all around the base plate with some WD40 or other penetrating oil. GENTLY try twisting the base plate to see if you can break the crank sensor loose.
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

ok will try tomorrow

 

Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago
If possible let it soak overnight with the spray.
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

Ok, have sprayed it and let it soak over night twice and still cant budge it.

Dont know what else to do

Bout ready to scrap it and start over

Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago

Ok...... hook everything back up. Remove any jumper wires. Make sure everything is completely stock. I found a great chart for the PCM connectors. I want you to check each wire and compare to the data in the key on column. Don't worry about the engine run column.....welll... because it won't run yet!

graphic

graphic

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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

OK

Where is the 24 pin connector?

Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago
These connectors are on the PCM. You need to leave it hooked up and gently probe from the back of the connector.
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago
pcm, is that the computer?
Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago

Yes, it's the computer.

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Customer reply replied 8 years ago
and I check these with the meter from the wire to ground with the key on correct?
Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago

The wires that should measure voltage you check with wire to ground with key on.

The wires that should measure ground you check with wire to power with key on

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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

so where to i get power to check the ground wires?

all the way to the battery?

Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago

The battery is the best spot!

 

Also be sure to test battery voltage first. We will need this as a baseline reading. It should be close to 12V.

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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

The leads on my meter arent long enough to go all the way from the computer to the battery

Anyplace inside the car I can use?

Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago

The best thing to do is make a jumper wire connected from the battery to your meter lead. This will give the most reliable measurements.

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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

ok some of the wires are different colors than on that char i willl list all wires and colors and what they read for the tests.

White Plug:1 blue8+v ,2 drk grn/wht 0v, 3 red 0v, 4 gry/blk 0v, 5light blu orng 8+v, 6wht 0v, 7lhgt blu/wht 2v, 8lght drn/blk8+v, 9lght grn/wht 2v, 10orng 8+v, 11gry 6v, 12blk/wht 0v, 13blk/wht 0v, 14blk/tan 0v, 15orng 8+v, 16pnk/blk 8+v, 17lght blu/blk8+v,18orng/blk 0v, 19blk/tan 0v , 20gry 0v,21drk blu 0v, drk grn/red 6v, 23 no wire, 24drk grn0v

Black Plug:1orng 4.5v, 2prpl.33v, 3blu 3v, 4 no wire, 5tan/yllw 1.5v, 6prpl 0v, 7tan/blk 0v, 8yllw 3.5v, 8prpl 0v, 10grn 3v, 11drk blu/wht 3.5v, 12blk 3v, 13yllw/blk 0v, 14drk brwn 0v, 15 wht/blk 0v, 16blk/red 0v, 17 0v, 18no wire, 19 drk blu .6v, 20 lght grn 5v, 21drk grn /wht 8+v, 22brwn/wht 0v, 23 tan 0v, 24lght blu/blk 0v.

That is all the wires on the back of the computer and there voltages.

Customer reply replied 8 years ago

Forgot to tell you the battery voltage

With my little meter it read 10.5 volts

All the wiers above that say 8+ volyts also read 10.5 volts

Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago
Sorry for the delay, I was having some technical difficulties... I will print this out and compare everything tonight. Will have something for you tomorrow.
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Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago

Ok, I compared all of the voltages to the chart and there are a couple of weird ones that don't look right!

 

I'd like you to recheck the black connector:

Pin 3

Pin 8

Pin 12

Pin 15

 

Then unplug the coolant temp sensor ONLY and recheck those pins

Then unplug the throttle position sensor ONLY and rechech those pins

 

So you should have 3 sets of voltages to report back with. I'm particullary concerned with the ALDL Diag pin showing ground instead of 5V and the coolant/tps ground showing voltage instead of ground. I'm wondering if there is a shorted wire...

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Customer reply replied 8 years ago
where is the throttle position sensor?
Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago

The tps is on the throttle body. It is on the opposite side that the throttle cable connects to. This sensor measures how far open the throttle plate is.

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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

ok here goes

with every thing plugged in

pin3 dark blue wire, 3 volts

Pin8,yellow wire, 1 volt

pin 12, blk wire, 0 volts

pin 15, blk wht wire, 4 volts

With coolant sensor unplugged

pin 3, 3 volts

pin8,2 volts

pin 12, 0 volts

pin 15, 2 volts

With throttle pos sensor unplugged

pin 3, 3 volts

pin 8, 1 volt

pin 12, o volts

pin 15, 0 volts

these are with my meter set on 50 volt setting

with the meter on the 10 volt setting pin 3 pegs the meter, 10 plus volts

 

Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago

Is this a digital or analog meter?

 

The first set of measurements is different this time around.

 

Also,I 'm not sure why the meter would read 10+V on one setting but only 3V on the other??

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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

its a cheap little analog meter i picked up for these tests

didnt make any sense to me either that it read diferent when i changed the setting

dont know whats going on, every time you have me recheck something ita always different from the last time

Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago

Ok, I wonder if it's time to ditch the analog meter and get one of these:

 

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_03482139000P?keyword=multimeter

 

I'm getting worried about the constantly changing results and wonder if we are chasing our tails because of this....

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Customer reply replied 8 years ago
After a lot of thought I decided to junk the car. Just cant keep throwing good money after bad. Thanks for trying to help me fix the thing antways
Chevy Mechanic: Mazda Ed, Auto Service Technician replied 8 years ago
Sorry we didn't get this fixed. I didn't realize how many printouts and notes I had until I cleared them all from my desk yesterday! I really wanted to figure this out and I'm glad you stuck with me so long.
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Customer reply replied 8 years ago

no problem

will keep you in mind if i ever run into another chevy problem

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