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Dr., is 25 ml/kg/day a lot of IVF. Can pleural effusion be…

Dr. Rebecca, is 25 ml/kg/day...
Dr. Rebecca, is 25 ml/kg/day a lot of IVF. Can pleural effusion be caused buy dental disease, from infection?
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Answered in 1 hour by:
4/24/2018
Rebecca
Rebecca, Cat Veterinarian
Category: Cat Veterinary
Satisfied Customers: 18,140
Experience: More than 30 years of companion animal practice.
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25 ml/kg/per day does sound like a lot. That would mean in an average 11 pound cat, there would be 125 ml per day. That is about a half a cup a day.

I have not seen or heard of pleural effusion caused by dental disease infection.

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
oh my god, I feel like they put her in CHF then...she had heart issues
Customer reply replied 3 months ago
what does LRS + 16 meq kci/ L @ 4cc / hr mean?

I am confused perhaps. I thought you were asking about the buildup of pleural effusion being 25 ml/KG/day. That would be a lot. Do you mean that was the fluid rate she was getting? That would be the right amount for a dehydrated cat.

LRS is a type of fluid (Lactated Ringers). They added potassium to it. They put 16 meq (milliequivalent) of potassium in a liter of LRS, and gave that at 4cc per hour to get her potassium up.

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
I mean fluids give to her..she had heart issues, is that too much?

Not if she was dehydrated and low in potassium.

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
but I feel like they gave too much and started having CHF..I am the one who had necropsy and they said FIP. THey said coronavirus antigen seen in macrophages of mesenteric lymph node would be diagnostic for FIP
Customer reply replied 3 months ago
hello? would they have seen fluid in lungs in necropsy? why do you feel it still was FIP? Her potassium got high then after fluids...it said she got overhydrated

If there was fluid in the lungs, they should have seen that at necropsy. I remember reading the necropsy report and it was pretty conclusive for FIP.

I feel it was FIP because she was positive for Corona inside macrophages; that is how we diagnose FIP, by finding Corona virus inside macrophages. That is how Corona virus causes FIP.

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Customer reply replied 3 months ago
even if it was in they saw the virus in macrophages of mesenteric lymph node? Necropsy also said renal adenocarcinoma, is that usually bad? is pleural effusion usually poor prognosis no matter what?

I don't have the report, so I am going by memory but I think they said that the kidney disease was not unusual in a cat her age. Pleural effusion is bad, unless you can find the cause and it can be treated or reversed.

They did not "see" the virus in the macrophages, but tests for Corona virus antigens in macrophages were positive and that is indicative of FIP.

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Kindly consider rating my answer if this is helpful; our conversation has been going on for a month and I am only compensated by the website when you rate me!

Rebecca
Rebecca, Cat Veterinarian
Category: Cat Veterinary
Satisfied Customers: 18,140
Experience: More than 30 years of companion animal practice.
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Customer reply replied 2 months ago
they said it was renal adenocarcinoma...is that aggressive cancer..
Customer reply replied 2 months ago
they said prescence of coronavirus antigen within macrophages of lymphnode was proof of FIP. IS that what you mean?
Customer reply replied 2 months ago
Hello? do you think this could be from systemic infection from periodental disease?

I am so sorry, I did respond about the kidney adnenocarcinoma, but I see my answer did not post. I might have to see the pathology report again, but my memory is that they thought it was not an unusual finding in a cat her age.

The best proof of FIP is finding presence of Coronavirus inside macrophages. That is how FIP works; it gets inside macrophages and turns these cells that should be the first line of defense against infection against the body, causing the disease known as FIP. You can't get better proof that this was FIP than that.

I do not think it was systemic infection from dental disease; I think it was FIP.

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Customer reply replied 2 months ago
yea, but isn't in lymph node more for dry form? why did she have effusin then? and the effusion was high WBC

There are no rules with FIP, it can affect any organ and it may or may not cause effusions. High white cells in the effusion may indicate a secondary infection, or the white cells may have been present due to inflammation.

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Customer reply replied 2 months ago
you don't think a tooth infection or abscess could lead to systemic infection? can you comment on the renal adenocarcinoma they found on necropsy. They definatley found that in addition to kidney disease.

A tooth abscess could cause systemic infection, but not the pleural effusion, and the corona antigen inside the macrophages.

I would need to see your pathology report again; it has been awhile since I saw it, and I am going from memory. I seem to remember a comment about the renal disease being consistent with her age.

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Customer reply replied 2 months ago
wouldn't systemic infection cause pleural effusion though? They said she had renal adenocarcinoma..is that usualyy bad prognosis?
Customer reply replied 2 months ago
hello?
Customer reply replied 2 months ago
hello? she had positive PCR on effusion for FIP too

Sorry, I have been away and not online for awhile.

Systemic infection would not normally cause a pleural effusion in my experience. The positive PCR for FIP is pretty good evidence this was FIP.

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
there was a left shift..is that for bactria infection?

A left shift simply means that new white blood cells were being released into the circulation due to inflammation. Infection can be a cause of inflammation, but is not the only reason for a left shift.

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
Ive read FIP can cause left shift, do you agree with that? the effusion that had 76% non degenaerate neutrophils, wouldn't vbacteria more likely be degenerate, not non degenerate?

Anything that causes inflammation can cause a left shift.

I need you to accept the more Q and A offer before we continue.

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
why would the cornell gross necropsy report not mention enlarged lymph node buit then mention it in final histological report? necropsy said pleuritis had degenerate neutrophils, doesn't that mean bactiera? the effusion was non degenaetre neutrophils..

"Degenerate neutrophils" are white blood cells that have been fighting infection or inflammation; it is not specific for a bacterial infection. It could be viral, fungal, bacterial, or noninfectious inflammation.

The lymph node mentioned in the histological report may not have been enlarged.

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
you think I was fip still? In helping tryo guess her age, most cats get hyperthyroid over age 10, with the average onset age of 12..do you agree with that? everything I read 95% cats are over 10 when they get that

Yes, I do think it was FIP. The necropsy report was conclusive, in my opinion.

Hyperthyroidism can be seen at any age, as young as 4, but the older the cat the more common hyperthyroidism is. Most of the cats I see are well past 10; 12 to 18.

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
when is the average onset of hyperthyroid you see? 12? whats the typical lifespan of cat nowadays? She had high blood sodium which I read cats with FIP or any kind of pleural effusion illness have low sodium. does that make FIP less likely, or one electrolyte doesn't mean much in sick cat?
Customer reply replied 1 month ago
she had spindle cell carcinoma on her leg 10 years before this, she had hyperthyroid for 5 years, would you say she was at least 15-16? she had only a few teeth left too

I can't say for sure the average; certainly over 10. I have seen dozens if not hundreds of hyperthyroid cats over the years, but have not kept track of their ages.

I see cats get cancer and die at 10 or less, and other live to 24 or more.

May things affect sodium levels. I suspect hers was high from dehydration, which is the most common cause of high sodium.

I can't guess how old she was, sorry.

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This question has been open now for 3 months. It might be time to consider closing it, and starting a new conversation on these topics.

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Customer reply replied 25 days ago
you see cats live to 24? I think the world record isn't even that high? what other causes high sodium? She had spindle cell carcinoma on back leg many years prior..what age is that common in?

I have seen a cat that was 30.

I need you to open a new question if you want to continue this conversation after 3 months.

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Customer reply replied 18 days ago
that would be a record..I did the extended service offer on this thread..older cats can get FIP, right, isn't it bimodal? do you realty think that's the case? A PCR on effusion came back positive too. she hwhat age does spindle cell cancer happen commonly?

Yes, you did the extended service, but it has been over 3 months. I am not compensated by the website when questions continue on like this, so I would appreciate a new question being started. You can request me if you like.

Cats most susceptible to FIP tend to be fairly young, or older cats.

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Customer reply replied 11 days ago
in your experience is renal denocarcinoma always have poor prognososis and short survival time? what age do cats typically get spindle cell carcinoma on back leg? 5-6?

It has been over 3 months with this question. I would appreciate a new question being started. You can request me if you like.

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Customer reply replied 4 days ago
she was taking tapazole for thyroid for nearly 5 years..it seemed to stopped being effective near end, does that happen? I was looking into radioactive iodine near the end and then she got sick. I worry it makes difference if I did it sooner, but as long as the tapazole was working I stuck with it

This is a new topic; your original question was about IV fluids.

The website asks us to request that when you have a new topic to please start another question.

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