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I can't seem to get voltage to my Ignition Coil, but my ASD…

I can't seem to...

I can't seem to get voltage to my Ignition Coil, but my ASD Relay and Fuse are fine as far as I can tell. I have 12 volts at both, but nothing at the connector to the Ignition coil. As well, I have continuity between the ASD Relay and one pin of the Ignition Coil Connector.

Mechanic's Assistant: How many miles are on the car? Has the car been starting normally?

Alot, and I haven't driven it in quite some time.

Mechanic's Assistant: What is the model of your '12 Jeep?

You're not a real person are you?

Mechanic's Assistant: Yes, I'm a bot. I make the process of talking to the mechanic more efficient and affordable by asking basic questions. Are you fixing your vehicle yourself? What have you tried so far?

I have replaced the ignition coil, but still no spark to the distributor cap ... it's a 96 Jeep Cherokee 4.0 L IL6

Mechanic's Assistant: Anything else you want the mechanic to know before I connect you?

There does not seem to be any voltage at the Ignition Coil Connector on either pin, but there is 12V at the Relay, the Relay seems to be good as I swapped it with the Starter Relay and the Starter still tried to kick over the engine.

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Answered in 6 minutes by:
1/22/2018
Edward
Edward, Service Technician
Category: Car
Satisfied Customers: 3,420
Experience: 20 + years experience on various makes and models.
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Hello and thanks for your question. My name is ***** ***** I will do all I can to help.

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At the ASD relay, do you see a GREEN/ORANGE wire coming out of it? If you pull the ASD relay out, and turn the key on, you should have power on two of the relay socket pins.

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
I don't see any wires, they are not visible as I have not taken the pd box out of its mounting bracket

Alright, no problem, but you do have continuity so we know that wire is good, can you tell me if you turn the key to the ON position whether or not you have 2 relay socket pins hot or just one?

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I will be right back, check those pins in the relay socket and let me know what you find there. thank you.

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
The middle one of the two that are facing the same direction, and then the left one of the three on the bottom
Customer reply replied 1 month ago
I also did not see any power at any of the injector relays, I used a paper clip to access the back of the relay while my daughter was turning it over, and I only got about .9 VDC if I remember correctly. Also, the resistance between one of the pins on the relay box was reading about 7.8 ohms, and then another was reading .28 ohms ... I don't remember which was which though.
Customer reply replied 1 month ago
Clarification as well since I wrote poorly. You have the Relay with no writing on it, to the left of that, you have the two horizontal slots, there is 12 VDC on the bottom slot, and then on the vertical slots below that, you have 12 VDC on the far left one.

Alright, give me just a minute here to decipher.

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
Sorry, I'm an Electronic Technician by training, a Building Automations Technician by trade, I dive into this Jeep when I have to but I have 0 formal training on Vehicle repairs. I'm familiar with electronic theory, but I can not seem to figure out which pins of the relay are which on the diagram. Otherwise I think I would be more helpful.

I understand, I'm working on that part.

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on the ASD relay itself, do you see 85, 86, 87 and 30?

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
Give me a second and I will go grab it and let you know.
Customer reply replied 1 month ago
No, I have 1-5 and I finally see the diagram of the relay, so let me translate to your diagram real quick

Alright, I'm wondering if the ECM is grounding the ASD relay like it should. Alright, I'm thinking jump power in the ASD relay socket from the fuse, to the pin that goes to the ignition coil and see if it runs then. Did it shut off while driving? or wouldn't start after it sat a while? any burned up wiring harnesses anywhere, exactly what happened there?

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
I have voltage on 5, which is B17 on the diagram you sent me and 1 which should equate out to B20 or B18, although I'm not quite sure which one is which on your diagram.

Alright, are there 4 pins on the bottom of your ASD relay or 5?

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
The Jeep has been sitting for a while, it is my back up driver when my 6.4L F-350 decides to shit out on me. We needed to get it registered, and I couldn't get it started. Found I had a bad battery, and replaced it and still couldn't get it to start. Started checking fuel, cause I knew the gas was low in it, but I still seem to be getting fuel pressure on the Fuel Rail Schrader Valve. Then I started looking for spark, and I didn't seem to be getting any, but as I was driving my kids back to their moms tonight, I realized I wasn't grounding the case of the testing spark plug I had ... I'm retarded sometimes.
Customer reply replied 1 month ago
There are 5 pins

Alright, sounds good, There should only be power on two pins at the ASD relay, are there actually 5 pins in the relay socket or just 4, because my diagram is showing 4.

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
I don't know if the fuel pressure is correct, when I hooked up the gauge it read zero, but every time I bled the Schrader valve, fuel would build back up in the Fuel Rail ... so I started really looking at my Ignition coil, as I didn't seem to see anything else. I also did the Starting Fluid test, and injected that fluid directly into the Throttle Body, and there was nothing.

With key ON, we should have power to the + side of the coil for sure.

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
I will go check, there are five pins on the relay, but I didn't check which ones are actually being utilized. I'll be right back.

Alright, sounds good.

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
The middle vertical pin on the relay is not utilized, also, I re-verified my Voltage, Pin B16 has voltage, not B17, and Pin 2, again, without tearing the box apart I can't tell if that's the Primary, but it should be.
Customer reply replied 1 month ago
It's possible that the relay is not clicking over, I would have to hook the relay directly up to the battery to verify that I hear the click indicating it's changing position, to pass the 12V from B16 to B17, which I'm not able to figure that out tonight

I want you to jump 30 to 87 with a jumper wire or paper clip and see if it fires up and runs then.

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You have power to two pins, (30 and 86) which is right. the engine computer grounds the relay at pin 85, and then 87 is hot going to the injectors and coil.

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Alright, so jump 3 to 5 then. should simulate the relay closing. 3 to either 5 or 4 depending on where your pin is in the relay socket. looks like jump 3 to 5 to me.

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
Gonna go try this now

I see, I say jump 3 to 5 and power up the coil and injectors and see if it runs then.

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
Done but still no success ... I was able to verify that when I jumped the pins, that 12 VDC showed up at the Ignition Coil Connector though.

Alright, so even jumping the relay and powering up the ignition coil and injectors did not let it start correct?

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
maybe voltage was getting there the whole time and my Fluke 187 III just isn't quick enough to catch the voltage on a stable 12 VDC Signal
Customer reply replied 1 month ago
Correct, so I'm back to a possible fuel pump issue ... just because I have fuel, doesn't mean I am getting enough.

Alright, so with the ASD relay in, you do have power to the coil positive side with key on?

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
Or as my Ex-Wifes husband pointed out, maybe I have a cracked block that is not allowing the pressure to build up as needed within the chambers ... which would really suck. But I'm not ready to be that morbid yet.
Customer reply replied 1 month ago
I'm 95% certain yes ... I have power to 3

It should still run on 4 or 5 cylinders but run bad if the block was cracked or head gasket bad or any of that.

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
B16

Alright, check an injector with a test light or volt meter on GREEN and ORANGE wire with key on, should be hot. if it is, pull a plug wire and put an old spark plug or spark tester in it, and crank it over and see if it sparks when cranking would be the next step in my opinion.

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
Do I need to ground the casing ... I have 6 new spark plugs, I've been using one to test all day, but I have had no success. I can try it now with the jumper in there (to be honest, I misplaced the original relay ... I let my son look at it and now I can't find it anywhere). Let me go check real quick though. On the voltages to the Injectors.

Alright, yes, ground the plug, I clamp it with some visegrips if possible,

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It should have 40 psi of fuel pressure fyi. with key on engine off,

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
Voltage is on all the Fuel Injectors, checking the Spark now

Actually the spec is 47 to 51 psi. but at least 40 with key on engine off.

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Let me know what happens with the spark.

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
When I hooked up the Pressure Gage to the Schrader valve, I got 0 ... but I'm not sure if I hooked it up right. There was what looked like a bleed tube on the set up, and I tried to get pressure with the gage hooked up, and got 0, and then tried to allow air to go through the bleed tube and still got 0. I just got done with what you asked, and I still saw no spark, I tried laying the spark plug against some metal, and I also wrapped a stripped wire to wrap around the threading, and set it to the block, the negative terminal, and the chasis, and still got no spark.

Alright, if you don't have spark when cranking, we need a noid light, to plug into the injector harness then you crank it over and see if the noid light blinks indicating injector pulse. It could have a bad crank sensor, you did have the ASD relay in and everything hooked back up and all the fuses in when checking for spark correct?

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
I had the jumper and yes all the other relays and fuses. I don't have a noid light I don't think, and it's 9:20 P.M. for me now so my autoparts stores are closed. I guess that brings me to a conclusion tonight.

Alright, I follow you, what I would do is get a noid light (or borrow one from auto parts store if they have it in their rental tool department), see if you have injector pulse, if you do have injector pulse but no spark, then likely the coil itself could be bad. If you don't have injector pulse and don't have spark, then I would head towards the crank shaft position sensor near the bellhousing in the back of the engine, check the harness to it best you can. We need to get spark and injector pulse back first before even worrying about the fuel pressure in my opinion, because without injector pulse and spark it still won't run even with fuel pressure. Check the connectors at the engine computer as well, make sure they aren't corroded and chafed up anywhere. That's about as much as I can recommend I believe. Thank you.

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The noid light plugs right into the injector harness, and should blink when cranking if you have injector pulse. The engine computer pulses the ground to the injectors.

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Customer reply replied 1 month ago
Ok, thanks very much for all the help and advice. I hope you have a good night Ed!

Absolutely, you as well. Thank you.

Edward
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Experience: 20 + years experience on various makes and models.
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