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2004 PT Cruiser, 2.4 Auto, NON turbo wont start, blows #13…

2004 PT Cruiser, 2.4...

2004 PT Cruiser, 2.4 Auto, NON turbo wont start, blows #13 fuse UNLESS I unplug the ASD relay.

Mechanic's Assistant: How many miles are on the car? Has the car been starting normally?

110,000. Ran BEAUTIFULLY. I replaced the timing belt and water pump (maintenance). When I started it, it idled rough and threw a code of P0127 and P0113. I disconnected the battery to reset, ran fine down the road, no change in rough idle. No codes. Drove for two days and it ran great with exception of rough idle. 3 rd day, blew 13 fuse and won't do a @#$%! thing!! I finally isolated the ASD removal will allow the fuse to stay good and the engine turns over but will not crank. I read that the asd is shutting down the ignition coil. ONLY code it has read since is P0113 (air intake temperature) which i have unplugged...

Mechanic's Assistant: Are you fixing your PT Cruiser yourself? What have you tried so far?

I am and I already explained in last statement

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Answered in 4 minutes by:
11/14/2017
Amedee
Amedee, Former ASE Master Tech
Category: Car
Satisfied Customers: 27,796
Experience: ASE certified tech advanced level specialist. Wisconsin certified emissions state inspector
Verified

Hello and welcome!

My name is ***** ***** I can assist you with your question.

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Are you looking for some possible causes?

Would you be willing to speak on the phone?

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Customer reply replied 6 months ago
call

You can request a phone call on your end and I will call you right away.

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Customer reply replied 6 months ago
No, I'm not ready to pay 26.00 . I am on a severely fixed income and this car is ALL I can afford...

NO problem. We can continue on this page.

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Customer reply replied 6 months ago
Do you have any direction??

I certainly do. One moment while I type.

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Customer reply replied 6 months ago
Hello
Customer reply replied 6 months ago
Whoops... lol I'm electronically challenged

Here are the most common causes.

  • Oxygen sensor
  • Ignition coil
  • (noise capacitor by the ignition coil)
  • fuel injectors
  • shorted wiring to the injectors/coil
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Keep in mind this is just a "starting point". My goal is to give you the best experience possible! I hope I have earned a 5-star rating! Please remember to rate my service by selecting the 5 stars at the top of the screen before you leave today. If you need more assistance, please use the reply box and let me know.

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Customer reply replied 6 months ago
What causes a short to the injectors or coil when the car was running beautifully BEFORE I changed the timing belt?

My experience is a pinched wire It would be the dark green wire with orange stripe.

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Customer reply replied 6 months ago
Where IS it located

What? The wire?

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It runs from the ASD relay through the wiring harness to the ignition coil, fuel injectors, and oxygen sensors.

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Customer reply replied 6 months ago
Have you run into this

YES

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I am glad I can help!

Please don't forget to honor your good faith deposit by rating my answer as "5 STARS or SMILEY FACES" for assisting you today.

Keep in mind, we can still continue this conversation at no further cost to you even after you rate my answer. Just reply back to me using this page and I will get it and get back to you ASAP!

I just ask that you allow time in between replies as I may be helping other customers or offline spending time with the family.

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Please let me know if you have any further questions.

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Customer reply replied 6 months ago
Did you cuss any

lol yes, just a bit. :)

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I am glad I can help! Have a great night and please dont forget to rate.

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Customer reply replied 6 months ago
I'm 58, ase certified as well and wiring has always been a favorite of mine. THIS has made me furious

I hear you sir and I understand as I have been there myself. Disconnect one component at a time (or maybe all of the fuel injectors and then the ignition coil to see which one prevents the fuse from blowing.

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Customer reply replied 6 months ago
done that

All of the components even the oxygen sensors?

If so, then you know the issue is in the wiring.

I am glad I can help!

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Customer reply replied 6 months ago
I unplugged BOTH 02 sensors and the fuse didn't blow anymore in the "on" posisition but DID blow as soon as you went to crank mode . WITH the asd relay unplugged, it cranks over but of course NO fire. Plug in the relay...kaboom... lol

YUP!

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Let me know when your ready to speak on the phone.

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Customer reply replied 6 months ago
COULD the ignition switch be the culprit?? This happened with NO warning and as you know, gm are notorious for that. However, Chrysler is a whole different MUCH more difficult system, yet MORE thourough and protective...

I have never come across an ignition switch causing this issue.

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Customer reply replied 6 months ago
I was grasping.....GM switches make em do silly things....

:)

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Customer reply replied 6 months ago
Will YOU be on here tomorrow evening and can I request YOU specifically??

YES. Dont start a new question though. Reply back to this one.

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Customer reply replied 6 months ago
I will talk to you tomorrow evening. I am in immense pain at the moment and I am going to medicate and lay down. Thanks for the quick response.
Customer reply replied 6 months ago
When we are through, I want to make SURE you get credit AND receive payment.

Your welcome. Hope you feel better.

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Customer reply replied 6 months ago
Are you still awake?? I dozed for a bit but am restless. Crap like this weighs on me. (mechanics pride)....
Hello! I am online for a short time yet tonight.
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Customer reply replied 6 months ago
Okay, after I PEELED the spaghetti apart, I traced EVERY !$%#@ wire and found NO breaks. I lost my temper (imagine that) and stuck a @#$!% paper clip in it and cranked it UNTIL it turned red. The ONLY thing that that got warm was the ignition coil on the 1 & 4 side. Nothing else was warm or smoldering (lol) Sooooo you know, I DID this with the intake plenum removed, ALL sensors unplugged with the exception of the coil. I actually 4got that one....
Customer reply replied 6 months ago
IF you fix this, I will give you HALF of the six winning lottery numbers.... ;-)
We really need to speak on the phone
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Customer reply replied 6 months ago
HOW much will ALL this cost me when were as far as we can go??
I don’t do the billing sir. You should be able to view everything on your end.
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Customer reply replied 6 months ago
The %#[email protected]! won't take my information!! I am so mad I could set a match to it all... lol WHAT are your suggestions??
Customer reply replied 6 months ago
You still there??
I am here. Do you have a wiring diagram of this circuit? If not, would you like one?
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Customer reply replied 6 months ago
However, why did the coil get warm and I find no bad wires??
Was this when cranking or only with the key on?
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Customer reply replied 6 months ago
Key on, no problem, start cranking, CLIP got red, coil was warm on 1 & 4 bank
A faulty cam or crank sensor could do this or incorrect valve timing might also cause this too provided the wiring is OK to the coil.
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Customer reply replied 6 months ago
Wiring to coil is fine. CRANK sensor I believe is the culprit...
Customer reply replied 6 months ago
WHERE is the $%#@! crank sensor...??
sir very possible
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Customer reply replied 6 months ago
Tomorrow will dawn a new day,,, Have a great evening. Talk tomorrow....I can't feel my leg...
Lol sounds good have a great night!
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Hello there!

I am just checking in to see how things are going and to see if you need any further assistance?

If so, please let me know as I will be happy to help.

Best Regards,

Amedee

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Customer reply replied 5 months ago
Amedee, I went out and did some OLD SCHOOL testing and found #1 and #4 plug were dark and wet. When I ohm'd the wires, they were bad. The coil was getting WARM on the 1 & 4 side. I replaced the coil, plug wires and plugs, replaced the @#$! #13 fuse and it cranked right up. It STILL had a miss but above 1000 rpm you could balance a nickle on the engine. I let it run for approximately 30 minutes, went inside to put the tools away in anticipation of a test drive. Came back out, it had died again, fuse blown. Pops just like before. The COIL was extremely warm on the 1 & 4 side just like the old one. I did a code read and got a P0522, P0113 and a P0172. It hasn't kept from blowing that fuse regularly. Soon as you key it up to the ON position, if it is more than 2 seconds...POP!!

Hello sir and sorry for the delay! Thank you for the detailed reply.

Would you be willing to speak on the phone?

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Customer reply replied 5 months ago
No, let's keep typing...
Customer reply replied 5 months ago
You still online??

Good morning sir.

I will be on the road traveling all day today so I will opt out and leave this question open for other experts.

Good luck.

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Roy
Roy, import/domestic specialest
Category: Car
Satisfied Customers: 7,420
Experience: ASE master tech for 40 years
Verified

do you still need help???

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Customer reply replied 5 months ago
Roy. Have you read up and followed my delima??

yes I have

you are going to have a hand full here. the asd relay controls many components. the easiest way to find the short is to disconnect the components and see which one blows the fuse.

you will need a lot of fuses. the previous tech listed some items as a start, I would disconnect them and see if the fuse still blows.

the first one I would disconnect is the pcm.

Roy

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Customer reply replied 5 months ago
I am OLD school Roy. I disconnected EVER sensor on that car, replaced the fuse and tested it until I found that the COIL was blowing it. I used a paper clip as a temporary "fuse" deliberately so I could determine WHERE the short was coming from. The coil got warm on the #1 and #4 side. I unplugged the plug wires and the resistance stopped and the fuse did NOT blow. I replaced the coil, wires and also the plugs. #1 & #4 were dark and moist as I suspected. I reinstalled the plenum, reconnected the sensors and it started instantly although it WOULD NOT idle below 1000 rpm's.I kept it running (pocket screwdriver in the throttle) and it ran for 15+ minutes. I removed my (rig) and restarted it at operating temperature. It WOULD idle but rough at about 650-700 rpm. When I revved it up or went above 1000 rpm, it showed no sign of hesitation, however IF I let off, it died. IF I brought the rpm's down slowly, it would stumble and then remain idling in a rough misfire manner. It also would NOT rev above 3700 rpm's, the (magic) stumble and cough number. You could quick rev it fine but at a gradual increase in RPM's, it would stall at 3700. Finally, I let it run for another 15 or so minutes while I washed up and put the tools away in anticipation of a test drive. When I went BACK outside, it was EXACTLY the same as it was BEFORE I ever started. #13 fuse blown, ALL codes ( somehow erased) and the coil on the #1 and #4 side was HOTTER than my cheatin ex wife!! I closed the hood and came inside and watched netflix......I don't wanna get too pee'd off because I JUST got pit of the hospital...wanna see a good movie?? Watch "Slingblade". lol Changed my entire mood!!

ok.

I doubt the coil is your issue. I think you have a harness issue somewhere around there that the wires are corroded or the sheathing is worn off and they may be partially or faullt touching each other at times. chrysler had many harness issues with the pt cruisers. I would start by peeling back the harness and checking the harness.

Roy

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Customer reply replied 5 months ago
It's stripped NAKED and had no bare spots whatsoever. Did THAT before I ever did anything else... ;-)

ok

the issue is it is somewhere in the harness.

did you remove the connector to the pcm as I suggested???

Roy

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Customer reply replied 5 months ago
Well, why WOULD I?? First off, this car ran PERFECTLY, no codes, no glitches UNTIL I replaced the timing belt, water pump and thermostat, ALL of which have NOTHING whatsoever to do with the PCM, sensors or anything electrical. It was when I disconnect the BATTERY that all of this nightmare came to exist. I am NOT a parts changer, I am a mechanic, a dang good one too. I don't waste hours looking at guesses. In all probability, with a P0522 reading along with ALL the other silly codes it has spit out since the belt change, either I have it ONE tooth off in timing or it just miraculously decided to crap the instant I reconnected the battery. I rolled that engine over 3 times and checked the alignment EACH revolution. I could have missed something. I have before and I married her....

in order to find the area of failure, compnents need to be disconnected to see when the short goes away.

I am here and not there. I cannot see it feel it or touch it. I am never have been and never will be a parts changer. I diag once and repair once. been that way for over 40 years.

anyway, I am out since you do not want to accept any help to find your failure.

have a good day.

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Customer reply replied 5 months ago
Good riddance.
Michael Solis
Category: Car
Satisfied Customers: 457
Experience: Lead Tech at Solis Auto Repair
Verified

Hello, my name is***** will be helping you out! I have over thirteen year of experience in the automotive industry for numerous different makes & models. I enjoy doing what I do, it is my life.

Based on reading your whole case, it appears the PCM is the problem thus, shorting out the coil as well and making the coil wire hot.

Now, to be sure you can install inline fuse for the fuel pump circuit & for the PCM to see which of the 2 fuses 10 AMP will burn first.

There should be a RED/white wires on the ASD relay. place your 10 amp inline fuse.

Then locate the fuel pump relay place your inline 10 amp fuse there

then at connector of PCM C1, pin 29

It looks like the coil you replaced shorted out again. I believe the original issue was that the coil shorted out thus frying the PCM. Let me know if this helps.

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Customer reply replied 5 months ago
I BELIEVE that YOU are right. Before you suggested that, I just came in from doing just that!! The car started, ran approx. 3 minutes and died. BOTH inline fuses were fried, the coil on 1 and 4 bank were all but on fire. The coil will NOT cool down UNTIL I unhook the battery. My question IS and has been, WHY would a battery replacement start all this mayhem on a beautifully running and dependable car???
Something caused a shock or just a coincidence that an ignition coil failed after restoring itself power again.
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As for the issue, it not not uncommon for that to happen. I have seen a number of occasions with the exact same issue
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Customer reply replied 5 months ago
Okay but WHAT is causing this?? 100% certainty. I have heard not from just THIS site but others, cam sensor, knock sensor, crank sensor, IAC motor, BOTH O2 sensors, timing belt 1 tooth off, wiring shorted, and the list goes on. I have debunked ALL of these with the exception I DID replace the coil BECAUSE it was hot and the plugs (1 ad 4 dark and damp) and 1 and 4 plug wire ohm'd out weak, which i suspect the coil ground them out. There has to be a logical explanation and I'm certain YOU are more in tune with this than most. My health sucks and I can't stand for long or I just black out. Pinched nerves apparently blocking off nerves to my legs. IF I could get it in here with my computer, I could fix it!! lol
Well, there’s no fuse in between the PCM and Ignition coil, if the coil fails and shorts out, it will then cause a short circuit to the PCM directly. Bad coils on different makes cause PCMs to fry such as Ford. If the inline fuse burns to the fuel pump, then the fuel pump is drawing too many amps trying to pump. Of course, you put inline fuse at he pump relay and for the coil to witness the coil fuse short out. PCM is bad because of the coil, then new coil became bad because the PCM is already shorted. I hope this makes sense to you. I’m so sorry about your health. Yeah if you were a machine you would definitely fix it lol! Please get well and try not to strain yourself too much, your health is important :).
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Customer reply replied 5 months ago
It makes PERFECT sense. A timing belt, water pump and thermostat (hard parts) have NEVER caused an electrical issue that I am aware of... lol I believe somehow when I took the OLD battery off and installed the new one, the computer "rebirthed" its logic and fried. I have no other logical explanation. I am in search for a PCM. Old story, my friends 2004 did precisely this same thing about 3 years ago. ALL the box part stores and two mechanic shops told him this or that and he spent 2200.00 and had it towed to his house where it sat for a year. ALL I did was replace the ground cable, installed ALL of his OLD sensors (the repair shops returned them) and put a USED battery on it. After I drained (siphoned) the tank,,,,that was a chore, I put in about three gallons of gas and it fired right up. he drove it 50+ miles with me in tow just in case, we got back and changed the oil and he has been driving it 50 miles round trip SINCE then and no issues. I have NO IDEA what happened to it or WHY it did but that truly is all I did.......
It was the GROUND cable! if it has corrosion it will definitely cause the similar situation your in. I have seen a bad corroded ground cable impact the effectiveness of the ground system causing an amperage increase. Make sure the coil is replaced with the PCM. Make sure the fuel pump is not drawing too much amperage as well. Glad we know where the problem lies. Please do not hesitate to come back if you need more information regarding your issue. Also please let me know if the information I have provided you with is helpful or not :).
Michael Solis
Category: Car
Satisfied Customers: 457
Experience: Lead Tech at Solis Auto Repair
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