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We have a 1990 Pontiac 6000 le 3.1L (fuel parts fit from…

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We have a 1990...

We have a 1990 Pontiac 6000 le 3.1L (fuel parts fit from 1991). This car set since 2011 though we started it at least once per year. This year it started up and idled well as before so I put it back on the road and within 50 miles it started running rough and then would not run at all. I did a fuel pressure test at 40psi. I replaced the fuel filter, pump, and fuel tank. It still would not run. I concluded it had bad injectors so I pulled out the fuel rail and found junk in the injectors. I cleaned out the injectors replacing two which failed an ohm test. The car then ran, but about 50 miles we were back to the same thing. I took it apart again and recleaned. There was not as much junk. I repeated this routine a third time. The last cleaning they were not so dirty, and it was running again. I let it idle for 5 hours to make sure it would run before I put it back on the road. I then took it onto the road, after 10 miles this time it started running rough again. I barely got home. I just let the car sit for a month but I didn't take it apart. I put injector cleaner and lubricant from Lucas and started the car up and it was running. I let it idle again for 3 hours this time and took it out on the road. It was running good but about a mile up the hill it died and now will restart, but will not run more than a few seconds. I redid the fuel test. With the switch on it is 40 psi. While running it drops to 30psi. As it dies it jumps again to 40psi. Just turning switch on and off consecutively... on the 5th time it does not jump to 40psi as before though the relay clicks. The pump does not come on yet when I start the engine it starts right up, but dies right away. Once it dies the fuel pressure begins to decline. I have gotten "code 44" while idling. Is there something else I should be looking at such as a defective fuel pump? The fuel pump, though it was new had been on the shelf for 15 years. Would a mass airflow sensor do this? What test can I do to determine this. I have concluded that though cleaning the injectors might help, setting for a time also helps. I'm not sure if by unplugging the mass air flow sensor while it is running I might be able to determine if it is the mass airflow sensor if it would actually run that way or is this something I should not do?

Mechanic's Assistant: Does the engine stall right after starting? And what about hesitation or jerking during acceleration?

Yes, within two or three seconds. Prior to the stalling which it is doing now, after it had set I did not notice a hesitation. By running rough you might say it had hesitations as it was dying out. The time before this last episode when I barely made it home, it would seem as if I could keep the car running by pumping the gas, otherwise it would die and not come back.

Mechanic's Assistant: Are you fixing your 6000 yourself? What have you tried so far?

Yes. See the first statement.

Mechanic's Assistant: Anything else you want the mechanic to know before I connect you?

I think that covers the problem.

Submitted: 10 months ago.Category: Car
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Answered in 6 minutes by:
9/22/2017
Auto Mechanic: Peter Bagley, Auto Service Technician replied 10 months ago
Peter Bagley
Peter Bagley, Auto Service Technician
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Satisfied Customers: 1,319
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Hello and welcome to just answer, my name is ***** ***** master tech of 44 years. I cannot see or hear your vehicle so I rely on your patience and input to help you better. I read your notes and have a few suggestions.

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Customer reply replied 10 months ago
What are your suggestions?
Customer reply replied 10 months ago
we would rather not call due to the expense if you could just write your suggestions.
Customer reply replied 10 months ago
we do not have a "smart phone" all I have is a trac phone and it doesn't work at the house. Answers will need to be sent via email if you need to or on here.
Customer reply replied 10 months ago
Will this take a while???
Customer reply replied 10 months ago
We'll wait for an email from you. Thank you. Since this question as not been answered yet, I hope no charges are made to my C/C.
Auto Mechanic: Peter Bagley, Auto Service Technician replied 10 months ago

Just a note on the phone service that you may have received.It is the sight offering this to you just to let you know of extra services you may want in the future, they are not mandatory.

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Customer reply replied 10 months ago
Are you still working on this question?
Auto Mechanic: Peter Bagley, Auto Service Technician replied 10 months ago

yes just a few more min

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Customer reply replied 10 months ago
I can check back tomorrow if it's going to take some time. We do not have internet or cell service at the house.
Auto Mechanic: Peter Bagley, Auto Service Technician replied 10 months ago

Code 44 is set when the O2 sensor signal voltage remains below.3 volts for 50 seconds or more and the system is operating in "closed loop"

The code 44 for lean exhaust is most likely caused by one or more of the following:

1.) O2 sensor wire - Sensor pigtail may be mis-positioned and contacting the exhaust manifold.

2.) Check for an intermittent ground wire between connector and sensor.

3.) Poor ECM to engine block ground.

4.) MAF Sensor - A MAF sensor that causes the ECM to sense a lower than normal airflow will cause the system to go lean. Disconnect the MAFsensor. If the lean condition is gone then replace the MAF sensor.

5.) Vacuum leaks can cause a lean condition and/or possibly a high idle. Check for cracked hoses a bad gasket or a faulty EGR or PCV Valve.

6.) fuel pressure - system will go lean, if pressure is too low.It may be necessary to monitor fuel pressure while driving the car at various road speeds and/or loads to confirm.

7.) Clogged injector or lean injector - perform an injector balance test..

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Auto Mechanic: Peter Bagley, Auto Service Technician replied 10 months ago

The problem when an engine sits for that long of a time not running and not stored properly is many, from skunky fuel, to gumming up sensors , also corrosion of electrical components.

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Auto Mechanic: Peter Bagley, Auto Service Technician replied 10 months ago

even though you may have added some fresh fuel there will still be old stuff lying in the lines and bottom of tank. For this reason I would put a can of octane booster and seafoam in the tank to do two jobs. As well as clean the maf sensor. and throttle body.

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Customer reply replied 10 months ago
4.) MAF Sensor - A MAF sensor that causes the ECM to sense a lower than normal airflow will cause the system to go lean. Disconnect the MAFsensor. If the lean condition is gone then replace the MAF sensor....
Is it safe to disconnect the MAF sensor while the car is running? Will the car run while it is disconnected?
Customer reply replied 10 months ago
We've already changed the gas tank.
Auto Mechanic: Peter Bagley, Auto Service Technician replied 10 months ago

if it does not very well, I would clean it and throttle body first

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Auto Mechanic: Peter Bagley, Auto Service Technician replied 10 months ago

you can use either throttle body or intake cleaner with a tooth brush to clean both.

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Customer reply replied 10 months ago
it should be taken off to clean?
Customer reply replied 10 months ago
I already ran MAF cleaner through the sensor.
Auto Mechanic: Peter Bagley, Auto Service Technician replied 10 months ago

that's good but don't forget that old fuel has clogged up and varnished components further up line as well so flushing it out won't hurt.

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Customer reply replied 10 months ago
Since it is so late and I'll need to try a few of these suggestions, would it be OK to write back either tomorrow or Monday to let you know if any of this works?
Auto Mechanic: Peter Bagley, Auto Service Technician replied 10 months ago

Have you totally cleaned out the throttle body?

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Auto Mechanic: Peter Bagley, Auto Service Technician replied 10 months ago

yes no problem , when I see your notes I will reply for further suggestions.

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Customer reply replied 10 months ago
I have only cleaned it by spraying through it while it is attached to the car. I think I've flushed out since I've had the whole fuel line out of the car.
Auto Mechanic: Peter Bagley, Auto Service Technician replied 10 months ago

after doing those things let me know tomorrow and we can proceed .

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Customer reply replied 10 months ago
While the line was out of the car, I sprayed cleaner through all the fuel lines and blew them out with air.
Customer reply replied 10 months ago
OK. We'll see what happens.
Customer reply replied 10 months ago
Over the weekend Doug disconnected the MAF sensor and started the car. It died right away. Therefore I am assuming that it is not the MAF sensor.
Customer reply replied 10 months ago
In order to look at it more carefully the car needs to be moved. We'll get back to you on other info.
Auto Mechanic: Peter Bagley, Auto Service Technician replied 10 months ago

very well.

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Customer reply replied 10 months ago
1. Air leak as an option; should this cause the car to not run such as to remove PCV valve (cause the car to starve for gas then die)? When I spoke with tech Ray months prior on this same issue, I told him by lifting the intake plenum from the block (causing massive intake leak) the car would run. I had not mentioned this to you because it just seemed to confuse people.
2. What is the wire going into the ECM which would need to be grounded to the engine to see if it will make the car receive gas and run?
3. Where is the position of the ground on chasse which would ground the fuel pump?
4. Does the info I have given you tell you the fuel pressure is too low? Are we concluding this may be because the computer is signaling to make the pressure low?
Customer reply replied 10 months ago
This morning I have it backed onto a ramp at a 9 degree angle and it started, but when I hit the gas it cuts out. In the past after having the injectors out and cleaning them it did not hesitate or stall.
Customer reply replied 10 months ago
I have found one ground wire in back cargo space , driver's side of wagon. I disconnected the wire. It was not corroded. I did polish up the connection, but did not reconnect. I then unplugged the wire jack from the fuel tank and did a continuity test. (Test 1 just to test the meter with meter set at RX1, needle goes to 2 when I put the meters plus wire to meters com wire.) Test 2: Using jumper wire connected to the ground and connecting plus to plug for fuel pump socket 1- wire black and yellow - meter reads 7. Test 3: Plus wire to socket 2 - a brown wire - no reading. Test 4: Plus wire to socket 3 - purple wire - needle reads 100. Test 5: Plus wire to socket 4 - black wire - needle reads 5.
I have checked and seen that the O2 sensor is not grounded to the manifold. This is as far as I can go at this time.
Auto Mechanic: Peter Bagley, Auto Service Technician replied 10 months ago

Aw this gets more interesting , the part you mentioned about lifting the intake causing a air leak or leaner condition. Have you pulled a spark plug out to see if they are burning ritch? If so then I would check to see if the ground strap going from the body to the exhaust is either not attached or missing.this makes it look like the oxy sensors are not working and can give you a faulty diagnosis replacing the sensors when they are not the problem. You can make a ground up with a heavy gauged wire and attatch it from any clean area or bolt on the exhaust to the body anywhere. the closer to the sensor the better though. iT WOULD BE BENIFICIAL TO HAVE IT ON A SCANNER AT THIS TIME TO READ LIVE DATA AND SEE WHAT THE READINGS ARE.

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Customer reply replied 10 months ago
I'm just transporting the information. Doug will check this out tomorrow and get back again. Thank you.
Auto Mechanic: Peter Bagley, Auto Service Technician replied 10 months ago

keep me informed

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Customer reply replied 10 months ago
I checked the first spark plug, plug wire prong came out when I pulled it. The plug gap was full of junk. I had replaced the plugs when I started and replaced again just now. I pulled the next plug. The plug was wet, I thought it was oily, but it dried up today. Maybe it was gas (I can't smell). I tried to pull the O2 sensor to check ground but it's frozen in, the socket just jumps on it, so I took jumper/booster cable and hooked between the fire wall and O2 sensor then I tried starting after I hooked the fuel pump back up and it starts, but dies right off in about 2 seconds. It acts like there's no fuel. I did not hook to the manifold out of fear that the bolts would break. I could hook to intake manifold if you still think it's necessary.
Customer reply replied 10 months ago
we have done the starter fluid in the intake. I have connected the ground wire to the fire wall and manifold, but still no change. I checked spark with a spark tester with and adjustable prong set to recommended gap and there is a blue spark. Because the problem seems to improve after the car is setting I took the old pump/sending unit and put it into a bucket with gas and hooked up the fuel line and plugged in the power connector. This made no change. The car starts up strong and runs for 2-3 seconds and then dies. One more question though, this car lines have been flushed. It always seems to temporarily correct the problem when I clean out the inlet side of injectors though I did not see much when I did this the last time. On the fuel line that feeds just before it connects to the fuel rail there is a round disk which if I took apart, would probably never go together again. I don't know what this unit is and I cannot purchase this nor the fuel line. I have wondered in the past if it could be the problem. Can you tell me anything about this? Is it needed, what is it and am I right that it is not serviceable.
Auto Mechanic: Peter Bagley, Auto Service Technician replied 10 months ago

just in case you did it wrong

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Auto Mechanic: Peter Bagley, Auto Service Technician replied 10 months ago
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Auto Mechanic: Peter Bagley, Auto Service Technician replied 10 months ago
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Auto Mechanic: Peter Bagley, Auto Service Technician replied 10 months ago

again covering all aspects of that trouble code you can make up some temporary ground wires with a length of wire and alligator clips on both ends to attach to exhaust and body and from engine to body to try.

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Customer reply replied 10 months ago
Will we be able to do a vacuum test when the car only runs for a couple of seconds at a time?
Customer reply replied 10 months ago
after cleaning the maf, what is an acceptable OHM reading between which wires if there are more than two for this vehicle?
Customer reply replied 9 months ago
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. I had fallen and broken a rib. I did not clean the Mass Airflow Sensor. You were right. I was cleaning the throttle body, therefore I found two sensors on the throttle body. I removed the first one and it didn't look like the MAS, turned out to be air control valve. The screws broke off, so I had to vise grip it back on. I got small vise grips at Tractor Supply. The other connector hooks into the shaft of the butterfly so I am assuming it to be a throttle position sensor. I have nothing I can look up in to see and the parts store has no listing for a Mass Airflow Sensor on this '91 model. Am I to understand that this car should not run if it sucks air by the air filter? Air filter canister is in rough shape. Please check carefully before answering if we are working on 2 different systems we'll be wasting our time. Thank you.
Auto Mechanic: Peter Bagley, Auto Service Technician replied 9 months ago

yes your correct if that hose from the air filter box to the throttle body is cracked or broken it may stall or die. I would like to physically see this to make any further assessments so because of this I will opt out so another may have a different point of view . So I wish you good luck.

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