I would like to know if we can refuse the hospital request…

I am sorry to hear this.

So if the hospital says he is stable and doesn't need medical care they will not keep him and if they do they will charge him or you room fees and other fees and not have any of this covered by OHIP.

You should ask for the staff doctor. There is some staff at the hospital even on Saturday no matter what they tell you.

Tell the doctor and charge nurse that if they remove his restraint so a home will agree to take him and he harms himself you will sue them.

On Monday demand to speak to the director and make it clear that if the home won't take him with restraints they have to keep him or find another home since he will die if they remove the restraints and make it clear if necessary you will seek a court order on an emergency basis.

If you are aggressive enough you will get most of what you want but you won't get free room and care if they do find a home to take him to because he has no right to remain in the hospital when it is no longer medically necessary.

Do you see what I mean?

You do have the option of taking him home and getting private caregivers. You will also be able to get some help for free from CCAC. This will include people coming into the home as well as free equipment for the home.

If that will work ask to speak to a social worker.

Please feel free to post back with any follow-up questions you may have. If you don't have any then I hope I have earned a 5 star rating but if you don't feel that I have please don't hesitate to reply back and let me know what more I can do to assist you. Finally, please know that even after you rate me I will be here for you and you can ask follow-up questions if you think of them later on at no further charge of course.

I provide a full and complete response 4 minutes after you said OKay.

Here it is again:

No I provided a full answer twice.

Can you see this reply?

But you just said no so you must have seen my question.

Are you on a computer?

Can you scroll up?

There is a long answer, twice.

I will copy and paste it again. I did that yesterday later in the day when you asked where the answer is.

No because I don't work for the site.

I will send you one paragraph at a time starting now.

I am sorry to hear this.

So if the hospital says he is stable and doesn't need medical care they will not keep him and if they do they will charge him or you room fees and other fees and not have any of this covered by OHIP.

Did you see this first paragraph?

Is I will just break it up and send the answer like this. This has never happened before so I am not sure what is wrong.

You should ask for the staff doctor. There is some staff at the hospital even on Saturday no matter what they tell you.

Tell the doctor and charge nurse that if they remove his restraint so a home will agree to take him and he harms himself you will sue them.

On Monday demand to speak to the director and make it clear that if the home won't take him with restraints they have to keep him or find another home since he will die if they remove the restraints and make it clear if necessary you will seek a court order on an emergency basis.

If you are aggressive enough you will get most of what you want but you won't get free room and care if they do find a home to take him to because he has no right to remain in the hospital when it is no longer medically necessary.

Do you see what I mean?

You do have the option of taking him home and getting private caregivers. You will also be able to get some help for free from CCAC. This will include people coming into the home as well as free equipment for the home.

If that will work ask to speak to a social worker.

Please feel free to post back with any follow-up questions you may have. If you don't have any then I hope I have earned a 5 star rating but if you don't feel that I have please don't hesitate to reply back and let me know what more I can do to assist you. Finally, please know that even after you rate me I will be here for you and you can ask follow-up questions if you think of them later on at no further charge of course.

That is not true. They will charge for all the services if they provide them and they will charge at the hospital rate because your father is taking up a bed.

No there is no document.

I think you have to switch to a laptop or computer and then you can attach a document for me to see.

Yes. But let me finish reading it.

I read this so if this is still correct you will be billed the daily non-ohip rate and then can refuse to pay it and let them sue your father because they do actually bill the non-ohip rate according to my daughter and son-in-law who are hospital physicians in Toronto (not at your father's hospital).

There is no way your father can live out his remaining days in a hospital if he is expected to live for some time. It is not conceivable. But you may be able to keep him in the hospital until a bed opens up in an adequate nursing home.

This is very hard to read.

But what I think you are talking about is what your rights and obligations are with respect to your rather and what his rights are with respect to you.

It is not saying that if you think your father would not want to go into a home or if you think it is not best for your father to go into a home you can tell the hospital he cannot go into a home. Your rights and obligations as substitute decision maker relate to you and your father.

So you are not supposed to put him in a home if you know he would not want that or if you think it is not best for him.

That doesn't give you any rights with the hospital. It means get him care in his home if that is what he needs to avoid a home. It doesn't mean he lives in a hospital.

Do you see the difference?

You can get him care in his home if he can afford.

If not he will not be able to live in the hospital for the rest of his life. You have to come to terms with that.

There is no way to keep someone who doesn't mean medical care living in a hospital and in fact it's likely the most dangerous place for him to be considering the superbugs that patients catch. It is generally most people's goals to get their family member out of the hospital as soon as possible.

You would need to retain a lawyer that specializes in health law to take this on.

I don't know what they will do.

They could get a court order.

The director can step in and say they are assuming the role as guardian for a temporary time.

They could bring in the Public Guardian and Trustee.

Eventually.

They are simply not going to keep him in the hospital. So you can buy more time and also speak to the social worker tomorrow.

You can, as I said earlier, speak to the director about the restraints. He cannot be at risk for harm because they want a nursing home to take him of course.

I am so sorry you are stuck like this.

Just so you know, I understand how you feel because I lived a good part of it. My father had a series of strokes and also ended up with dementia and a peg tube.

Fortunately, he had the funds to pay for care at home. We had a live in caregiver who slept days and was up all night during the week. We had a second caregiver who had been a nurse back home and cared for him during the week. Then we had a series of caregivers who were part of the day time caregiver's family who covered the 24 hours a day on the weekends.

I cannot count the number of times he pulled his tube out and the number of times we were taking him by ambulance to put a hospital to put it back at first but as time went on he must have gotten used to it and stopped doing that. He lived for 5 years with the tube and to some extent he had a quality of life that was worth living. He passed away just before he turned 80.

We also had CCAC send in people to help with occupational therapy and to help shower him all for free.

We were able to get a wheel chair, the things we needed for the feeding tube etc from them.

So I understand fully. It's terrifying and so sad.

My heart goes out to all of you.

I do that all the time!

You are very welcome.

Please be sure to rate me before you leave the site so that I can receive credit for my work.

Thanks and take good care.

Thanks very much but I was actually hoping you were coming back to tell me how things were going.

Please do let me know when you know how this is all being resolved.

Thanks again.

It's not great and they if your father dies they will sue the estate so that is the last thing any of you need. But it's not good for him at that hospital. She should be made to see that.

I cannot answer all this here. I also cannot get paid directly from you as that would breach the rules of the site.

But really your sister needs to consult with a lawyer face to face at this point.

Her demands are not likely going to be met at all but if a lawyer writes a letter it could buy you all a bit more time.

But your sister is not accepting the fact that the hospital has decided that your father no longer needs to be hospitalized and yet she is asking for more resources for free. When many of us have people in the hospital we love we also don't think that there are enough nurses and so we pay to hire someone to sit with our family members at night. In fact I would never have any family member stay over night in any hospital without hiring someone privately for them.

The hospital provides a sitter for urgent acute matters. It cannot go of for long and they won't do it. That is not what a hospital if for.

For sure anyone can get a second opinion but your sister should both start making arrangements for where you father should be moved to now and also can see a lawyer face to face.

She can contact the Law Society and use their Lawyer Referral Service. She will be given the name of a lawyer and can consult with the lawyer and the first half hour will be free.

The number is:

1-***-***-**** or(###) ###-####(within the GTA)

But really and as you know I've been where you are (and have been several times in fact) your sister is not going to succeed in getting any of what she is wanting for your father. She is not being realistic. A hospital is not for long term care. It is for acute medical care only.

I sincerely ***** ***** helps a bit.