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Dan
Dan, Technician
Category: Buick
Satisfied Customers: 24574
Experience:  Independent Shop Experience, 2 Year Automotive Diploma, & Access to Information Database
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Doing water pump on '92 Le Sabre; torque-axis mount will not

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Doing water pump on '92 Le Sabre; torque-axis mount will not separate from engine bracket. No room to pry because A.C. lines will be damaged. Are you aware of sverely tight fitting mounts?
JA: Do you have the torque specs?
Customer: I have the factory books, but I already have all pertinent bolts out, and the mount should lift free of the engine bracket which will then have space for removal.
JA: Are you fixing your Space yourself? What have you tried so far?
Customer: Fixing my...space?
JA: Anything else you want the mechanic to know before I connect you?
Customer: No, thanks---I'll try someone else... sorry to bother you.

Hello, my name is ***** ***** I'm here to help get your problem solved.

Use a punch and a hammer to knock it loose, let me know how it goes. Thanks.

Customer: replied 2 months ago.
Sorry to run out on you, Dan, but I was running out of daylight...still no progress, and I retightened the engine bracket to give better resistance to the hammering, but no cigar. I was hoping to learn about some fabrication that will spread the sides of the bracket a few thousandths, releasing the mount even momentarily. No ideas?
Customer: replied 2 months ago.
My name is*****; I guess a phone call is unnecessary, anyway, as hammer-and-punch is pretty fundamental...but there's no simple way to apply force upward, as any hammering will work downward, and the mount is resting on the body side rail(?) and has nowhere to go if not up.

Have you tried to pound it down? Once it is loose you should be able to pull it out with hand. I'm assuming you are using at least a 3lb hammer?

Customer: replied 2 months ago.
Is that you offering the phone call, or JustAnswer?

That is Justanswer, sorry about that. It is annoying to me too and I wish they would stop pushing it so hard.

Customer: replied 2 months ago.
Forgot to answer; I'm using a 4-lb maul and, in this case, the prongs(?) of a tie-rod fork.

Can you take a couple pictures for me? There is a little notch on top side of water pump you should be able to pry on.

Customer: replied 2 months ago.
Pics are doable, but I have the new pump handy...

Take a couple pictures for me of what you are dealing with, it has been awhile since I've had to work on this exact vehicle. Thanks.

Customer: replied 2 months ago.
there's a thick tab to the left of the top bolt boss...pertinent?

Yes, that is the tab you should be able to pry on.

Customer: replied 2 months ago.
I'll run out and have a look...back in a few.....

Ok, thanks.

Customer: replied 2 months ago.
Scratches head) Hmmm...the current pump doesn't have that tab. The Gates #42095 I'm holding does, but either way, how will that help remove the torque-axis mount?

Are you trying to remove part that connects to engine or part that connects to frame? Or are you trying to separate the two parts?

Customer: replied 2 months ago.
Separate the two parts; it doesn't seem to be corroded or anything, but almost like it's pressed together, which is extremely unlikely...
The car belonged to a friend who passed from spinal cancer, and he did this job 5 or 6 years ago. He never gave details, but he was extremely p-o'ed when he got done. I wonder if this is why?

Manual says to use engine lift to pull up on engine, if you don't have a engine lift you can use a jack on bottom side of engine to lift it up. Let me know if you have tried either of those, sorry to hear about friend. Let me know, thanks.

Customer: replied 2 months ago.
I used a small 2.5-ton floor jack and lumber to support the engine (could have used a lifting fixture so I could position a good-sized drain pan under the car to catch coolant from the loosened pump---not because of quantity, but to be ready for wherever it chooses to come down---also, I was able to loosen the lower two bolts without the using a fixture, but I don't look forward to tightening them again, only to loosen them yet again, etc.

Good to hear you were able to separate the two parts, let me know if you have more questions. Thanks.

Customer: replied 1 month ago.
Well, the separation hasn't happened yet, Dan, but I appreciate you taking the time to help---and, if I come up with something that works.....well, maybe JustAnswer will relay a message. Thank you again;Gregg P.

I think I misunderstood what you said. You should leave all the bolts in place other then the 1 bolt that connects the two pieces, then jack up engine which should separate them. Let me know how it goes, thanks.

Customer: replied 1 month ago.
If it doesn't buckle the oil pan, it's ingenious! Thanks again!

No problem, another option would be to use a 2x4 cut to length so you can jack up engine directly on mount. Let me know how it turns out, thanks.

Customer: replied 1 month ago.
Will do...that is, if possible. How does JustAnswer handle people who want to get in touch? Do they allow exchanging of email addresses? Moreover, are you amenable to that?

They are actually against us talking outside of the website but you can come back and reply to this link the same way you are now at any time without additional fees so make sure to keep me updated. Thanks.

Dan and other Buick Specialists are ready to help you
Customer: replied 1 month ago.
Well, 10 O'clock AM here in sunny southern Cal, and my doctor's warnings about skin cancer have me back hiding under my roof while I fume about torque-axis engine mounts...I got the mount to move, at least, by putting the box-end of a 15mm wrench onto my breaker bar - it's an adequate fit on half-inch square drive - and let the open end catch the bottom of the engine bracket while I pulled the wrench against the through-bolt tube; it moved quite easily (in one direction, always springing back) and seemed to be saying, WHAT TOOK YA? So, it turns out that the bracket casting has extra metal which shrouds the tube except in the 6:00 - 8:00 area (looking front-to-back) which dictates the only angle from which the mount can enter the bracket..I thought the bit about raising the engine until the PS reservoir touches the cross brace was for access to the lower pair of mount bolts; as it seems that the engine must be lifted so the bracket clears the mount completely, I'm not confident that 'touching' is high enough (I may have to remove the cross brace) but when the sun dips behind the next-door mansion at about 4:00, I'll find out.Haynes manuals used to be good at clarifying ambiguities with pointers, but have since become' just another book'. Have a good Friday.

Feel free to send me some pictures or a short video if you keep ending up running into problems. Thanks.

Customer: replied 1 month ago.
While I do have a digicam and can take photos, videos are yet outside my purview, so here are some photos...the first two illustrate how much higher than just 'touching' I had to lift, hence the removal of the cross brace. The last shows where the A.C. lines are, and the rest should be familiar. For those like me who have never seen something yet, a few more words would save lots of head-scratching...true, Buick publishes for their techs, who probably go to school every time a new tool, procedure, or car model is released - but Haynes used to provide a bit more. Now that they own Chilton (or is it the other way around?) they've ended that.A crew is coming Monday AM to repair the foundation of my house, and they may want to bring equipment or concrete gear up the driveway, so I have one more day in which to finish this water (correction - COOLANT) pump. Should be a piece of cake.Gregg
Customer: replied 1 month ago.
Would have been nice if the photos were uploaded, so try this..False hope; something goofed, so the photos may be some time away......

You can upload picture to another website such as facebook or whatever site you use then send me a link. Otherwise there should be a paperclip icon you can click to upload photos.

There isn't enough room to remove the side of mount that is attached to engine right now? Then with that side removed you should have enough room to access side connected to frame.

Customer: replied 1 month ago.
I lifted bit-by-bit until the frame-half cleared the engine-half, after which the frame-half had room to clear the 12mm stud. There doesn't seem to be a spare quarter-inch anywhereDid the photos get to you?

One of the pictures cam through, can you show me some pictures of the bolt/stud you are still trying to remove?

Customer: replied 1 month ago.
Only one? Does JA impose a limit? (I uploaded seven)Let me go grab a pic while everything's out that's coming out...

You need to upload them separately. I'm going to be getting offline here soon.

Customer: replied 1 month ago.
I uploaded files individually, and not in the folder (been there, done that, learned)The stud in question is above the forward edge of the pump discharge channel

I don't think stud needs to be removed, have you tried to remove water pump without removing stud?

Nevermind, pump has obviously been removed. Why are you trying to remove stud?

Customer: replied 1 month ago.
The pic is of my car - not someone else's - the pump is already out, the hoses are changed, the mount and bracket are cleaned, as the photos would show, had they gotten through. I ask again, is there an upload limit?

It took me a second to realize water pump is already removed, must be getting late. Why are you trying to remove the stud? It seem like you are ready to put water pump back on, install mount, and be good to go?

Customer: replied 1 month ago.
Engine bracket could not be removed from engine because of interference from mount - not enough of stud protruding for double-nutting and removal, but long enough to prevent removal of bracket. Once the mount is jockeyed clear, there is enough room to pull bracket off of stud.
Customer: replied 1 month ago.
Forgot to add, I am not trying to remove the stud.

I'm happy to hear it was figured out and you were able to get it removed. I'm getting offline, let me know how it turns out or if you need anything. Thanks again and have a good night.

Customer: replied 1 month ago.
Good Night, and thanks, Dan.