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1991 150 fuel prob is Tam available?

1991 Johnson 150 fuel prob...
1991 Johnson 150 fuel prob is Tam available?
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Answered in 1 hour by:
3/9/2018
Shane Creekmore
Shane Creekmore, Marine Mechanic
Category: Boat
Satisfied Customers: 314
Experience: I have over 20 years experience in the marine industry as a mechanic and powerhead tech at a major re-manufacturing company
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I dont think he is online atm. If you are in a hurry I can help
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Customer reply replied 5 months ago
We can try, I feel I have a fuel prob and know that this may take a few if not more reply’s along with few days for me to be able try ang do what you suggest. In saying that, are you willing to do this and see it to the end. I had dealt with Tam before and he did good with me. I will go ahead and tell you my problem so we will have that part out of the way. Here is the model number, Tj150gleis. It had sit for a few years or so and had ran good prior to sitting. I knew from past experience that the carbs would have some oil in them. I installed new kits in each one and imstalled them in original spots. Compression is 90 psi across the board and spark on all cylinders. The vro oil side has been bypassed. Running fresh 50:1 fuel in it along with new fuel filter. It seems to idle with a miss and gets worse about 2k. Thanks.
Sure I can help you through it. Let me pull up your model real quick
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Do you feel comfortable pulling the carbs off and cleaning them or do you want to try and clean them out the easy way?
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Customer reply replied 5 months ago
The carbs have been pulled, cleaned, and new kits installed already and new spark plugs also. Didn’t know there was a easier way. Besides I had fuel leaking behind one of the carbs at first inspection of engine. I knew that the o ring gaskets can get a flat spot after time and with it have sat for the time I pretty well knew it would need all the carbs cleaned and new kits.
The small air jet inlets on the front of the carbs. Did you pull them out and clean the orifice good?
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I think on that motor there are 2 for each carb and they are different sizes
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Also with the motor off push the throttle habdle to wide open and look in the throats of the carbs and be sure they are all open the same amount
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Customer reply replied 5 months ago
the throttle plate looked good. I did not remove the air jets but did flush and cleaned and ran a small non abrasive wire through each.
Did you check your fuel for water?
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Also with the motor running if you squeeze the primer bulb does it idle better
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Customer reply replied 5 months ago
Brand new non ethanol fuel, I did squeeze primer bulb multiple times to see if had fuel leaking anywhere, can’t really say it did better. I did squeeze a very small amount of fuel from a bottle and it did pick up then on a few cylinders. I went ahead and started pulling the carbs again and to double check float height and drop. Do you have a part number for a rebuild kit for the fuel side of vro. The oil side has been bypass so no use doing anything there. Normally when one has been sitting for anytime I rebuild fuel pump also. I will keep you posted, if you think of anything that I’m not, drop me a line. Thanks
I do have the number wrote on my tool box but it will be 10 minutes or so
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its just a diaphragm
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Customer reply replied 5 months ago
I was thinking there was more than that. The book is showing a float and needle valve. Is there a plane Jane fuel pump to replace whole system that would keep up with the fuel demand of 6 carbs at WOT?
The fuel pump mounts on the vst but it will all come off the motor at the same time. You may be able to just take the top of the vst off and clean the seat out. If there is a little trash or water in it, it won't supply enough fuel and will run bad. Also if you take the hose off the block going into the vst and squeeze the primer bulb. If fuel comes out the pulse hose you will know there is a hole in your diaphragm
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You could possibly go with a electric fuel pump but it would take a lot of modifications
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Customer reply replied 5 months ago
Is there a kit to rebuild the vst, pulse pump, and fuel pump?
The fuel pump and pulse pump is the same. The vst you have to buy all the stuff seperately but usually just needs cleaning
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Customer reply replied 5 months ago
Not finished with the project, will rate when it is fixed
No problem. Just let me know if you need help with anything
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Customer reply replied 5 months ago
Re installed carbs after adjusting some floats. Started right up and idled pretty decent on the hose. Put it in the lake and idle ok in neutral but bogged down in gear and wouldn’t take throttle. I squirted fuel down each carb while it was in gear and 135 bogged down more and 246 picked up. Any ideas as to why. I’m trying to send you a short video of what it acted like
Customer reply replied 5 months ago
Are you there? I would like to get this solved ASAP and move on to my other projects. I sent a another response yesterday afternoon and still have not received a reply. Please advise. Thanks
Tan
Tan, MerCruiser Certified Technician
Category: Boat
Satisfied Customers: 11,427
Experience: 40 yrs. experience with complete engine repairs both inboard/outboard and MerCruiser Certified Technician.
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Hi, John Tan here. If squirting fuel in the carbs helps you have one of 2 possible issues an air leak or clogged high-speed jet.

Now have you replaced the o-rings on the balance tubes? This is where air can get into the fuel mix causing symptoms like you are having.

I see that you have rebuilt the carbs so that leaves air as the most likely cause.

The balance tubes # 39 are on the side of intakes.http://www.marineengine.com/parts/johnson-evinrude-parts.php?year=1991&hp=150&model=TJ150GLEIS&manufacturer=Johnson&section=Carburetor+And+Intake+Manifold

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Customer reply replied 5 months ago
I have not replaced the o rings nor the gaskets behind the carb manifolds. Should I replace them also? Thanks, ***** ***** my first choice but was told you wasn’t online.

I would. These o-rings gaskets have a tendency to leak after sitting.

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Customer reply replied 5 months ago
Thanks I will get them ordered. I also noticed the vst nipple(###) ###-####leaks whenever pressure is applied to the hose causing movement. Does not appear to be leaking while at rest and primer bulb pumped to the max. Would that be norm or is that a sign of age? Thanks

That is not normal. Replace the hose. The fuel hose becomes very stiff and can cause leaks. When you have a leak under pressure from the primer bulb you will have an air leak when the VRO pump is pumping fuel to carbs.

This could cause some of the symptoms you are having. Anytime you have a fuel leak it is a potential for air leaks also. Air leaks cause a lean fuel condition which starves the engine for fuel.

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Customer reply replied 5 months ago
I got the parts In and installed them this morning, in the water it won’t stay idling in neutral unless I keep activating the enrichner valve. I braught it back and ran it on the hose to see if I could see anything. It would idle,but not like it should. 2,4, and 6 still picks up when squirting fuel in them. Going to pull again and make sure spaghetti gasket did not roll on me. Just wanted to give you a update. Thanks
Customer reply replied 5 months ago
The spaghetti gaskit behind the carb manifold was ok, is there anything else I need to look at before putting it back together? Thanks
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Did you check the o-rings # 45 in the balance tube # 39?

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Customer reply replied 5 months ago
I replaced all the o rings on both balance tube and new spaghetti gasket on bothe sides of throttle bodies. The idle jets are the same oem that it came with and it did run before it was parked. I did not change out the leaf stops. It actually ran rougher after replacing the o rings and gaskets. So what is your recommendations at this point? Thanks
When you had the carbs off did you verify the tubes were clear? Your symptoms are lean fuel condition in the idle circuit. The side cover on the carbs are for the idle circuit. In that circuit you have 1 or 2 small tubes that stick down into the float bowl for fuel suuply at idle, if a tube is clogged the engine will not idle. Also verify that the jets are in correct location. If the idle jets are reversed this will cause idle issue as well.
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Customer reply replied 5 months ago
the tubes was cleaned, and passages blowed out. Idle jets was done the same. I had used a small copper wire to run through as I was cleaning. What was #45 concern? Thanks
45 was referencing the o-rings on the balance tube. Did you verify the idle jets were in correct location? You have 2 jets per carb if in wrong location can cause idle issue. Since one bank of cylinders are affected try swapping csrbs from one side to the other. We are running out of things to check. It is a fuel starvation issue. This means to much air or not enough fuel.
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Customer reply replied 5 months ago
The link you sent didn’t have a #45 in the part list. It shows them in parts diagram but not on list. If I remember right I went to boats dot net and looked them up and they was the same part number as the o rings for the fuel manifold. Can you verify that. Also the idle jets wasn’t ever removed on cleaned by spray, copper wire and air. Thanks
The balance tube is #39 it is different from the fuel tube. The balance tube is the tibe at the front of diagram.
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Customer reply replied 5 months ago
but the link you gave me did not have a parts number for 45 on its part list. So I went to a another link and and it showed the part number for 45 to be the same as the o rings for 39 and that is what I used. After you mentioned the engine needing more fuel or a air leak I went back into the carbs on that bank and was looking at the idle circuit and noticed that the idle circuit tube at the bottom of the bowl was still dirty. After using high air pressure I got them cleaned, with one of them having a lot of that dried oil in it. Needless to say I went through all six again and blew them all out with high air psi. I had it back in the water and it would idle decent in gear, but still did not want to take too much throttle. After a bit I started to use the enrichner valve and notice fuel leaking out of the hose coming off the block that runs to the vapor pump. Is that because of too much fuel coming in from enrich valve and running out or because the vapor pump has failed. Is there a kit to rebuild all of the components on the fuel vro except for oil pump or do you have to buy individually. Thanks, ***** ***** getting closer I hope.
Customer reply replied 5 months ago
Well, the fuel leak was actually from the primer hose. Took it back and still had no throttle and a lil rougher idle. When giving it what throttle it would take roughly and hitting primer valve it acted like it was getting too much fuel,

Did you remove the high-speed jets from the bottom of the float bowl and clean them?

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Customer reply replied 5 months ago
that shouldn’t be the problem, I blew them out again when I found the idle circuit fuel tube in the bottom of the bowls clogged. When I had it running in gear with low throttle and engaged the primer valve it should have picked up some if it was needing more fuel shouldn’t it? I even turned the valve on the primer valve manually so there would be more fuel while under a load while it was running. It actually stumbled more and died a few times. Also the cylinders did not pick up when I tried squirting gas in the carbs and it would start reving up to a very high rpm at start up after it died and I tried to restart it. Had to shut it off a few times because it was such a high rpm. I haven’t really tried anything on the vro side other than replacing a o ring on the nipple we had discussed earlier and checking for fuel in the line from pump to block, which did not have fuel in it. I checked the valve for blockage also. Please advise, thanks
Have you tred squeezing the primer bulb when throttling up under a load? This will tell us if the VRO is a problem. Also check the spark on all cylinders with a timing light under a load.
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Customer reply replied 5 months ago
I did squeeze primer bulb while under a load with no results. The high revving was being caused by the throttle blade linkage had came off and had throttle plates 1/4 open. I rechecked spark this morn. Ran it on the hose and checked timing and it was close to tdc at idle at about 1000 rpm. I know the rpm will be higher out of the water and no load, but I would have thought the timing would be closer to 6 before tdc. One of my problem is having to use a public ramp and others needing in or out before I can do trouble shooting, today is out of the question on putting it in water. Please answer these questions.
#1 if under a load and not taking throttle, when primer valve is activated, it should gain rpm?
#2 the timing should be close to 6 before tdc while idling in gear with a timing light?
#3 is there a way to do a sync and link without the ignition analyzer?
#4 while in the water in gear would it hurt to unplug the timing sensor to see if anything changes, and is there any way to check sensor with out the special ignition anylizer?
I also checked each cylinder with light and verified spark while on the hose
I haven’t used light while under a load. I may not get back to it a for a few days because of lake activity and the a forecast of heavy rain. If you would be so kind to answer the above questions and look over my last trouble shooting this morn and give me any more ideas to do other than the timing light under a load. I plan on trying that soon as I can. I also requested and paid for a call, but it said you was unavailable? Thanks
Customer reply replied 5 months ago
More to question 1. It should gain rpm if it is needing more fuel? Thanks

1)The engine will only gain rpms when pushing the primer if you have a fuel issue. I think you found the fuel issue so the engine stalling when pushing primer is normal.

2) The timing should be higher at idle in the water.

3) No, you have to have the analyzer.

4) I don't know about disconnecting. The sensor can only be tested with an analyzer.

If you had a fuel issue pushing the primer will make engine speed up. I think you eliminated the fuel issue when you found the clogged idle tube.

I'm thinking we have a timing issue since you have spark on all cylinders. Try this with the engine in water connect the timing light to # 1 and check timing when throttling up. Id the timing advancing?

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Customer reply replied 5 months ago
Ok, I will check the timing in the water idling in gear,( should be 6 atdc) then I will try some throttle to see if it has advanced. Hopefully this can happen tomorrow. Thanks

Ok, keep me posted.

Tan
Tan, MerCruiser Certified Technician
Category: Boat
Satisfied Customers: 11,427
Experience: 40 yrs. experience with complete engine repairs both inboard/outboard and MerCruiser Certified Technician.
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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
Hey Tan, just got back from the lake. Had spark on all cylinders while in gear at idle. It was hard to say the exact timing because of being out side where it was so bright. It appeared to be running about 15 to 12 btdc if the neg numbers are to represent atdc and was advancing. I went ahead and throttled up some and it was taking it and then picked up like you would think it should with rpm. It was on trailer and I didn’t have a shop tac to verify the accuracy of rpm. At this point I think it is in need of a sync and link and timing udjustment with engine analyzer. I will have to get one ordered and go through the sync and link steps. I will let you know when I get that done. I apologize for this being drawn out, but do appreciate your time and effort. I’ve worked on the pre 90’s evinrude and Johnson but these are knew to me. Makes a feller appreciate the newer efi and four strokes even more. Thanks a million.

Ok, John, When you are throttling up did you happen to squeeze the primer bulb? Could we have a fuel restriction on the boat side fuel system? The other option is to run the engine on a different fuel source like an auxiliary fuel tank.

Thanks and no problem I would like to get this issues resolved also.

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
I have been running it on a shop fuel tank all this time. Non ethanol. I didn’t squeeze the primer bulb this time because it was actually taking throttle. I had tried that multiple times before and it would pump up hard but didn’t seem to make a diff. Lil flat at idle and close to mid range but then done ok with more throttle. It is a huge improvement on runibility though. Once I get the tools to sync and link I will try again and see how she does. Is there a reason you was asking about squeezing the bulb? The neg numbers on flywheel is atdc? Thanks

If the VRO pump isn't delivering enough fuel by squeezing the primer bulb you are helping the pump.

Numbers to the left of TDC are BFTDC and numbers to the right of TDC are ATDC.

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Customer reply replied 4 months ago
With odd bank being on stbd side and considered right and pointer being on tdc, how would that relate with the atdc and btdc? Thanks

The number to the left STBD of TDC on the flywheel is BTDC and the numbers to the left port side are after TDC. This is standing in front of the engine looking aft.

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