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Are you a Suzuki outboard expert? I do not want to type all…

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Are you a Suzuki...

Are you a Suzuki outboard expert?

Mechanic's Assistant: Sometimes boat issues seem like they'll be really complicated, but end up being easy to fix. The Marine Mechanic I'm going to connect you with knows all the tricks and shortcuts. Tell me a bit more about what's going on so the Marine Mechanic can help you best.

I do not want to type all of this out unless I know the person I am talking to has dealt with Suzuki vapor lock / no start after running situations for a pair on 225's.

Mechanic's Assistant: Is there anything else the Marine Mechanic should be aware of?

Suzuki's procedure to fix this problem.

Submitted: 7 months ago.Category: Boat
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Answered in 10 hours by:
9/27/2017
Marine Mechanic: Matthew John, Marine Mechanic replied 7 months ago
Matthew John
Matthew John, Marine Mechanic
Category: Boat
Satisfied Customers: 69
Experience: Marine Technician, Certified in MERCRUISER AND MERCURY OUTBOARDS (Current), EVINRUDE, SUZUKI, YAMAHA, HONDA.
Verified

Hi there, I am a Suzuki Marine Expert and have strong fault finding experience for the whole Suzuki range up to 300AP models.

I am ready to assist you and can provide you with service information and screen shots for procedures, diagrams, specs etc.

Let me know MODEL and YEAR of the unit(s), and the details of the problems, what you have tried already, engine hours, last service and fault history, any check engine warnings...

Regards,

Matt

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Marine Mechanic: Matthew John, Marine Mechanic replied 7 months ago

Also, do you have one or two fuel tanks and do you have a good quality fuel from a known distributer? How many hours of engine operation has past since the fault's became present? When I supply a screen shot for the procedure of checking fuel pump pressure at the High Pressure Fuel Rail... You will need to purchase or get hold of a fuel pressure gauge that has a standard shrader valve fitting/attachment. If you suspect at all there is something up with your fuel delivery system, e.g, Hoses, fittings, filters, breathers... You can substitute which a portable tank/supply, go for a run and see if the problem still exists... Things like this, I am just letting you know in preparation for you before we can begin process for you.

Thanks!

Matt

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Customer reply replied 7 months ago
Good morning and thank you for responding. We bought this 2012 Glastream 278 used in July 2013 with a pair of 2012 DF225's on it. The port engine is a DF225Z. We live in northern Indiana where it gets little use. We haul it to Key West in the winter and use it for about 2 months in the winter. The problem occurs when the temperature outside is mid 70's or higher. When the engines are cool they start and run fine for as long as you want. When you stop for a 1/2 hour or so they start right back up and will put the boat on plane for app 1000 feet and then loose power and die. Then they will not start. If you squeeze the primer bulbs repeatedly over a period of time-sometimes as much as 15 minutes or more then they will start and die, start and die, start and die and then finally start to take off. After you get them to take off they run fine again. It did this the first year we had it and has been getting worse since.
The boat has 1 fuel tank. The engines have 2 new high pressure and 2 new low pressure or lift pumps on them. Both engines have new water separating fuel filters and fuel filters before the lift pumps. The vapor separators are clean and have never had any water in them. The evaporator purge valves are working ok. I even by passed them by disconnecting the hoses and going straight to the intakes from the vapor separator. Fuel pressure runs a little over 35lbs until they start to die and then it goes to 0. I have the original Suzuki service manual. There are no horns or codes displayed on my Garmin when these events take place. Engine hours are a little over 400 per tack read out when keyed on. I have never read the engines with a CDS because I never felt it was a readable problem. Some problems can be seen on the computer and some can not. I have had a couple of overheats over the years while running around the Keys. Never anything serious as the engines go into reduced RPM'S instantly. Stop and restart and everything seems OK. Never have replaced the impellers and I know there due but feel they are not part of the problem since the engines run cool in open water at all RPM's.
The boats fuel system requires less than 2lbs vacuum to pull fuel from the tank to the engine. I have installed a clear fuel line from the boats water separator and watched the fuel when running. There are no air bubbles. When the engines will not start I can watch the fuel in the clear fuel line pulse a little when the lift pump is trying to pull fuel but it does not reach the lift pump. The lift pump is getting battery voltage and running on and off but just not getting the fuel on past it into the rest of the fuel system. Like something is blocking it. If you leave them sit and cool off they will then start and run again. I did notice that the vapor separator seemed warm to the touch yesterday and opened the Philips screw on top thinking maybe it was vapor locked but it did not make any difference. It seems like in the past this problem did not occur when its cooler outside but I have not ran it lately when its cool to confirm this recently. If the fuel coolers were plugged up could this be part of the problem? I have not got into them yet. There is a 3 way "t" in the fuel system they call a check valve which has a vacuum test in the manual. That tested OK.
I have read about similar problems on Suzuki's parts forum where 1 guy said Suzuki installed a electric fuel pump in the boat with a timer wired to the tack the would not let it run for more than 5 seconds with the engine not running when key is on. Also unhappy owners who said Suzuki was not helpful with there problems. I really do not want to add other items in the system unless it is the only fix. So I am wanting to know does Suzuki know of this problem and what do I do next?
Thank you
Dave
Marine Mechanic: Matthew John, Marine Mechanic replied 7 months ago

Hi there! Sorry about the delayed response!

Are you able to Tee into the supply line and measure the vacuum? 2 InHg would be a normal reading at W.O.T.

Regards,

Matt

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Marine Mechanic: Matthew John, Marine Mechanic replied 7 months ago

To be straight up, it sounds like a fuel tank breather problem, but it would be advantageous if we can get a vacuum reading and 4 InHg is the minimum spec after and before the Fuel Filter/ Water Separators, Alternately.

The reason why I would be looking at the Breathers is because I assume each engine has it's own pick-up from the fuel tank. If there is 1 pick-up, right there is your problem and we can go from there... Regardless, there is a COMMON problem here. If you suspect a breather fault, remove the filler caps and take for a run. These engines are Reliable for a couple of thousand hours! I know because I've been servicing commercial operators for years and for both engines to be experiencing the same problem, I can say that your fuel supply is the issue. If you are able to use substitute fuel supply tanks for a test run, you will isolate the problem. You would need to use at least 3/8 I.D fuel hose on each portable fuel tank. As you know from you Garmin Displays, and you fuel Bills, they require high volume/ fuel flow. And.. you will not get any alarms under these type of fuel restriction conditions.

Regards,

Matt

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Customer reply replied 7 months ago
Good morning, I will in the next few days hook up a shop tank with a vacuum gauge and install between the water separating fuel filters on the boat and the lift pump on the engine and go run it. There are 2 fuel lines coming from the boats fuel tank feeding the 2 water separating filters. I can not see how the two fuel lines hook up to the fuel tank. They disappear behind the bulkhead.I am curious-what part of the country having you been working on these engines? Temperature seems to always have an effect rather they do it or not. I will get back to you with the results.
Thank you.
Marine Mechanic: Matthew John, Marine Mechanic replied 7 months ago

Good morning, let us know how you go after running shop tanks! If you are running shop tanks you may not need to use the vacuum gauge. It's just to measure the vacuum when connected to the fuel supply in question. If you can't get a hold of a vacuum gauge, using shop tanks is just the other method for isolating the fault.

I am from Gold Coast on the East Side of Australia, as you know it gets quite hot here and high humidity, but we would never experience high altitudes like you do there. Fuel Injected engines can compensate for less oxygen, but i read that you still may have to use lower pitch props depending on the altitude, but i'm sure that is not an issue for you at the moment...

Once we see if you're running good or not on external tanks we can re-focus our troubleshooting. We can also maybe address your concerns with the VST temperatures.

Regards,

Matt

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Customer reply replied 7 months ago
Hello, Sorry for the delay. Ok - I installed a 3 gallon tank directly to the portside engine bypassing the boats water separating fuel filter using 3/8's clear line with a vacuum gauge installed before the primer bulb. I ran the boat @ W.O.T. and barely had 1 in lb of vacuum. Just for grins I pinched off the hose at idle and watched the vacuum gauge climb to 5 in lbs {then I turned it loose} which verified the lift pump and the vacuum gauge in my mind. I then installed the vacuum gauge back onto the boats port engine's water separating fuel filter and read a vacuum of slightly more than 1 in lb at W.O.T. In my mind this tells me the boats fuel system is not the problem. The temperature has fallen with fall coming on and I have not been able to duplicate the problem. I know as soon as I get it out 20 miles in the Atlantic this February it will do it again. This boat is used only at sea level or slightly above. Never in the mountains.
A few weeks ago when it was in the 80's and I had the port engine running on the boats tank with clear hose. When the engines would not start I could watch the fuel in the clear fuel line pulse a little when the lift pump is trying to pull fuel but it would not reach the lift pump. The lift pump is getting battery voltage and running on and off as the ECM tells it to but just not getting the fuel on past it into the rest of the fuel system. Like something is blocking it. If you leave the engines sit and cool off they will then start and run again. I did notice that the vapor separator seemed warm to the touch the last time this occurred. The engines will run 1000-1500 feet depending on throttle settings before they run out of fuel and die. The high pressure gauge reads 36 lbs and then goes to 0 as the engines run out of fuel. To me it seems like the problem is after the lift pump and before the high pressure pump. I guess I need to duplicate the problem again and then take the separator apart and see where the fuel level is in it or if the needle and or float is stuck. What would you do next?
Thank you, Dave
Customer reply replied 7 months ago
Did you receive my reply above 10/14/17 ?
Thank you,
Dave
Customer reply replied 7 months ago
Should of been 10/04/17
Marine Mechanic: Matthew John, Marine Mechanic replied 7 months ago

Hi there, it looks like you have eliminated the fuel supply from being the problem... That actually leaves me a bit stumped as to what is causing BOTH engines to be dropping off in fuel pressure like that. Yes, I would be having a look inside the VST's and checking for a blockage or air leak of some sort. What makes it a bit harder in troubleshooting is that you would normally be able to swap components from one engine to the other to see if the problem follows a faulty component. Another thing to keep in mind is maybe if they have a leaking injector (stuck open), that is unlikely but just to be aware of. After you have checked the VST's and all is well, you could perform a cylinder drop test on each engine, just to confirm they are running on all 6...You would have probably notice if there is a cylinder is down already due to rough running and decrease or variation in Idle rpm.

Let me know if you need further assistance!

Regards,

Matt

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Marine Mechanic: Matthew John, Marine Mechanic replied 7 months ago

Also, i would disconnect the cooling water In and Out hoses to the VST and make sure there is no blockages in the cooling path.

Thanks!

Matt

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Category: Boat
Satisfied Customers: 69
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Experience: Marine Technician, Certified in MERCRUISER AND MERCURY OUTBOARDS (Current), EVINRUDE, SUZUKI, YAMAHA, HONDA.

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